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KingLouis
Acolyte
Australia
12 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 13:36:42
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Hi all,
I was wondering what you guys think of reader's guides and reference books such as:
- Reader's Guide To The Legend Of Drizzt (167 pages)
- The Grand History Of The Realms (159 pages)
I own the latter of the 2. I have to say it is a beautiful book that is designed wonderfully and has plenty of very beautiful art. However the price tag is a bit steep for the number of pages. I paid $25AUD for this, thanks to a 10% discount at book depository (which has low prices already  ) - and that was most definitely worth it. However other places really have some ridiculous prices, some going over $50AUD.
What do you think? Do you think books like these are worth their money?
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"I guess enough painkillers can make even the worst kind of hurt go away. The thing you need to know is that Mara was innocent, and Jackson was innocent - they didn't know what they were drinking and their last moments together were happy ones. They left the way I first found them - perfect and innocent. They were innocent and they're in heaven now and we'll always be a family. The guilty ones are me and Vic, Vic led but I kept following. I don't think one's worse than the other but we made each other into something worse than our individual selves. I wish I never met him. I see it all now - there's no apologies I can make, no explanations I can give - I was who I was and I can't be that person anymore. I can't let myself..." Shane Vendrell |
Edited by - KingLouis on 23 Nov 2009 13:37:24
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:13:22
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The Grand History of the Realms is a wonderful resource, and it's one I take partial credit for: I'm fairly certain I was the first person to mention it on the WotC forums, back when it was just a pdf.
The Grand History of the Realms was the last WotC product, other than novels, that I paid full price for. And it will likely hold that status for a long, long time -- it was well worth the cover price (obviously, I do not feel that way about anything that's come out since). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 14:36:26
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I have looked at the Drizzt book. It is nice.
Now Grand History is the stuff. I have been taking it to work with me and reading certain parts of it. In between reading Realms Novels at work, or Ed Novels at work. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 15:55:52
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| Both worth the price, the Legend of Drizzt one obviously more so if you are a Drizzt fan than not, but Grand History is one of the best all time FR resources. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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KingLouis
Acolyte
Australia
12 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 15:56:39
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My problem with them is their lack of value. I have a reference guide for Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time Universe that clocks in at a little under 300 pages, with a nice balance of text and art. Star Wars reference guides are also similar. They are around $25-30AUD.
They have nice descriptions of different locations in these universes, descriptions of different groups/affiliations as well as descriptions of some major characters.
At under 170 pages for these 2 FR guides, they seem a bit overpriced.
Again I like to re-iterate that I do think these books are lovely works of art so I hope nobody is offended by my opinions :) |
"I guess enough painkillers can make even the worst kind of hurt go away. The thing you need to know is that Mara was innocent, and Jackson was innocent - they didn't know what they were drinking and their last moments together were happy ones. They left the way I first found them - perfect and innocent. They were innocent and they're in heaven now and we'll always be a family. The guilty ones are me and Vic, Vic led but I kept following. I don't think one's worse than the other but we made each other into something worse than our individual selves. I wish I never met him. I see it all now - there's no apologies I can make, no explanations I can give - I was who I was and I can't be that person anymore. I can't let myself..." Shane Vendrell |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 16:20:52
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I like the Grand History book, I fall into the same boat as Wooly about it being the last fluffy sourcebook I will get at full price for a long while.
Regarding A Reader's Guide to the Legend of Drizzt: well, I know of at least a few detail minded people who abbreviated it to ARG, partially for the sounds of their frustrations and also for the discrepancies between guide and novels. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 16:30:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
Regarding A Reader's Guide to the Legend of Drizzt: well, I know of at least a few detail minded people who abbreviated it to ARG, partially for the sounds of their frustrations and also for the discrepancies between guide and novels.
I've heard some good things about it, myself, but I've not picked it up, for various reasons. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:55:32
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I own the Grand History, and had a look at the Drizzt coffee table book, which I did not purchase. I did not particularly like the Drizzt guide, which did not add enough substance to what I already had (and was interested in), so I gave it a pass.
I got the GHotR, because it was probably going to be the "ultimate" timeline for the Realms up until 1385 DR. Of course, I liked the content of it a lot. The content is worth the price, of course, but my only (very slight) regret was that the added lore, with regard to the last PDF-version, was not all that massive (I am comparing it almost line by line with my last Word-version of the PDF, incorporating the changes in my doc as I go along, so I have a reasonably good idea of the differences). With regard to the art - most of it was (as far as I could tell) basically recycled, and did not always fit the content it was linked to, nor the tags that went with it. I did not particularly care, because I am foremost interested in the content. In any even, it was worth it, if only for the fact that the GHotR was born here, at Candlekeep.com! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 23:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Grand History of the Realms is a wonderful resource, and it's one I take partial credit for: I'm fairly certain I was the first person to mention it on the WotC forums, back when it was just a pdf.
