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Topic |
Josquius
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 10:21:45
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Hey all, there's something I'm wonering about and I hope someone can help me out. I'm trying to compare Faerun to places on our earth to determine just how big it is, now googling around I hear mention of it being bigger than the USA with reference to some comparison map existing; does anyone happen to have a copy of this? Are there any other comparison maps?
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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 10:38:15
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Do you have the old Grey Box set?
If you do have a look at page 10 of the DM's sourcebook of the Realms. this gives you a visual idea of how Faerun is in real size terms compared to USA on a scale of 1cm/10mm = 200 miles.
As for later editions I don't have anything to hand I can think of that gives you a scale, apart from FRCS states on Page 5 The Land of Faerun that: " The continent of Faerun measures more then 35 hundered miles east - west and 25 hundered north - south."
In other words yes Faerun is BIG.
I hope this helps
Delz |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 16:23:29
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And there is the question of which edition you are using. Some lands and areas were shrunk when the 3ed. was introduced, changing the maps to a varying degree. |
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Josquius
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 18:27:29
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I don't have that grey box I'm afraid, just a bunch of second ed. source books. As I say I've been googling for some sort of faerun superimposed over earth image and read of this past official one, I was hoping someone may have put that picture online with it being quite an important one and not reprinted in later editions.
True on the shrinkage. Any version would suit me fine, its more for individual countries and the like on Faerun and how they compare to European ones than the entire landmass I'd like to compare (though I would also like to do that of course) |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 19:05:34
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The only comparison map out there is the Grey box set, which compares Faerun as a line drawing showing major bodies of water and terrain features, compared to a blackened image of the USA. Otherwise, you'll have to use a ruler and start measuring things for comparison.
From the looks of it, eyeballing, Cormyr looks to be smaller than Illinois. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek. Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale. Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2009 : 21:14:02
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In Geographical size North America is the third largest continent on the planet after Eurasia and Africa. So it should come as no surprise for Faerun based on the Eurasian continent to be larger than North America. I have done some approximations on a typical map of Faerun. Faerun up to the Plains of Purple dust and the Great Ice Sea is about the same size as Europe up to the Ural mountains, Caspian Sea, the Plateau of Iran and including the Mediterranean Sea. The big wastes beyond the Endless Wastes, filled with giant worms, that are the same as the steppe plains of central Asia. Kara-Tur is beyond. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2009 : 12:22:24
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That sounds to small to me, especially for the TSR edition. I don't have the book before me right now, but the Realms between the Sword coast to the West, the eastern border of the Moonsea to the East, and Calimshan to the South would be approximately the size of North America. Europe would hardly cover the area between Anauroch and Amn.
But as I said, I don't have the comparison map in front of me, so I could be wrong here. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2009 : 14:29:24
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I have the comparison, and eyeballing it, I'd guess that the Sword Coast is as long as the west coast, from Alaska, to the southern tip of Central America.
The sea of fallen stars is HUGE =)
I'd also like to change my comparison of Illinois to cormyr, they look to be about the same size. Cormyr is fat, while Illinois is long. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek. Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale. Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 18:51:54
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Upon seeing this topic, I 'shopped a google map of europe over the FR map (will upload once I've wrestled photobucket into submission).
Yeah, Feerun is big. You can just about fit Poland into Thay, the British Isles are just about swallowed up by Anauroch (and are about the size of the Moonshaes), Turkey is outweighed by the Shaar, the High Forest is just a smidge bigger than Ireland, Calimshan covers more or less the same area as Spain and Portugal, and the Chultan Peninsula goes damn near from Morocco to Egypt.
Note: For humanitarian reasons, I feel I must inform you that I've used the 4e map for this comparison, and hope that doing so will not cause any undue distress :p
EDIT: aaand here it is! http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/EuroComp.jpg
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
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Edited by - Cleric Generic on 21 Nov 2009 19:19:07 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 21:08:24
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Oh, hey, that's interesting work Cleric Generic, thanks!
Can't speak to the scale, but I do get the impression (based on pure fancy on my part, to be sure) that you might have stuff rotated a little north, if that makes any sense. I've always been kinda curious about where the equator of Abeir-Toril lay, especially in relation to the Shining South of the Faerûnian sub-continent. Magic-influenced weather patterns frustrates guesses based on supposed real-world analogues, or at least they do my guesses.
Cheers,
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 23:01:32
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From the Candlekeep FAQ:
quote: Looking at the map in F&A, we can see that the equator runs through the southern part of Maztica (just below the published map), through the northern portion of Zakhara, and through the southern reaches of Kara-Tur. It falls a little south of Nimbral (I think that's Nimbral) and well south of Chult.
Abeir-Toril, according to every published source, is roughly equivalent in size to Earth. However, part of what determines the size of the tropics and the intensity of the seasons is whether or not it has the same axial tilt. Since there are very definite summers and winters, I'd say the axial tilt is the same or perhaps even a little greater (23.5-25 degrees, as a ballpark guess).
Note also, from the same map, that even including Maztica we've only seen about a third of the surface area of Toril. There's a LOT of room for more lands to explore, to the west of Maztica and/or the east of Kara-Tur (as well as to the south of everything).
