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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 01:56:43
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A recent thread asked which was a bigger change, the Time of Troubles or the Spellplague. The general response that seemed to emerge was that:
- 2nd Edition FR/ToT was a big change for players and DMs at that time, but not disruptive to game groups who wanted to play around it and did greatly impact the body of previous Realmslore.
- 4th Edition FR is a bigger change and more disruptive to game groups in that you HAVE to start a new campaign to play in it, as well as throw out much of the accumulated lore and assumptions from previous editions.
I think this interesting question begs another question:
What is the bigger impact to Forgotten Realms games, the Spellplague designed to account for major changes to the game, or the 100-Year Jump designed to attract new players to the campaign setting?
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 03:16:05
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For me, it's definitely the 100-year jump and the discontinuity of the lore. Thanks to the time jump, we now have a Realms that's a century older, obviously greatly changed, and described in parts of only two books (plus whatever minor amount of lore was included in the adventure, which I have not looked at). Many (if not most) of the familiar NPCs are gone, and at this point we have very few new names to replace them with, and this number will be augmented only by articles in D&D Insider; there will be no further hardcopy publications for Realms 4.0. I have mixed feelings about this. Part of what I loved about the old Realms was the vast level of detail, and this is gone with 4.0. On the other hand, there are very few things that I like about Realms 4.0, so the dramatic cut to published game material outside of D&DI doesn't really matter much. Probably the only thing I will use from Realms 4.0 is Laerakond (Returned Abeir). The "cataclysm" in the Year of Blue Fire alluded to at the end of the Grand History of the Realms, I have completely re-imagined, and it does not involve deicide. Too many gods have died in the Realms already; it's old news. The idea of Abeir being a separate "sister world" to Toril is being tossed out in my Realms too. When I have the whole storyline coherently assembled and detailed, I will be posting it here at Candlekeep in some form. Until then, I don't want to give too much away, except that another of our scribes here (Markustay) has inspired me greatly as to how I am proceeding. 
Edit: To return to the question one more time: The Spellplague in and of itself would have been no different than the Time of Troubles, except far more direct and widespread in its effects on the world. I have already discussed how the time jump affects the world; the Spellplague alone changes nothing except the mechanics, and the time jump forces everything else to change. Of course, without the time jump, Wizbro would have had to publish a conversion guide, and the whole point of 4.0 was to get rid of everything that came before, so they didn't want players to be able to convert to and from the new edition (at least, that's how I and my gaming group see it, and that's part of why we are sticking with 3.5 until we have our copies of Pathfinder). |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 12 Aug 2009 03:21:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 07:28:38
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I am going to take the opposite stance from Jakk.
I can take a timejump, provided that any changes that happen in the interim are explained and internally consistent. One of my favorite authors intro's a timejump every time he comes out with a new series of books in his own fantasy world, and other than sadness at the passing of some characters, it's never once bothered me. He sticks to the criteria mentioned above, and thus it works for me.
I find that the passage of time, and discussions of the effects wrought by such, adds to the realism of a world. That's actually part of what attracted me to the Realms in the first place. Unlike the fiction that was being published for Dragonlance at the time, the Realms was a world where stuff was happening and time was marching on.
It is my opinion that the Sellplague is not internally consistent, not with itself or with prior lore. Therefore, I dislike it most heartily. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Aug 2009 07:43:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 07:39:52
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Okay, and now the mod hat is on.
This is a scroll dedicated to discussing which aspect of the changeover to the 4E Realms people think had the bigger impact. That is all this scroll is dedicated to discussing. We have discussed our overall opinions of this changeover in other scrolls -- many, many other scrolls.
We are going to keep this scroll on the specific topic in the first post. This is a topic that can be courteously discussed by anyone, regardless of what edition they prefer. There is no need to counter the opinions of others or do anything other than answer Ahwe's question.
If we start getting into random "4E sucks!" posts or posts that attack specific opinions, I'm going to start deleting those posts. We've got way too much of that elsewhere. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 09:20:32
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I like the 100 yr timejump, but not the plague, and not the lack of lore.
the roll of years was missed in the frcg.
although, could of taken the plague and no time jump, or not much of a time jump |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 11:01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It is my opinion that the Sellplague is not internally consistent, not with itself or with prior lore. Therefore, I dislike it most heartily.