Sorry Wooly, but I feel inclined to argue that assumption. I've been active on the Wizards boards a lot longer than you, and I do recall mentioning something about the PDF there, almost the instant it was released for download, during yet another "lengthy" discussion about the Crown Wars.
Of course, I could be wrong. It *has* been a long time.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 00:02:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KingLouis
- Reader's Guide To The Legend Of Drizzt (167 pages)
[...]
What do you think? Do you think books like these are worth their money?
Wooly already covered GHotR to a point I agree with.
However, concerning your first choice, if you're still curious about it, I'd recommend you wait until the MilSims website has its annual discount sales [usually twice a year] whereupon products like this receive severe discounts. In fact, you'll probably find it's slightly discounted now, thanks largely to the strength of the Australian dollar against the US dollar. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 Nov 2009 00:03:19 |
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KingLouis
Acolyte
Australia
12 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 02:07:25
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| I have the Grand History and am currently considering the Drizzt reference guide. I can see some mixed reviews on the web and on these forums. |
"I guess enough painkillers can make even the worst kind of hurt go away. The thing you need to know is that Mara was innocent, and Jackson was innocent - they didn't know what they were drinking and their last moments together were happy ones. They left the way I first found them - perfect and innocent. They were innocent and they're in heaven now and we'll always be a family. The guilty ones are me and Vic, Vic led but I kept following. I don't think one's worse than the other but we made each other into something worse than our individual selves. I wish I never met him. I see it all now - there's no apologies I can make, no explanations I can give - I was who I was and I can't be that person anymore. I can't let myself..." Shane Vendrell |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 06:01:03
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I loved working on GHotR but sure wished that they'd allowed more time for development. It would have been nice to have put more prose to the dates, not only in terms of our 'vignettes' but also straight prose on the various epochs of Realms history with a highlights package of what was happening when and who were the movers and shakers.
Also, it would have given an opportunity to fill more holes regarding areas and cities that were given (and have been given) short shrift over the years. The fact that in terms of cohesive timelines the Dales, Moonsea and Heartlands are still a very blank canvas showed how much work was required to make the GHotR a complete product.
In my biased view, it was a very good product but could have made superstar status with more time to really work on it. Luckily it had BRJ's most excellent foundation to build on.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 11:50:50
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That would also have made it a bigger book. As it is, the caveats one needs to enjoy the Grand History are that it's largely beholden to previously published data points, so it's not a completely balanced overview of Realms history, and it could have done with more of an art budget.
And it's great value for money. Books as a whole are incredibly, insultingly cheap for what they provide next to other entertainment/art media and most other things -- they're undervalued, underpriced and almost the whole publishing industry is undercapitalized. Sourcebooks as a whole aren't a popular or mainstream medium; the huge Star Wars fandom makes for one of very few exceptions where they're published at all outside the RPG ghetto, with mass-market economies of scale. Doesn't mean Grand History and other Realms sourcebooks aren't still amazing value. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 14:09:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Grand History of the Realms is a wonderful resource, and it's one I take partial credit for: I'm fairly certain I was the first person to mention it on the WotC forums, back when it was just a pdf.
Sorry Wooly, but I feel inclined to argue that assumption. I've been active on the Wizards boards a lot longer than you, and I do recall mentioning something about the PDF there, almost the instant it was released for download, during yet another "lengthy" discussion about the Crown Wars.
Of course, I could be wrong. It *has* been a long time.
And, as it turns out, I was wrong. 
I had a few minutes to spare this afternoon, so I started searching through my zip-drive archives from around the time the GHotR PDF was first released. And Wooly was indeed one of the first Wizards members to reference the source over there. My mention, during the aforementioned Crown Wars discussion above, occurred about a week later. 
Sorry Wooly.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 02:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Grand History of the Realms is a wonderful resource, and it's one I take partial credit for: I'm fairly certain I was the first person to mention it on the WotC forums, back when it was just a pdf.
Sorry Wooly, but I feel inclined to argue that assumption. I've been active on the Wizards boards a lot longer than you, and I do recall mentioning something about the PDF there, almost the instant it was released for download, during yet another "lengthy" discussion about the Crown Wars.
Of course, I could be wrong. It *has* been a long time.
And, as it turns out, I was wrong.
I had a few minutes to spare this afternoon, so I started searching through my zip-drive archives from around the time the GHotR PDF was first released. And Wooly was indeed one of the first Wizards members to reference the source over there. My mention, during the aforementioned Crown Wars discussion above, occurred about a week later.