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My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 00:31:40
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Yeah, the scale accuracy in those map overlays is about as rough as you'd expact for five minutes of ham-fisted 'shopping, I think it gives a good idea of it though. :)
As for placement, I didn't really give it any thought; I just plonked one on top of the other for size comparison only. I think the equators are vaguely lined up on the world/toril map though.
Glad you liked them! |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 01:06:42
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quote: Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Upon seeing this topic, I 'shopped a google map of europe over the FR map (will upload once I've wrestled photobucket into submission).
Yeah, Feerun is big. You can just about fit Poland into Thay, the British Isles are just about swallowed up by Anauroch (and are about the size of the Moonshaes), Turkey is outweighed by the Shaar, the High Forest is just a smidge bigger than Ireland, Calimshan covers more or less the same area as Spain and Portugal, and the Chultan Peninsula goes damn near from Morocco to Egypt.
Note: For humanitarian reasons, I feel I must inform you that I've used the 4e map for this comparison, and hope that doing so will not cause any undue distress :p
EDIT: aaand here it is! http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/EuroComp.jpg
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg
Haha I was proven right. Thanks for the maps Cleric generic.
On the world map, Ama Basin is not a place you hear much about, does anyone know anything about it? Osse is also unknown, anybody know anything about it? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 01:33:12
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All we know about Osse itself has been revealed in the Lady of Poison novel -- part of "The Priests" series. Aside from a few obvious examples in the book, I usually don't agree with many who say that Osse is a direct translation of, or heavily influenced by, Australian Aborigine culture. Gunggari's mannerisms aside [as well as his dizheri], it could be said that the supposed "ways" of the Osse people could very well be associated with many other examples of Polynesian tribal cultures. I always thought the actual name "Osse" was a bit of a joke as a matter of fact... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 06:00:24
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If you go back in Ed's answers, I believe that Ed confirmed a poster's speculations and math regarding Toril's circumference, equator and axial tilt. Not sure of the date or the details, but I believe this was all worked out to some degree of specificity. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 15:54:05
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quote: Originally posted by Cleric Generic
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg
Thanks for this very much Cleric. I have been hoping for something like this for a while. Now the next thing that would be great in Realms geography would be a Globe (or 2, one post and one pre spellplague), complete with bumps for mountain ranges like an earth globe. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me: http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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jcdf
Acolyte
38 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 16:20:22
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quote: Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Ama Basin, I believe, is discussed in the old Kara Tur book(s), but beyond that I know little. Sages greater than I will no doubt have a more useful answer!
Alsom what did the maps prove?
That I was right about the size of Faerun. Jorkens said I was not.
I said previously:
quote:
I have done some approximations on a typical map of Faerun. Faerun up to the Plains of Purple dust and the Great Ice Sea is about the same size as Europe up to the Ural mountains, Caspian Sea, the Plateau of Iran and including the Mediterranean Sea.
While Europe appears smaller on your map than Faerun, your European map does not include Scandinavia. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:14:57
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quote: Originally posted by Alisttair
quote: Originally posted by Cleric Generic
EDIT 2: And here's one with all Toril and Earth, using the excellent work of Markustay and (for both of them) Wizards of the Coast and Google (credit where credit is due, and all that!) http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/TheVoiceOfReason311/WorldComp.jpg
Thanks for this very much Cleric. I have been hoping for something like this for a while. Now the next thing that would be great in Realms geography would be a Globe (or 2, one post and one pre spellplague), complete with bumps for mountain ranges like an earth globe.
haha! As soon as I can figure out how the hell to make such a thing, making it will be my highest priority! |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:18:46
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quote: Originally posted by jcdf
quote: Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Ama Basin, I believe, is discussed in the old Kara Tur book(s), but beyond that I know little. Sages greater than I will no doubt have a more useful answer!
Alsom what did the maps prove?
That I was right about the size of Faerun. Jorkens said I was not.
I said previously:
quote:
I have done some approximations on a typical map of Faerun. Faerun up to the Plains of Purple dust and the Great Ice Sea is about the same size as Europe up to the Ural mountains, Caspian Sea, the Plateau of Iran and including the Mediterranean Sea.
While Europe appears smaller on your map than Faerun, your European map does not include Scandinavia.
