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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 10:45:30
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Greetings one and all!
I know it's a volatile topic, but I'd be interested to know how many fans of the new Realms are out there, and/or what bits of it you've taken a shine to.
Note: being a fan of one setting edition does not exclude being a fan of any other.
I, for example, am generally quite happy with the darker, almost post-apocalyptic Realms. I like alot of the physical changes, especially the 'big holes' that I can insert all sorts of loonacy into, the earthmotes and plaguelands are also going to come in all sorts of handy for keeping my players on their toes, and so forth.
Same with the political changes; The new orcish empire in the North is, IMHO, awesome (although I don't run it as anywhere near as friendly and economically sound as suggested in the book), as is the resurrection of the Netherese and Imaskari, and the introduction of the genasi and dragonborn nations. I love how Cormyr has been forced to become an agressive imperialist state in response to Sembia being thrown over a barrel by the shades, etc, etc, I could bang on for quite a while...
My fandom may stem in large part to having read few FR novels, so my attachment to the realms is to it as a game setting rather than a wealth of characters and stories. Also, as a DM, I have no qualms about drastically working around or simply ignoring material I don't like and shoehorning in my favourite (ans the players') bits of lore from previous editions.
So, who's with me?!
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Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 19:46:44
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| The general consensus (I daren't speak for everyone, but this is what it seems to me) is that the 4e Realms are a great campaign setting, full of awesome ideas and great potential -- but they just ain't the Forgotten Realms. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 20:45:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
The general consensus (I daren't speak for everyone, but this is what it seems to me) is that the 4e Realms are a great campaign setting, full of awesome ideas and great potential -- but they just ain't the Forgotten Realms.
The general consensus here may be that, but in my circles the 4e Realms are a lot of fun. I play in a home campaign (for example) that is having a lot of the secrets and mysteries of the past 100 years uncovered. As well, it lets us run with the new regions from Returned-Abeir and experience some totally new storylines. There is a lot of throw-backs of the Realms and the characters that have had a lasting impression and even plotlines that exist in 1479. Afterall, some powers are not quelled in 100 years, a speck of time in the Realms. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 21:40:30
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| I suppose that 100 year jump, though jarring, could be an advantage, in that the DM and players might not feel obliged to the vast wealth of lore from previous editions. The wealth of backstory material is awesome, of course, but a DM might be librerated by the 100 year jump, as well as being to use it all with little to no modification, as Matt describes. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 01:00:37
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| I'm digging into Cormyr and trying to figure out how to best present the parts of it that have changed to my players in our 4E Realms campaign. |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 01:12:15
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| My take is simple the spell plague cleaned up a lot of what wasnt wanted or needed....like hitting the 'reset' button, making it more like it was originally intended, Ancient Egypt...gone, Ancient China....gone, Mezzo-America & the whole historical debacle.....gone...now we have empires of power mad wizards and their lackeys by the score....orcs on the up...elves back in town...and a race of dragon-kin that are'nt some wierd hybrid that looks like a scaley praying mantis with a Marty Feldmann complex......so the setting for 4E is fine...my beef is with mechanics...sigh!!! And this from the guy who is madly detailing & cobbling together 25 years of notes from campaigning in the "past" in the elves glory days.... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 01:33:54
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I'm of two minds regarding the 4E Realms. The time jump and the body count both bothered me (initially, "bothered" was far too weak a word, as you'll see if you search for my early posts here circa 2 years ago), but in recent months I have found it liberating, but not in the way Matt describes; my liberation was a liberation from canon. Once I put 2 and 2 together (I don't really care for what's been done, and they're only releasing 3 books), I decided that if I have to do all this creative work myself anyway, it's going to be for my vision of the Realms. Some things from the 4E Realms ended up sticking around in what I'm developing, including  the Spellplague (at least in concept). Godslayings went out the window, as did changes in the workings of magic, as I'm still using 3.x rules (in the process of switching over to Pathfinder and playing with integrating the 4E opposed-roll mechanic).
Re: OP: I never read a lot of the novels either, apart from the ones written by Ed. My biggest problem with the Spellplague and time jump was all of the invalidated lore in my library (I own almost every FR gaming product published since 1987); yes, I know that was seen as a big plus by some people, but I'm not one of them.