Sorry Wooly.
Oh, no worries. It was a given that I was right and you were wrong!   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 07:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
Regarding A Reader's Guide to the Legend of Drizzt: well, I know of at least a few detail minded people who abbreviated it to ARG, partially for the sounds of their frustrations and also for the discrepancies between guide and novels.
I've heard some good things about it, myself, but I've not picked it up, for various reasons.
I wrote at length about the "ARG" <over here>. (In fact, I think I was the one to coin that acronym for the book. )
Bob Salvatore has since said in his forums that he wasn't really aware of some of the technical changes to the lore that were featured in the book, such as changing Al Dimeneira from a solar to a deva. I don't have any idea why changes like that were made.
And because of that, I am a little concerned about some of the other new lore that was introduced there, which I originally liked (such as more backstory on Drizzt's and Entreri's weapons). Now it seems that this lore could just as easily have been fabricated without much consultation with RAS, as well, and this might effectively render it all moot. 
This begs the question, then, whether the lore in the ARG is supposed to be considered canonical if it contradicts, or otherwise has not been published in, any work of RAS . . .
Regarding TGHOTR, I am in awe of the book and the scholarship that went into preparing it. I dig chronologies!
I have also seen some of the earlier drafts of the book, with more references to the source works, and it saddens me to think of how much more the final book could've been, if they had kept that stuff in there.
And I have found discrepancies between the official dates that were used for the Drizzt references and my own personal research. Nothing major, mind you--but it does make me wonder if there might be similar discrepancies between the official dates and the source doc dates for other characters' tales. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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KingLouis
Acolyte
Australia
12 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 13:40:41
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I guess there's the Campaign Guides for the RPGs if we want more details.
It would be absolutely great if they had a reference guide similar to the ones made for Wheel Of Time, Star Wars & LOTR. Descriptions of all locations, all groups, all races, all deities. Sure there's a lot of these entities but a single page dedicated to each topic could keep the size fairly reasonable. Better yet split them up into separate books - one on locations, one on races/deities, etc. |
"I guess enough painkillers can make even the worst kind of hurt go away. The thing you need to know is that Mara was innocent, and Jackson was innocent - they didn't know what they were drinking and their last moments together were happy ones. They left the way I first found them - perfect and innocent. They were innocent and they're in heaven now and we'll always be a family. The guilty ones are me and Vic, Vic led but I kept following. I don't think one's worse than the other but we made each other into something worse than our individual selves. I wish I never met him. I see it all now - there's no apologies I can make, no explanations I can give - I was who I was and I can't be that person anymore. I can't let myself..." Shane Vendrell |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 13:44:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KingLouis
I guess there's the Campaign Guides for the RPGs if we want more details.
It would be absolutely great if they had a reference guide similar to the ones made for Wheel Of Time, Star Wars & LOTR. Descriptions of all locations, all groups, all races, all deities. Sure there's a lot of these entities but a single page dedicated to each topic could keep the size fairly reasonable. Better yet split them up into separate books - one on locations, one on races/deities, etc.
We've had all that... The 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting was pretty good at covering everything, as were the 1E and 2E FRCS boxed sets. We've also had a lot of regional sourcebooks, particularly in 1E and 2E. And there's no better source of lore on the deities of the Realms than the 2E deity trilogy, Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2009 : 13:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We've had all that... The 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting was pretty good at covering everything, as were the 1E and 2E FRCS boxed sets. We've also had a lot of regional sourcebooks, particularly in 1E and 2E. And there's no better source of lore on the deities of the Realms than the 2E deity trilogy, Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities.
A sampling of which can be found in the form of Volo's Guides, and available as free PDF downloads at WotC. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KingLouis
Acolyte
Australia
12 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 04:14:23
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| Oops my bad :) I was looking to get these, thanks for the info! |
"I guess enough painkillers can make even the worst kind of hurt go away. The thing you need to know is that Mara was innocent, and Jackson was innocent - they didn't know what they were drinking and their last moments together were happy ones. They left the way I first found them - perfect and innocent. They were innocent and they're in heaven now and we'll always be a family. The guilty ones are me and Vic, Vic led but I kept following. I don't think one's worse than the other but we made each other into something worse than our individual selves. I wish I never met him. I see it all now - there's no apologies I can make, no explanations I can give - I was who I was and I can't be that person anymore. I can't let myself..." Shane Vendrell |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2009 : 05:43:36
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| Already buy Reader's Guide To The Legend Of Drizzt. Really very intersting. I'm pretty sure I will buy The Grand History Of The Realms. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Opinions of Reader's Guide / Reference