You make a good point about internal consistency, but I think the plot device of the Spellplague was chosen specifically because you could explain away just about any change in spell mechanics, races, or classes with the unpredictable effects of the untrammeled magic running wild through Toril (and Abeir, apparently.) So I have less of a problem with internal consistency in the Spellplague when playing a FR game set in 1479. I simply press the "I believe" button, for instance, when a kingdom of Abeiran dragonborn gets dumped on top of the earlier immigrant kingdom of quasi-Egyptians. The Spellplague did it, it was cataclysmic, etc.- okay, I get it.
I think it is much harder to play around the 100-year jump because of the lack of lore, or more importantly, any connection to all the previous lore. I think this originates with the different design preferences of WotC (lore-light, core-neutral) and pre-existing FR fans (rich, detailed background of history to play with and build on.) FRCG provides a page or two for an entire kingdom, written up as one would for a brand new campaign world. And of course the problem is, for most FR DMs and players, it's not a new campaign world, and you want to reconcile what is new with what happened 100 years ago.
For this reason, I have found the 100-year gap much more difficult than the Spellplague making spellcasters go insane or have to learn new forms of magic. But I've figured out a general approach to playing in 1479DR:
1) Treat the 1-2-3-3.5 materials as your baseline and assume that all the political intrigues of kingdoms, organizations, gods and individuals are still in place, with new NPCs taking up the mantle from those who have died of old age. (Worst case scenario, just slightly change the old names of the NPCs in question, like King Imphras IV, Shmelben Shmackstaff, or Emperor Azoun VI.)
2) Check the 4e FRCG to see if there is any lore for the kingdom/organization/NPC in question; if you find a sentence or two, adjust accordingly. If you are in one of the handful of regions covered by lore from LFR or a novel, you'll want to pull whatever lore you can scrape together from there.
I fully intend to restart my Melvaunt-based campaign using Richard Baker's Corsair and lore from LFR module SPEC1-1, but there's not much else out there. The three most powerful families on the Council of Lords are still going to be Leiyraghons, Bruils, and Nanthers, although other political changes from my previous 3.5e campaign will still be in effect.
But you can obviously see how much easier all of this would be with say, "just" the Spellplague as opposed to the 100-Year Jump or even both.
-Ahwe |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 13:12:06
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| While I like neither, the much more tolerable of the two is the time jump. The spellplague and its' destruction of both the physical realms and deities really grinds my gears, as it makes little sense based on past realms history and is such a sweeping change that you might as well change the name of the setting. A 100-year time jump, if done properly (and this wasn't) could actually be interesting with a few novels that look at the previous 100 year history, while also allowing new story lines to be easily drawn up with a whole new cast of characters (of course this wasn't done). So my vote of which is more tolerable would have to go to the time jump over the destruction of a world I grew up with. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 14:44:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ahwe Yahzhe
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It is my opinion that the Sellplague is not internally consistent, not with itself or with prior lore. Therefore, I dislike it most heartily.
You make a good point about internal consistency, but I think the plot device of the Spellplague was chosen specifically because you could explain away just about any change in spell mechanics, races, or classes with the unpredictable effects of the untrammeled magic running wild through Toril (and Abeir, apparently.)
For me, though, the heart of the issue on internal consistency is that I think it could have been done in a consistent manner. The problem is the apparent cherry-picking of what happens. We were told some areas of the North were virtually untouched, because the effects flowed around areas of strong mortal magic. And yet Halruaa blew up. And mortal magic provided some protection, but divine realms got tossed around. I could more readily accept the event if it had had an all-or-nothing effect, instead of the same thing that saved some areas causing considerable damage in another. Another point, which I raised in another thread, is the Sea of Fallen Stars. It lost fifty feet, yet the coastlines are unchanged. And at Myth Nantar, a place more than 300 feet under water originally is now partially exposed. Ditto for the Sharksbane Wall, which was originally more than 100 feet under water. Those aren't the only examples, but it's that kind of thing that keeps me from accepting any of it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2009 : 18:47:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For me, though, the heart of the issue on internal consistency is that I think it could have been done in a consistent manner. The problem is the apparent cherry-picking of what happens. We were told some areas of the North were virtually untouched, because the effects flowed around areas of strong mortal magic. And yet Halruaa blew up. And mortal magic provided some protection, but divine realms got tossed around. I could more readily accept the event if it had had an all-or-nothing effect, instead of the same thing that saved some areas causing considerable damage in another. Another point, which I raised in another thread, is the Sea of Fallen Stars. It lost fifty feet, yet the coastlines are unchanged. And at Myth Nantar, a place more than 300 feet under water originally is now partially exposed. Ditto for the Sharksbane Wall, which was originally more than 100 feet under water. Those aren't the only examples, but it's that kind of thing that keeps me from accepting any of it.