I do really like the idea of The Simbul disappearing from her day job as Queen of Aglarond, and Szass Tam being in sole control in Thay. In my Realms, Thay has conquered Aglarond, Thesk, and Narfell, and is in an uneasy standoff with Damara. To the south, the Imaskari never resurfaced, and Thay easily conquered Mulhorand after its conquest of Unther. Mulhorand and Unther are the necrocracies in my Realms, as they are now populated by the skeletons and zombies of their fallen defenders; the only notable undead creature in Thay is Szass Tam. I'm still hammering out the details here, and I'd like to find the details of Tam's attempted ritual with Thakorsil's Seat, if they exist in published form anywhere (what was he trying to accomplish?, etc.).
I can't say anything good about the death of Halaster, so I'll leave that one alone, except to say that he's not dead in my Realms. Same goes for Soneillon; in my Impiltur, she has returned and taken power in the realm thanks to some interesting and powerful fiendish magic.
It should go without saying that Laerakond is awesome, and hands-down the single best thing about the 4E Realms. In my Realms, Evermeet is shattered by the Spellplague, and Laerakond (which was plane-shifted out of Toril at the time of the Sundering) returns in its place; I described it elsewhere as me "dropping Laerakond on Evermeet" but it's not nearly so Pythonesque... certainly as dramatic, however. I didn't like the Maztica replacement simply because it was an unnecessary violation of canon geography (as was the fluctuation in water levels in Faerun, imho); I've wiped out the Mazticans using tried-and-true biological and cultural-bias methods. In addition, Halruaa is still around in my Realms.
Anyway, this post has gotten quite long enough, and hopefully it's more "I like" than "I don't like".  Anyone else have any Realms-golems of their own to describe? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 02:56:47
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| A little insight into my own Realms; I kept the "destroyed" continents and just had them transposed onto Abeir. Makes for an interesting plot :) |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 13:22:24
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True. There's an aditional material plane out there somewhere from which Laerakond did a swandive into Faerun. You could easily have gates, etc., from one world to the other, get there thorugh the Shadowfell (or whatever you want to call it). You could even have it floating above the elementat chaos as a world in ruin ruled by Primordials, and so forth...
Speaking of which, anybody digging the Primordials? I have a vision about some gigantic bastard marching across the sea from Laerakond to Faerun surrounded by a flight of dragons. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 15:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
The general consensus (I daren't speak for everyone, but this is what it seems to me) is that the 4e Realms are a great campaign setting, full of awesome ideas and great potential -- but they just ain't the Forgotten Realms.
Speak for yourself. (On the 'great campaign setting' bit, not on how it's not the Realms)
I suppose the best bit is that there aren't many books for it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 16:16:10
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| Alright, we've had more than enough bashing of the 4E Realms in other threads... Let's try to have at least one thread where such bashing is absent, okay? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 18:36:02
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I like quite a bit (not all, but quite a bit). Favorite spots . . .
I ran an adventure yesterday set in Westgate using my "Eye of Justice" article (released last month, ties into my novel, Downshadow), and it was totally and completely a *Realms* game.
I also really like Waterdeep.
I like the concept of the orc kingdom, and my current Savage North campaign is going to explore it quite a bit more.
Also, I like the 4e FR genasi quite a bit, actually.
On my side of the screen, the Spellplague is an excellent, excellent story device for my campaigns.
There's plenty more, but those are my favorite bits off the top of my head.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 23:56:31
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I am digging most of 4E realms. I agree with Erik about Waterdeep. It is still the city of Splendors and adventure waits around every corner
other areas that I am liking are Airspur, Durpar, and the returned Myth Drannor. All are great areas to adventure in. |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 04:31:35
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| Of all the changes made, I'd say Netheril being re-established is probably the one that excites me the most, along with the countless possibilities for Laerakond. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 06:38:45
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I liked Halruua being destroyed. I don't like there being a nation of wizards.
