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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 19:50:36
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So I was reading the WOTC boards and it's against the rules there to talk about npc stats for charcters that are only in novels. But even on the candel keep boards there are only two NPC's that are clerics of Eilistraee and have stats. So I guess what I'm asking is how would one go about creating stat's for an npc only found in novels. Like Some of the members of the Promnade. The reason I ask is because I'm going to be playing a Half Drow Cleric Fighter who servers the masked lady.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 21:42:42
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Well if you want to stat an NPC for your own campaign this should not be a problem.
There have been many free online NPC generators. I am sure many of them still exist, however bookmarks for the few I used are on the old box.
Stating a book NPC does get abit harder. One needs to make a guess about level, stats and hit points, abilities/training (depending on what edition feats*skills or proficiencies etc.).
Novels provide clues as to things like spell casting ability, thus one might be able to guess minimum spell casting level, there though appear to be exceptions - many novel characters do not follow D&D rules - they get special conditions at times that no rule based charter would be able to obtain.
To make a novel NPC fit the stats, I would advise using the average stats for a Drow and modify as the novel indicates. It still comes down to guessing, is the charater stronger or weaker then the average Drow (you call increases or deceases the Str. stat.) and so on though the stats. Level as already indicated also becomes a guess, number of battles won can be one indication of how experienced a character is, the level abilities provide clues and so on though the list.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2009 : 00:50:03
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| I agree with Kentinal, but I'll add in one thing: make the NPC be who you need them to be, if you can do it without going too far past canon. Just because a novel never mentions a particular ability, there's usually nothing indicating an NPC can't have that ability. We may be able to guess just how powerful a warrior Bahb the Fighter is from his description in novels, but he might be just a bit more or less powerful -- especially if the time frame of your campaign is different from his novel appearances. And though we may never see Bahb doing it, unless some bit of description indicates otherwise, then there's no reason he can't be a skilled dancer, or an amateur horticulturist, or a devoted fan of pornographic haiku from Shou Lung. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2009 : 04:24:26
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| Thanks for the sound advice the only thing about that is Cavatina Xarann is pretty hardcore and it's hard to get her caster lvl because even low level pretests can throw up a wall of blades. She's the type to bare knuckle box pit fiend anyway. |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 01:58:13
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She is a darksong knight and that prestige class is described in... Champions of Valor on page 28. That prestige class requires that you are a fighter, however. So I don't think think it fits Lisa Smedman's vision of Darksong knights, or at least Cavatina's darksong knighteyness.
I would think she is a high level fighter/cleric. I would place her at a similar level to Qilue, only being weaker because Qilue has Chosen powers. Wasn't she the heir to High Priestesshood if Qilue died? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 02:36:38
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| Err, Darksong knight appears to have been substitution level, in 3.5 (or was it 3?) not a PC. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 07 Dec 2009 02:46:06 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 03:16:48
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| 3.x and yes its substitution lvls. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 03:55:08
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| Um, okay. So? |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 11:48:34
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| Wow Darksong knight stats suck I'm going to have to come up with something different. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 15:36:19
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Well substitution levels is just different then a Prestige Class. PrC is a type of muticlassing, substitution is instead of taking a normal level advancement (in this case Fighter)taking an advantage of some kind by giving up something else.
Stout, I was not all that impressed wiht Darksong either, however perhaps Darksong 8 plus at least 6 levels Cleric might work for you.
I rather preferred Sword Dancer, though that required female gender. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 07 Dec 2009 15:38:52 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 20:49:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
...So I was reading the WOTC boards and it's against the rules there to talk about npc stats for charcters that are only in novels...
Where exactly do the rules say this? Unless your talking about Author's giving out the character's "official" stats (which might violate NDAs) I've seen some extreamly well done homebrew write ups of NPCs stats and have done a few myself and never received any sort of warning or notice of violating the CoC or rule book.
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
Wow Darksong knight stats suck I'm going to have to come up with something different.
Actually, the Darksong Knight substitution levels are pretty awesome. For the class levels in Darksong Knight, you have d8 HD (a little worse than a regular fighter) but you gain a bonus feat at each level (something the fighter already gets) in addition to dancing feint, favored enemy, and combat dancing. Plus you add Perform (dance) to your skill list at those levels. So yea, for a drop in HD for 3 levels, you gain some major buffs along with the usual perks that a fighter enjoys while many other substitution levels for other classes require you to swap original benefits of the class.
It's a solid choice in my opinion (and I'm used to optimizing my characters  ). |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
Edited by - Diffan on 07 Dec 2009 20:56:36 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 21:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Where exactly do the rules say this? Unless your talking about Author's giving out the character's "official" stats (which might violate NDAs) I've seen some extreamly well done homebrew write ups of NPCs stats and have done a few myself and never received any sort of warning or notice of violating the CoC or rule book.
Check here
There was a big brewhaha a few years back when everyone was 'discussing' the novels on the boards which led the WizO's to restrict what could be talked about. The link in GG's index looks to be broken, however, so I don't know if those restrictions still apply. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2009 : 00:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Where exactly do the rules say this? Unless your talking about Author's giving out the character's "official" stats (which might violate NDAs) I've seen some extreamly well done homebrew write ups of NPCs stats and have done a few myself and never received any sort of warning or notice of violating the CoC or rule book.