So your suspension of disbelief is interrupted by inconsistencies internal to the change itself- I get that, because you can't help but notice it. As a DM, I want to protect the players from that and come up with my own plausible excuses. For example:
(Arcana/Dungeoneering DC 25) Because of the unpredictable havoc wrought by the Spellplague, the Sea of Fallen Stars receded by 50 feet.
(Arcana/Dungeoneering DC 40) With the weight of 50 feet of ocean depth relieved, parts of the ocean floor actually sprung back up to altitudes not seen since the coming of the great comet that created the Sea of Fallen Stars. This buckling of the ocean floor caused some deep areas to be exposed and some coastlines to recede dramatically, while simultaneously preserving the original coastlines in other places.
(Apologies to Graham Hancock for bastardizing his Ice Age coastline theory.)
-Ahwe |
Edited by - Ahwe Yahzhe on 12 Aug 2009 18:51:09 |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 01:31:23
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I'm okay with the time jump actually over the Spellplague. The Spellplague to me makes some sense with the death of Mystra, but that is as far as it makes any sense. I don't get why it was needed in the first place to kill Mystra again to promote change to the magic system. Mystra could have just willed magic to change feeling, yet again, mages were getting a little to haughty and destructive with the Weave by limiting access to it, but in ways allowing great access to other parts of the Weave not previously capable due to such powerful magic being abusively used by uncaring magic users.
That said the reason why I like the 100-year jump is mainly the Realms had become rather, shall we say, Huge Event Heavy for over two decades year after year. It needed a break big time to spread it out some. I'm rather surprised Faerun is even left standing during the year after year earth shaking events. You had plagues, famines, wars, whole new enviroment shifts, new cities being built out of thin air, mad wizards running around the realms doing gods-know-what and in the end it was still there. The 100-years would have been a way to show a slow down and a time for Faerun (and Toril) to heal and repair the damage. Plus allowing GMs a little bit of breathing room to spin off new story-arcs without feeling they had to make all those events apart of what was going on.
I mean how can a DM literally ignore Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr being reestablished with one or more elves in the group. They are going to be interested in that development as well as the neighboring human nations such as the Dales, Cormyr, Moonshaes, and Sembia. That's a huge impact and can't just be rightly ignored by a GM no matter how he goes about it unless he places them in the Chult or Shining South far, far away from it all. That really isn't fair to the PCs in general.
But also the 100-years could allow for writers as well as game designers to expand upon the Realms history and lore. Adding in new villians and heroes, making whole new kingdoms or breathing new life into the old ones. Personally, I like the idea of Many-Arrows and a kingdom of orcs, but I'm disappointed that the Silver Marches didn't become a nation of both dwarves and the rest of the Silver March cities and races. I think it would have made for a far more interesting and uneasy tension between the two nations. It still is, but the orcs really have nothing to fear from the dwarven kings as long as they don't provoke them and same going for Lunrar (sp?) (I think I spelled that nation right, but it has been a while since I looked at the new FRCG).
Plus if they didn't add in the Spellplague and in turn killed off a lot of well thought out and planned deities in the cosmos I think it would have been interesting on what would have developed from that. But who knows and that is speculation on my part. That said I think the 100 years would have been plenty with a well detailed history of changes and consistent lore to back it up, but could have omitted the Spellplague entirely and kept with the original design that is the Realms. That is just my two copper on the subject. |
Edited by - Ghost King on 13 Aug 2009 01:59:44 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 11:37:16
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| I think the focus on these two things is misplaced, as they're both just implementations of the underlying differences in the purpose and nature of the new setting. The time jump leaves much of the Realms sketchily detailed and many long-hoped-for stories without avenues of telling. The Spellplague adds insult to injury to everyone who suffered through the books department's string of garbage RSEs. Despite all that, I wouldn't hesitate to buy into a 14th-century, magically upheaved Realms done Ed's way. |
Edited by - Faraer on 13 Aug 2009 12:13:06 |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 19:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I think the focus on these two things is misplaced, as they're both just implementations of the underlying differences in the purpose and nature of the new setting. The time jump leaves much of the Realms sketchily detailed and many long-hoped-for stories without avenues of telling. The Spellplague adds insult to injury to everyone who suffered through the books department's string of garbage RSEs. Despite all that, I wouldn't hesitate to buy into a 14th-century, magically upheaved Realms done Ed's way.
So you're saying neither of these impact the play of ongoing campaigns, but rather that both events were used to repurpose the Realms to a new and hopefully larger target market?