I would have like the removal of all gods inspired by the real world (Silvanus, Mielikki, Oghma...except Loviatar...so maybe not really)not just the Mulhorandi pantheon. (not digging dragon people...that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard)
I like the idea of having Calimshan have larger numbers of genasi...but not 50% or whatever :o |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 11:27:32
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I thought the Dragonborn were a bit rubbish as well, initially, but they've grown on me somehow, especially after that painting of the dragonborn with the banner in AV2.
Also, I never knew Silvanus, etc, were real world inspired! I knew Tyr was Norse or some such, and the Mulhurandi crew were Egyptian, but where did the others come from?
Speaking of gods, this whole thing with Talos being retconned into an aspect of Gruumsh is another plus in my book. Big G has gone from being the orcy god of orciness (nothing wrong with that, of course) to being a broader, more mysterious god of destruction and mayhem, which I reckon has plenty of potential. Similarly controversial is Asmodeus' elevation to godhood, which gives us three big, bad, slightly wonky dark powers; a sociopathic human that forced his way to godhood (Bane), an archdevil that ate a god (Asmodeus) and some alien interloper god of destruction and carnage (Gruumsh)... Sparks will fly!
EDIT: Obviously there are loads more, but those are just three that have caught my eye in the new edition that are liable to rub each other the wrong way in my campaign(s). |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 16 Nov 2009 11:30:59 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 11:45:24
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| The additional sections of Waterdeep is something I like. A metropolis like that has to expand the way it has in 100 years so its nice to have new neighborhoods to explore. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 12:01:31
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| A side thought: I really like the story behind Baldur's Gate and how it has been inundated with refugees; making it the largest city in the Realms (albeit mostly a shanty-town). |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 14:32:34
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I am going to set my 4E Realms in the 225 DR time frame.
Very interesting Realms back then, Halaster calling Hunts in the Future Undermountain... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 18:11:38
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I find it unrealistic that Asmodeus is a greater deity though, unless the means by which people are elevated in godly power has changed.
DEATH TO DRAGONBORN. I have a hard time stomaching even the existence of half-dragons, which less a race of dragonborn. BARF.
Silvanus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvanus_(mythology)
Mielikki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mielikki
Oghma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogma
Loviatar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loviatar
They were put into the realms by Ed Greenwood for Dragon magazine articles, I believe is the story, to demonstrate how one could use real world deities in a D&D setting.
PURGE THEM ALL!!!! I think i'm going to restructure the Faerunian pantheon and post it in my "post your own stuff" thread. Except I don't think I can bring myself to purge Hathor (motherhood seems like an important portfolio that is lacking... or Loviatar. It was already suggested in Faiths and Pantheons that Leira had prepared the means by which to destroy her foe Oghma somehow. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 20:07:26
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I find it unrealistic that Asmodeus is a greater deity though, unless the means by which people are elevated in godly power has changed.
DEATH TO DRAGONBORN. I have a hard time stomaching even the existence of half-dragons, which less a race of dragonborn. BARF.
Silvanus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvanus_(mythology)
Mielikki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mielikki
Oghma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogma
Loviatar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loviatar
They were put into the realms by Ed Greenwood for Dragon magazine articles, I believe is the story, to demonstrate how one could use real world deities in a D&D setting.
PURGE THEM ALL!!!! I think i'm going to restructure the Faerunian pantheon and post it in my "post your own stuff" thread. Except I don't think I can bring myself to purge Hathor (motherhood seems like an important portfolio that is lacking... or Loviatar. It was already suggested in Faiths and Pantheons that Leira had prepared the means by which to destroy her foe Oghma somehow.
I quite like the "real world" deities. It emphasizes the idea that the Realms are tied to other worlds and universes through magic and gates.
If you were to reconstruct the Realms pantheon, would you create new deities or incorporate the removed deities portfolios into already established deities? |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2009 : 21:39:56
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I find it unrealistic that Asmodeus is a greater deity though, unless the means by which people are elevated in godly power has changed.
DEATH TO DRAGONBORN. I have a hard time stomaching even the existence of half-dragons, which less a race of dragonborn. BARF.
Silvanus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvanus_(mythology)
Mielikki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mielikki
Oghma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogma
Loviatar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loviatar
They were put into the realms by Ed Greenwood for Dragon magazine articles, I believe is the story, to demonstrate how one could use real world deities in a D&D setting.
