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Dantrag
Learned Scribe
USA
141 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2003 : 18:30:18
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Is it possible for the denziens of the lower planes to become powerful enough to rise by themselves into Toril. It would be the Greatest Battle of Faerun...*drools* ideas and ideas....!!!
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" The truth comes out only in bold and underlined" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2003 : 07:06:35
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I am assuming by 'rise', you actually mean 'summon'. If that is the case, I feel it prudent to point out that a number of devils and demons can already 'rise' to the Material Plane by themselves already. The devilish and seductive Erinyes for example, has the ability to travel to the Material Plane without the need to be summoned. It has this freedom due to it's main duty of the temptation of mortal souls. The same sort of thing occurs for the demons' Incubus and the Succubus, but these tanar'ri utilise a form of dream-subversion to tempt the person into bringing them into the Material Plane.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2003 : 07:25:20
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Another interesting point to consider (depending on what cosmology, and what edition you are using) is that post-Hellbound, both the Tanar'ri and Baatezu lost the ability to teleport and use portals to travel to different planes. They are now solely reliant on being summoned by mortal creatures mostly, or by making deals with the Yugoloths who still retain the ability to teleport.
Of course due to the changes to the teleport without error spell, this may still also be a problem.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 10 Aug 2003 07:26:19 |
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Dantrag
Learned Scribe
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2003 : 16:50:48
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| Thank you ... but i also have another question. This one is a completley different matter, In Passage to Dawn... how did Wulfgar come upon Abyss?? |
" The truth comes out only in bold and underlined" |
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Malanthius
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2003 : 18:12:28
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In an earlier book in the series, where wulfgar "died" fighting one of Lolth's yugaloths that was summoned by a priestess, in actuality when wulfgar and the yugaloth were buried beneath a pile of rubble, the yuguloth teleported itself and wulfgar back to the demon web pits, later, as a favor to Ertu in exchange for protecting her drow during the time of troubles, Lolthe traded wulfgar to Ertu, and Ertu took him to the abyss.
Mal. |
"Oh, Do stop whining, It's not the End of the World. It's just the end of Your's." |
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ByMasksMask
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 03:47:55
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Ok this is a little off topic but at the same time on topic. What would be the difference be of jumping from plane to plane or to Sigil and the prime be? And if there is no difference between jumping from place to place how can the blood war continue? (It is my understanding that the blood war spans several planes. Please correct me if I am wrong)
Or is WoTC totally going to abandon the whole planescape idea? I really enjoyed the entire planescape idea and how it and spell jammer tie everything together. Just my two cents.
(Sorry I know this is a forgotten realms forum but I figured that in the grand scheme of things all of this stuff could be relevent.) |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 03:59:43
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Wizards has officially abandoned Planescape, a fact that Sage is still in mourning over.  However, there is a fan-based project that is creating a 3e version, which will be completely free. Sage can tell you more; I don't know much about it myself. But when it's released, I'll be downloading it as fast as my dinky little 56K connection will let me . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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ByMasksMask
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 04:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Wizards has officially abandoned Planescape, a fact that Sage is still in mourning over. However, there is a fan-based project that is creating a 3e version, which will be completely free. Sage can tell you more; I don't know much about it myself. But when it's released, I'll be downloading it as fast as my dinky little 56K connection will let me . . . .
This makes me sad indeed. But a fan based one could be just as good! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 08:40:00
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ByMasksMask said -
quote:
Ok this is a little off topic but at the same time on topic. What would be the difference be of jumping from plane to plane or to Sigil and the prime be? And if there is no difference between jumping from place to place how can the blood war continue? (It is my understanding that the blood war spans several planes. Please correct me if I am wrong)
In the grand scheme of planar cosmology there was never really anything that different between jumping from plane to plane and from plane to Sigil. However, most of the portals in Sigil require special portal-keys to access and open those portals, whereas most planar portals are simply vortices or places where a particular trait of that plane will meet with the Material Plane. For example, the vortices/portals to the Elemental Plane of Fire may lay in the heart of an ancient volcano.
The one problem many people have in understanding the relationship of the planes with the City of Doors is the plane jumping aspects of planar travel. Sigil is not a plane, at least not in the traditional sense. It exists in a dimension all it's own, outside of the multiverse.
Additionally, Sigil is forever under the watchful eye of the Lady of Pain. The one fact to remember about this is, that she, and she alone determines who has access to Sigil through the portals. Take into consideration that the Lady of Pain can actually prevent deities from entering Sigil  .
There is more to it than this, however I would suggest waiting just a few more days/weeks until the campaign setting is released. All of the answers to your questions should be revealed then. If you are especially interested in this type of thing, I would recommend trying to get your hands on the older 2e Planescape products. It is well worth it, I can assure you.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 08:58:13
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ByMasksMask also said -
quote:
And if there is no difference between jumping from place to place how can the blood war continue?
The only difference (as I mentioned before) is where the portals exist to access the different planes. Also, (in some cases - especially Blood War battlfields) some portals open onto another plane in particularly weird and nearly-impossible places to access. Some sages have recorded a number of portals from Avernus, that open directly onto the battlefields of Acheron...right in the middle of the warring fiends.
The one main thing you have to remember about the Blood War is that it's primary purpose is to determine the one true way of evil in the multiverse. Which ever sides eventually wins - whether Baatezu (Devils and Lawful Evil) or Tanar'ri (Demons and Chaotic Evil) the face and nature of evil in the multiverse will be forever changed.
The battlefields of the Blood War are mainly the first two or three layers of the Nine Hells of Baator (Avernus, Dis, and Minauros), and the first several layers of the 666 known layers of the Abyss. Some other major battlefields also include the planes Acheron, Gehenna, and several other planes of conflict. The Ethereal Plane sees some battle, but is forever under the watchful gaze of the neutral and balance-maintaing Rilmani. Some Prime Material worlds serve only as places to round up slaves, and souls for the continuing war. Everything the fiends see and do is subject to how it will benefit their side in the war. There are a number of Material Planes that are under the complete dominion of fiends, and there are others that have had no contact with fiendish invaders at all simply becuase they have nothing or very little to offer.
Bookwyrm said -
quote:
Wizards has officially abandoned Planescape, a fact that Sage is still in mourning over. However, there is a fan-based project that is creating a 3e version, which will be completely free. Sage can tell you more; I don't know much about it myself. But when it's released, I'll be downloading it as fast as my dinky little 56K connection will let me . . . .
That is exactly right. However the 3e Manual of the Plane made up for that great loss a little. If you can find and purchase that tome ByMasksMask, it would serve as a great introduction into how the cosmology of D&D has changed from 2e.
As for the fan-based project...this has been a long time coming. Several years have been spent on it's creation so that everything can be as close to the traditions of the 2e setting as possible, while also introducing the new elements of 3e. There is a number of previews from the campaigns setting - a chapter about planar races -- and smaple chapters on three factions - available now for download. I will be providing Bookwyrm with a special link to download them...can I assume that you are also interested as well ByMasksMask?.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ByMasksMask
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2003 : 16:44:48
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| very much so. |
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Lower Planes