It's an interesting thought as far as how would Ed handle a Spellplague and 100-year jump, although I can imagine it would include enough background to integrate it with past history. I'm sure it would be chock full of new conflicts and looming crises, rather than a bunch of stuff that happened 100 years ago.
Actually, I think EG's recent answer on how to integrate Laerakond into the Realms of the 1370s provides some great insights to that question...
-Ahwe |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 21:11:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Ahwe Yahzhe
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I think the focus on these two things is misplaced, as they're both just implementations of the underlying differences in the purpose and nature of the new setting. The time jump leaves much of the Realms sketchily detailed and many long-hoped-for stories without avenues of telling. The Spellplague adds insult to injury to everyone who suffered through the books department's string of garbage RSEs. Despite all that, I wouldn't hesitate to buy into a 14th-century, magically upheaved Realms done Ed's way.
So you're saying neither of these impact the play of ongoing campaigns, but rather that both events were used to repurpose the Realms to a new and hopefully larger target market?
-Ahwe
I think he's saying that the larger factor shouldn't be what was done, but why it was done. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 19:38:57
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I agree with Faraer.
When I read about the changes in the 4ed FR I was really displeased like other FR fans by the SpellPlague's inconsistencies...
... now I'm filling the gap between the past and the present, using the actions of the now-epic PCs of the ongoing campaing I'm DMing. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 19:43:19
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For me, I dislike the 100 year jump, but that in and of itself did not cause the great disconnect. The plastic surgery done to the face of Toril and the mass slaughter (and in my opinion, homogenization of) the deities caused the great disconnect.
But the biggest problem was the lack of cohesion in the lore. Specific aspects of the Spellplague were explained and contradicted (amongst many other inconsistencies). For example, that it (the Spellplage) went around Evereska and places with mythals because they were places of great magical power; but Halruaa, unquestionably one countries with the highest concentration of magical power, was detonated. Also, they said that they were trying to "blow up" or "get rid of" regions that felt out of place in the Realms (Unther, Mulhorand, Maztica); yet again, Halruaa, one of the most uniquely Realmsian nations was also destroyed. There reasoning (while questionable) did not match their solutions.
Another thing, was that they said that they were tying to get away from RSEs and the novels directly affecting the lore. So, why not set all (or the majority of) future novels during the 100 missing years, instead of the time period of the new setting?
Basically, what I am trying to get at is that while I did not like the "why" of the changes they made, it is the "how" of the changes that upsets me. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 00:40:06
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After taking some time to think about this question, I've realized that I was wrong in my assessment, and this was before reading replies posted since my previous post.
The single biggest effect is caused by neither the Spellplague itself nor the time jump, but (as mentioned by Wooly, Arioch, and Hawkins) the consistency and cohesion of the execution. Halruaa has been mentioned twice, and I'll bring it up a third time; it was probably the one nation of the Old Realms that would have fit best into the New Realms untouched. It was an already-existing, relatively-detailed part of the setting that fit perfectly with the changes they were making to the rest of the world... so they blew it up.  With that kind of logic, I should buy size 10 shoes because I have size 12 feet.  Anyway, that's my rethought take on things.
I like Hawkins' idea of setting the novels during the timejump gap; it would eliminate RSE novels, because authors are writing stories set during the recovery period, and it would help fill the historical gap. 
That's all I've got for this at the moment. I think I've correctly assessed my own position this time. Hopefully this post is still on topic... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 15 Aug 2009 00:44:28 |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 07:44:32
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Well from a person who strictly reads novels and doesn't play. I don't like the 100 yr jump because of the lack of info pertaining to my favorite characters:
Drizzt: Of course something had to be said whether he was alive almost immediately after 4e was released.
El: see above
But what happened to the other major players that plotlines weren't ended in 3.5e?
I'm hoping Mr.Baker and Mr.Greenwood were right in saying novels detailing info on these characters are in the making.
That is the only issue I have with the changes. Simply the lack of info.:(
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 07:49:11
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Oh, BTW For those of you who don't know, Lord Cyric is the true "deity" of magic,alas not even he knows this. El does which is why he is scared to cast magic. Bwhaaahhahahahaha
Kidding...just thought i'd lighten it up a bit;)
Though I do believe what I posted.lol |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 11:23:53
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I'll have to place my banner in the timejump camp. The Sellplague was bad enough...badly conceived, badly executed, badly explained, and badly justified. But the timejump was absolutely intolerable, to my way of thinking.