Indeed. The omission of scandinavia was largely deliborate, as it winds up stretching out all over the place (forget what the cartographic term for the sphere-flat conversion is). A distortion less apparent in the rest of europe, and absent in the faerun maps (I assume, they don't look warped to me). |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 16:23:54
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Excerpted from Ed Greenwood's post in his thread of 31 Dec 2004:
"So (bearing in mind that I can’t speak officially for Wizards), we’re agreed on Toril having a 12 percent larger diameter than Earth (therefore 8,880 miles or 14,280 km). I vote for the same gravity as Earth, so Toril must be about 90% as dense as Earth. I can live with that (as you say, we can assume divine tinkering with the availability of metals). Adjust the latitude of all base calculations by 1.009, and I agree with your personal choice of 8.1 daylight Midwinter hours for Silverymoon and the axial tilt that results (28°53')." |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2009 : 18:31:12
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Slightly OT question: of course, the canon is clear that Faerun is a 'proper' planet orbiting a 'proper' sun with other planets in a giant vacuum (basically), but does anyone use a more mythical variant?
e.g. I assume Toril is flat, with the sun and moon orbiting it as it remains stationary. If you sail far enough from the land, the water gradually 'thins out' into the Astral Sea (Also accessible by climbing the highest peak of the Yehimal Range). The stars and nebulae visible in the Sea of Night are only the merest hints of the unimaginable glory beyond the Crystal Sphere. It hangs in Ao's grand halls; Ao has thrown a cloak over the sphere to save the world from destruction by his ambient majesty, and the stars, etc, are what is visible through the threads of the cloak. The Five Wanderers are actually entertainers, aides and petitoners, etc, moving about Ao's grand halls in the vicinity of Toril's Sphere, as glimplsed through the weave of the cloak. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 01 Dec 2009 18:33:07 |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2009 : 12:37:25
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er...are you being serious.is toril flat.sorry if im being really dumb. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 06:05:13
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I would prefer a finite universe, such as a flat world, for a fantasy setting.
Infinity can suck it |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2010 : 21:42:46
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quote: Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Excerpted from Ed Greenwood's post in his thread of 31 Dec 2004:
"So (bearing in mind that I can’t speak officially for Wizards), we’re agreed on Toril having a 12 percent larger diameter than Earth (therefore 8,880 miles or 14,280 km). I vote for the same gravity as Earth, so Toril must be about 90% as dense as Earth. I can live with that (as you say, we can assume divine tinkering with the availability of metals). Adjust the latitude of all base calculations by 1.009, and I agree with your personal choice of 8.1 daylight Midwinter hours for Silverymoon and the axial tilt that results (28°53')."
Is this accurate?
At 12% the diameter would be 8877.5792 miles - close-enough to Ed's figure. After my calculations, that would mean Toril is 27,883.2 miles at the Equator, or 44864 Kilometers!
Even if I used the more accurate 12% I calculated, it is still 27,875.6 miles (considering it is off by just under 2 miles, I would just go with Ed's 8880 figure for the calculations).
Sorry about the threadomancy, but I'm sizing my map right now to figure-out how much more I can get on it, and it appears QUITE A BIT more - the map in the FRCS is short by 10,000 miles!
Which means Toril is either onion-shaped, or has very little axial tilt to account for the far-southern arctic circle (or is just coming out of an ice age). Maybe its a bit further from its primary then Earth, but with less axial tilt (we wouldn't want the tropics getting overly hot). That would cause very large glaciated areas north and south.
I'm gonna go with the 'little ice Age' for my own piece of mind - its simpler and fits a tiny, obscure bit of canon lore better. Also, it appears that Ed is agreeing with some other poster in that above quotation, and he is saying that Toril has a GREATER axial tilt then Earth. I'm certainly no expert - I just been reading a bunch of science sites today - but that doesn't seem to work at all, given the very large north and south polar zones. The other solution would be to say that most of the known world is actually in the northern hemisphere, which would drop the equator quite a bit south, but at least would eliminate some of the climatic weirdness.
Cleric generic, your map links are dead.
I may doctor-up my own map, just to get some idea of what kind of weather we are talking about here - I'm getting the feeling that Ten Towns isn't really that cold, they're just having a REALLY bad (and long) winter.
THO, if you visit this thread, can you or Ed provide any input? I don't want to load down his thread with stuff he probably has answered already. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2010 21:52:18 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 00:10:41
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Thank You... did you try to keep the equator placements the same?
I wanted to see them to get more of a climactic comparison, then one about size. Now that I know how big Toril really is, the known campaign area - even including stuff like Anchorome, Katashaka, and Osse - doesn't accurately reflect the entire planet - there is quite a bit more room between Anchorome and Osse (10,000 miles!), and there should be a lot more to the north and south as well.
The problem, as I see it, is the desire to reflect all sorts of cultures and environments in a single RPG setting, and while FR does this admirably (thanks to its size), we are still getting 'too much weather' in too small an area. Not really that bad in the Realms, but it is downright ludicrous in some of the settings I've looked at (the planets must be smaller then our moon). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 00:24:16
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The scale and equatorial placements are pretty rough, but otherwise accurate, I think. Bits of jungle, desert, temperate and ice all seem to line up at least vaguely.
Also, all the realms maps I've seen are flat and un-stretched, (flat) maps of earth get all warped the closer to the poles you go, which I don't see in the realms (a good thing), which might make accurately estimating the surface area of Toril's land-masses a bit of a pain in the bum... |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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Wolfrick
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2016 : 22:46:13
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I'm having trouble finding a geographical fact for Toril... Is Faerun in the North or South hemisphere? Where's the equator? Does the sun rise in the East as expected for Gaia?
Thanks, Wolfrick |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2016 : 23:34:08
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Since there is a glacier at the top of the map, I presume it is in the northern hemisphere. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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