PURGE THEM ALL!!!! I think i'm going to restructure the Faerunian pantheon and post it in my "post your own stuff" thread. Except I don't think I can bring myself to purge Hathor (motherhood seems like an important portfolio that is lacking... or Loviatar. It was already suggested in Faiths and Pantheons that Leira had prepared the means by which to destroy her foe Oghma somehow.
I appreciate and value your opinion....but the author of this scroll was looking for "the good Bits" of 4e. Your post is a bit offensive to the spirit of this particular scroll. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 04:35:01
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In keeping with the current train of thought in this scroll, and trying to focus on the good bits, the only good aspect of the divine restructuring for me was the demise of the Mulhorandi pantheon (the Untheric pantheon was already more or less deceased). More gods = better, imo, but my RW deity preferences lean more toward the European pantheons, particularly Norse and Finnish. I'll be keeping Silvanus, Loviatar, Mielikki, and even Kiputytto around in my Realms, and the only Old Empires deities who are sticking around are Sharess (formerly Bast, now renamed again to emphasize her freedom from Shar's influence) and Hoar (formerly Assuran). The rest of the Norse and Finnish pantheons will also be returning to Toril in the aftermath of the Spellplague. (I say "returning" because in my multiverse, they are native to Toril and interlopers to Earth.)
Edit: To MrHedgehog: I'm interested in seeing what you come up with as replacements for the interloper deities, but let's try to keep this scroll a bit more positive. Everyone here knows I'm not the biggest fan of the 4E Realms, but I've managed to find a lot of "good bits" in it all the same. I'd be a lot happier with the Spellplague if it had affected Shade as profoundly as it affected Halruaa and caused the disappearance of all pre-Spellplague NDAs, but that's another matter...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Nov 2009 04:42:51 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 07:39:22
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Alot of the dead gods should be easy enough to retcon back into existence as exarchs, if nothing else. This is the stance I've taken with the racial pantheons (bit of a fan of Elistraee and Kiaransalee), or be revealed as aspects of others (such as talos and gruumsh). Even if they are splattered all over the cosmos, they wouldn't be the first Realms gods to find their way back from oblivion by whatever modes you deem appropriate.
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Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 09:59:12
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I am keeping Talos around. Gruumsh tried to "eat" him, but Talos gave him indigestion.
Now their followers are at war with one another. Talos is seeking to gather more Orcs to him to weaken Gruumsh.
One of those take what you need and leave the rest deals.
Myth Drannor is still a ruin in my 1479 Realms, Evereska is the Bastion of Elven might on the mainland. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 18:54:38
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I've not given the revitalised Myth Drannor much thought yet, but if it ever comes into play the PCs will get to play with the nice, shiny new elven empire for a bit... then get to play with it's newly ruined and demon infested ashes after it's used to introduce the BBEG.
The ruins may have a greater impact on the players if they knew it in its former, if brief, glory (yes, I'm an evil DM). |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 02:38:29
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quote:
yes, I'm an evil DM
A bit redundant, no? |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
Edited by - Sandro on 18 Nov 2009 02:39:01 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 15:39:58
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these aspects of FR seem somewhat better than before:
* Vaasa, warlock knights are decent villains comparing to the earhunting
* Calimshan, only the increased genasi population
* Shou expansion, brings more cultural diversity, you don't have to travel far to get it
* the size of Anauroch being reduced
* the Tormite heresy
* adding slums to Baldur's Gate
* Airspur, a better alternative to the half-orcs, nothing spectacular though
* Winter's Hall
* sharn origins
* Zhentarim no longer being controlled by Bane
* rebellious Thayvian enclaves, tough they got to far after that
* Myth Nantar being elevated
* Simbarchs of Aglarond
* geographical changes in eastern Shaar (except the hole), Azulduth
* fey being more important, some gods becoming archfey
* reducing Anauroch in size
not sure about
* Elfharrow, the Misty Vale should have stayed, there was plenty of room around (e.g. the Bandit Wastes)
* Elturgard
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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(4e) The Good Bits!