Check here
There was a big brewhaha a few years back when everyone was 'discussing' the novels on the boards which led the WizO's to restrict what could be talked about. The link in GG's index looks to be broken, however, so I don't know if those restrictions still apply.
Indeed. It happened right before I got active over there... One of the warnings that lead to my banning was because I answered a question, saying that a particular WotC staffer hadn't written a novel, but it might be good if he did. They were so uptight about novels being discussed that a theoretical novel of no specific setting was enough to warrant an official warning. It was so bad that over here (after WotC banned me) we joked that discussing novels was using the "n-word". |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2009 : 05:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Where exactly do the rules say this? Unless your talking about Author's giving out the character's "official" stats (which might violate NDAs) I've seen some extreamly well done homebrew write ups of NPCs stats and have done a few myself and never received any sort of warning or notice of violating the CoC or rule book.
Check here
There was a big brewhaha a few years back when everyone was 'discussing' the novels on the boards which led the WizO's to restrict what could be talked about. The link in GG's index looks to be broken, however, so I don't know if those restrictions still apply.
Indeed. It happened right before I got active over there... One of the warnings that lead to my banning was because I answered a question, saying that a particular WotC staffer hadn't written a novel, but it might be good if he did. They were so uptight about novels being discussed that a theoretical novel of no specific setting was enough to warrant an official warning. It was so bad that over here (after WotC banned me) we joked that discussing novels was using the "n-word".
Ha ha ha ha but back on track I guess I don't understand how to properly use the class the way you do it just doesn't look worth it to me. But servants of Eilistraee don't have any prestige classes. After my beloved Eilistraee killed her brother and absorbed his portfolio the male equivalent for a Darksong knight were her Nightshadows. Does any one know how I would go about making my own home brew prestige class template? |
Edited by - Stout Heart on 08 Dec 2009 05:44:19 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2009 : 08:11:40
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*blink*
The goddess Eilistraee had/has (depending on Edition) two prestige classes, the Sword Dancer and the Silverhaired knight.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030902a is epic extension of the sword dancer.
You need to purchase book or magazine for the base PrC class of Sword dancer or Silverhair Knight (also called Sin eaters). However I do ask you to know the truth, there were two Goddess restricted PrCs in 3.X. I did not get into the whole deal of Nightshades and never read rules concerning them during the short time between when her bother died and she died.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2009 : 11:21:30
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| Thank you much I'm just gonna get rid of the pesky needs to be a femeale pre req I saw the aword dance class after I posted. |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2009 : 05:27:34
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| That NPC thread seems a little ridiculous. Everyone is level 25+... The Srinshee is level 30 but they need to say "NO SHE SHOULD BE LEVEL 40!!!" Why do people always create NPCs that are like demigods? |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2009 : 06:02:27
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I've discussed novels, NPC stats, and other setting specific topics that didn't directly relate to the "game" material and I've never received such disiplinary actions. Maybe it's because I didn't become a member until '05 when things cooled down? Oh well.
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
I guess I don't understand how to properly use the class the way you do it just doesn't look worth it to me.
As long as you meet the prerequisites of the substitution level, you can take that option over the ususal feature (at that level) for the class. For example: at the level where you receive a Bonus Feat and dancing feint you would receive those features plus d8 HD and Perform (dance) which is considered a class skill. OR you could gain the usual benefits of that level fighter (d10 HD, bonus feat) as normal. In addition, you don't have to take all the substitution levels. If you don't particularly like the favored enemy (Yochol +2) and would rather receive the d10 HD, you can do that but still have the option to then take the next substitution level. The unique feature of the Darksong Knight is that a character only loses 2 HD per substitution level of hit points and nothing else (gaining all the level benefits of a usual fighter).
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
That NPC thread seems a little ridiculous. Everyone is level 25+... The Srinshee is level 30 but they need to say "NO SHE SHOULD BE LEVEL 40!!!" Why do people always create NPCs that are like demigods?
Why did they ever feel the need to put statistics to those NPCs, or Demigods/Deities for that matter, to begin with?
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2009 : 15:00:39
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| The Same reason I want npc stats on darksong knights from the lady pentient series. To use them in my campaign, Or to use them as a base model for my own npcs. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 09:36:53
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| Cavatina is being listed as NPC in Expedition to Undermountain as CG female drow darksong knight 8/cleric 14. If you look for sample drow NPC, have a look at Warlockco's list ( http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=944 ) and my collection of Drow NPC of the Realms (names & classes only) ( http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=420 ) |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 10 Dec 2009 09:39:51 |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 16:12:59
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| Thank you Zanan! |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2009 : 01:13:56
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| Cavatina is higher level than Qilue??? uuuhhhh |
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Green Giant
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2009 : 03:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Okay, so I finally got around to finishing my index of Green Giant's NPCs of the Realms and NPCs of the Realms II. All the names are hyperlinked to the forum post on the WotC board with the information for that character.
NPCs of the Realms
Awesome! I was once asked to do so with the indexes but I never found the time.
I still shake my head every time I see how many conversions I posted. It's just going to make it very difficult once I start with the PF conversions.
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Edited by - Green Giant on 11 Dec 2009 03:18:41 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2009 : 04:32:04
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If you liked that, you're going to LOVE this:
I took the index, alphabetized the thing, cleaned out some duplicate postings, added in references to all the official NPCs published in 3E source material (Thanks DM_Jeff!), updated it with NPCs from Mysteries of the Moonseas and the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch trilogy and voilą!
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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NPC Stats
