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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 10:10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You folks are naming all the reasons I love Vhaeraun. 
Nah ... never liked him, as he solely comes over as the spoilt-brat sort of chap, only willing to harm his mum and her lot, rather than walk tall on his own.
I dunno... With his goals of getting the drow out from under her and living on the surface, I think he's doing more than being a spoiled brat.
I don't see (and don't play) Vhaeraun as a spoiled brat. (After all with parents like his, how could he be spoilt!)
Vhaeraun's main problem has been getting the drow back on the surface. His other problem has been getting them to act more cohesively. I tend to play Vhaeraun CN, although he'd be fun as a LE god too. Basically, he's a good foil to Lolth.
Vhaeraun and Eilistraee would be better served by putting aside their differences and acting as an alliance. That would be fun. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 11:19:12
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| Point is that while this may be one of Vhaeraun's aims, he and his clergy are hardly portrayed as doing somesuch. (Much like what the novels et al do to Lolth and Kiaransalee, of course.) It's more like Vhaeraunian clergy is running about trying to thwart the Lolthites on the surface and below. Or hunting Eilistraeens. Rather than concentrating on their own affairs, actually going for gender-equality (which they also have de jure in their "dogma", but de facto it is male-ruled from top to bottom) and building their own little "empire". The whole strict religious segregation issue amongst the drow is quite annoying to read, i.e. stereotypes all over again. And if they don't use the religious stuff, they present the males from females troubles or serve the inter-house/school war diet. It is all a kind of simplistic a view for my liking. Hence it was quite interesting to read about those three settlements in the Forest of Mir, one of which apparently wasn't that bothered about religion (or at least no religious dominance was mentioned). Likewise Sshamath, where religion was playing second fiddle. There though, you had the instant swap of power-gender again, with stereotypical wizard-males ruling 90% of the arcane school. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 15:59:33
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It boils down to the over-simplistic representation again. If Vhaeraunite belief is simply a case of being a mirror to Lolthite belief then it fails, simply because it's just a mirror reflection.
As you say, an appealing aspect of Vhaeraunite faith is gender equality. They also accept half-drow too.
If you like the drow and you've been interested in them for a few years then you have two choices:
1. Restrict yourself to canon and grow increasingly depressed.
2. Take some of the canon as a foundation, and develop things in a logical, rewarding direction.
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 17:41:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
It boils down to the over-simplistic representation again. If Vhaeraunite belief is simply a case of being a mirror to Lolthite belief then it fails, simply because it's just a mirror reflection.
As you say, an appealing aspect of Vhaeraunite faith is gender equality. They also accept half-drow too.
If you like the drow and you've been interested in them for a few years then you have two choices:
1. Restrict yourself to canon and grow increasingly depressed.
2. Take some of the canon as a foundation, and develop things in a logical, rewarding direction.
I always thought that option 2 was the official policy, myself. Even with every scrap of lore braught together you've still just got part of the picture. I seriously doubt many people outside of forums like this have put so much thought into the Vhaeraunite faith (for example), and the lore as written (in the DnD books, at least) is only really meant as a platform for your own material.
So, I'd argue, the Vhaeraunite faith is whatever you damn well want it to be; that is basic and marginal or large and complex, as suits your needs and desires.
e.g. my interpretation of Vhaeraun and co has always been as a bunch of anti-establishment / anarchist, who would be hurling molotovs and bombing temples if not for their drow guile and tact. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 18:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
I always thought that option 2 was the official policy, myself. Even with every scrap of lore braught together you've still just got part of the picture. I seriously doubt many people outside of forums like this have put so much thought into the Vhaeraunite faith (for example), and the lore as written (in the DnD books, at least) is only really meant as a platform for your own material.
I agree. I'm sure everyone else does too. The problem, of course, is once you branch off down your own track a newcomer to your game may very well start citing canon at you.
At some point, you just start making House Rules and House Canon. The problem, as we've been discussing, is that once you've ascribed intelligence and intelligent actions to your evil deities a new piece of canon appears that show that deity acting counter to what you know.
In a way, that's the problem with Candlekeep. We all have our own take on the lore, and we often have folks encouraging us to do so, using the same argument as you, which is basically "It's your game, do what you like". Yet once you start discussing your own take, you will always get someone citing canon. So we can all take option 2, but we are often pulled back to option 1.
Here, of course, we try yo make sense of all the information out there. But we never take the scalpel and trim away the dead stuff. If something is officially published it becomes lore. So, in the end, it doesn't matter how much you use it as a "platform for your own material" if you enjoy what you've done and you want to discuss it, you will end up wishing you hadn't. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 22:19:02
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| Personally, I tend to just ignore the people who cite canon, and continue doing things my own way. Granted, I think some of the religion/gender/house/race stuff with drow gets a little too much attention, but when you weave it all together, you get a really complex mix of plots and intrigue, and if used properly, can lead to some really harrowing experiences for PC's. Especially if you add some off-the-wall side aspect into the mix. In my homebrew world, for example, the drow have been not only driven into the Underdark, but completely off the main continent, as well. They have even taken up piracy as a means to sustain their lifestyle and culture, which takes care of the surface raids. Matrons still rule many Houses, but because piracy is a male-dominant profession, there is a hefty number of male-led Houses that have grown in power to challenge the status-quo. Add the religion and racial hatred for the high elves on the coastal mainland into that, and it becomes a nasty situation to land in. And the top House is ruled by a male, who declared himself a king and started an alliance with all the other male-led Houses. It just gets deeper from there. The point is, you can use as much or as little of the canon as you like. Lolth is still the main goddess in mine, but she does not have as big a stranglehold on them, and other faiths have popped up in her shadow. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 23:00:57
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| Thank you muchly, kind sir! I find that they make great ones, once the daylight problem is taken care of. Use Daylight Adaptaion or a cleric or mage with lots of darkness spells, and it's not a problem. Of course, the drow pirates in my realm also often have their ships fitted with special magic items called Figureheads of Night, which helps eliminate the problem altogether for some- including the exposure of drow equipment to sunlight. Nasty devils, they are!! If you want to use drow pirates, I suggest the swashbuckler, rogue, and fighter classes all work well, as does, oddly enough, the bard (a windsinger from Dragon Magazine is great for this!!). Ship's clerics and wizards are a must, and perhaps a sea-based ranger or druid. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Drow Monks?
