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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 12:14:58
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained... First post on Candlekeep, following the WotC catastrophe. Ahem.
I've been playing three clerics (of Oghma, Gond and Waukeen respectively, the latter also acts as a freelance cleric, peddling faith itself), and using others as NPCs, and using
Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities as reference.
The lists of clergy titles and ranks is really handy, but I wonder how they correspond to character level and the degree of power, influence and responsibility that they entail. Obviously the lowest are acolytes and minor clergy, and the highest the grand head of the church, but the rest? Some are spelled out in the entries, but others are not. Is there a general rule as to how they correspond?
One more question: for some reason the Waukeenar titles alternate between english language economic names and fictional language terms (Coin, Abreeant, Counter, Trabbar, etc.). Any reason why? I've been thinking one is a translation of the former (hence Lender = Syndo, and Grand Syndar = Grand Lender), as I like the english titles for amusement value. :)
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BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 21:50:58
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I really don't know. I know not much help am I. 
Can anybody help a fellow scribe? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 22:26:44
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Hi, BCM. :: Waves ::
I can't recall any specifics off the top of my head so my response is of dubious worth. I do remember generic 2e supplements like the Paladin's Handbook that had paladin/knightly ranks for each level. I think older editions had the same for fighters (soldiers then noble based ranks as one advanced) and definitely ranks for druids (but the druid had a weird progression in 2e, the ranks followed the specifics of that).
Regarding the ranks for Waukeen's clergy, the mix of real world or English words and setting specific language words is a fixture of the Realms. We find it every where, from the names of places, towns/cities, dungeons/ruins, noble positions, flora and fauna, etc. I think FR does this far better than most settings and adds quite a bit to immersion in the setting without becoming a setting that needs a dense glossary of made up terms. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 23:59:02
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It wasn't just fighters, back in 1e, every class had a title for every level. That idea got dropped (along with the idea of each alignment having a secret language) in the switch to 2e. Only druids retained something of the old mechanics, though you're right that the druid was a special case.
As for priest titles, I think it was left vague for a reason. First, the concept of an exact "level" wouldn't be known in the Realms, and second because the highest ranked priest isn't always the one with the highest level. You can be promoted for being a good administrator, or because you play the politics game well, or whatever. We've had instances of very low level NPCs having a very high level of power in a church.
I'd run the titles more like a military organization, or, maybe, the RW Catholic Church. Promotions come down for doing good works for the faith, or when you build a sanctuary, or for plenty of other reasons besides just being able to throw a lot of spells around.
I'm a fencer, and it sort of reminds me of how the USFA hands out our ratings. Everyone starts out a U, Unrated. If you go to tournaments and do well enough, you get letters. They start at E and go up to A, though you don't necessarily have to work your way up one by one. But if you don't go to tournaments, your letter doesn't change (actually, it slowly drops down), even if you get better. You could be one of the best fencers in the world, but who hasn't gone to tournaments in years, and so still only has a D or and E. That fencer would prove to be quite the surprise to your opponents!
This actually happened to me; I once fenced a guy for top place at a tournament restricted for U fencers only. He beat me handily, and only later did I find out that he was the Lithuanian national champion fencing in his first tournament in the US. To extend the metaphor, he'd likely be an adventuring priest who's been too busy being *out there* doing stuff for the faith and gaining power to play the political game and get a rank that fits with his level. Or he could like what he does very well, thank-you-very-much, doesn't want to settle down in command of a monastery, or whatever, and is declining all promotions. Happens frequently enough in RL militaries.
I think this version a lot more than the old system of having a specific title for each level. Take what you will from it. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 00:33:46
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| OD&D had titles for each level as well 1E. The various realms novels over the years have hinted at ranks and titles of various realms religious organizations, but I do not believe anything has ever really been compiled in one place. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 01:11:26
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I recall this topic or something similar to it was brought up in questions to Ed, several times probably. This along with detailed information on various clergies is something he wanted to develop, but the company has never asked for.
Even then, I'm sure the lists of ranks would only be partial, as various orders, sects, sub-organization and regions might have different structures. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 04:19:35
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Hello everybody.
I figured it wouldn't be tied too closely to level, hence why I mentioned influence and responsibility. My mention of 'power' was meant to reflect power within the church, though that wasn't at all clear. :)
I had half a mind to index them all and see if a pattern emerged, but counting several showed a number of ranks ranging from 7 to 20, not including those with only a handful or no formal organisation or those that made them up as they pleased. So, no general pattern appears.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Regarding the ranks for Waukeen's clergy, the mix of real world or English words and setting specific language words is a fixture of the Realms. We find it every where, from the names of places, towns/cities, dungeons/ruins, noble positions, flora and fauna, etc. I think FR does this far better than most settings and adds quite a bit to immersion in the setting without becoming a setting that needs a dense glossary of made up terms.
Oh, I know. I just found it quite odd that the Waukeenar ranks should alternate so consistently between an English word and a Faerunian word, whereas most other priestly ranks don't follow a particular pattern like that.
The Faerunian names for Waukeenar might be local economic/mercantile terms with no accurate translation into English. I found that 'Trabbar' is also a last name for an Ilmateri priest in the Border Kingdoms articles, for example. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 04:46:28
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| By the way, good to see you in the 'Keep BadCatMan. |
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Cleric Ranks & Titles vs Level & Power