And why? Why put it a century later instead of five years later? The official line might be 'this is too soon after the Sellplague', but the 'Plague itself was so badly mishandled that the intervening time is going to be irrelevant, regardless of how long it is.
Another thing that irritates me about the timejump is that even with the 'Plague, placing it within the first few years would have allowed these new heroes to 'make a difference'. That's right - you want the story to be about the player characters, per the official WotC press release, and not about Elminster or whoever? Easy. <ahem>
The 'Plague hits...the world is in upheaval, and most everyone is scurrying around like beheaded barnyard fowl. The Chosen of Mystra have been decimated, mages are going bonkers, clerics are seeing some major problems in the way the pantheon functions, and the world has just seen some major decorating revisions.
But here and there, certain someones step up...a priestess of Sune, her trail-sister the halfling roguette, and the priestess's younger brother, a wizard who has somehow managed to fight off the worst effects of the 'Plague with 'only' a Spellscar as a reminder of his days-long battle to overcome insanity and arcane agony as the Weave ruptured and the energies tore through him (most likely with his big sister's aid).
In the (relatively) serene and untouched forests of the Cloud Peak Mountains, they run into a pair of travelers from the south...a genasi woman with hair like blazing flame, in the company of an even more bizarre soul...a dragonborn wielding a bizarre version of a Holy Avenger, and who is intent on speaking of his beliefs to all who will listen. The news from the south makes the problems on the Sword Coast seem trivial by comparison. Calimshan is complete chaos as the elemental lords and their genasi minions blitz through the country, the Old Empires are..gone...just gone... the Lake of Steam has erupted, and the lands to the south of it have fallen silent...not that anyone can spare a thought as their world disintegrates around them.
Days later, they chance upon a grounded Halruuan skyship. The crew and passengers are dead, save for the ship's navigator. Spending the time to help the man heal, they determine that the skyship is in decent shape, and only needs a few repairs with some easily-gathered materials, and that should do until the ship makes it back to Halruua for repairs, right?
Wrong, the Halruuan sorcerer replies...he is one of the surviving few that watched the Realms version of a reverse-Genesis-wave turn his home into a grey dustbowl alight with infernal blue fire. But there is talk, he says...talk of free companies based aboard skyships and some of the free-floating motes of earth...would the intrepid priestess and her fellows possibly be interested in accompanying him in his travels to this impromptu Clan Meet? With that as a new goal, they climb aboard the freshly-fixed skyship, and sail off to put their names in the pages of history...they are the ones that the scribes in Candlekeep will write about for all the future generations to read and study....
</pontification off> But what we got was a hundred years of...what? I have no idea what happened in those hundred years, and I am sure as Caine not going to toss $15.00 a month into the vortex just so I can get snippets and tidbits that should have been included with the base FRCG, anyways.
So I must contend that it wasn't the Smellplague itself (although the way it was explained and justified is about as satisfying as passing a kidney stone) - so much could have been done with it, so much that preserved the Realms in ways that were ignored, and kept the 'feel' even as they were 'remade' to fit 4th Edition (and as I have said, it is not an issue with 4th Edition rules - it was how the Shattered Realms were shoehorned in to fit them).
No, it was the timejump that removed the years when true heroes would have been most needed, when the world was truly ripe for those who could have made a legacy, even as the old icons of the Realms were felled or vanished. The time of heroes is gone...so much awesome potential...just...gone. |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 15 Aug 2009 11:29:27 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 13:15:52
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I do see the inconsistancy with the Spellplague.
It's as if one designer had his ideas about it, and another had their ideas about it and they never really got together to make BOTH ideas mesh. If you get my drift.
I do wish that the time-jump would have been alot shorter. Say 1356 DR.
I kid, maybe 1400 DR, a good 15 years.
Or 1385, right smack dab in the frakkin middle of the <ahem> stuff. That would make for some great LFR Games. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 15 Aug 2009 13:16:29 |
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Ahwe Yahzhe
Acolyte
Iraq
36 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 10:35:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
But here and there, certain someones step up...a priestess of Sune, her trail-sister the halfling roguette, and the priestess's younger brother, a wizard who has somehow managed to fight off the worst effects of the 'Plague with 'only' a Spellscar as a reminder of his days-long battle to overcome insanity and arcane agony as the Weave ruptured and the energies tore through him (most likely with his big sister's aid).
In the (relatively) serene and untouched forests of the Cloud Peak Mountains, they run into a pair of travelers from the south...a genasi woman with hair like blazing flame, in the company of an even more bizarre soul...a dragonborn wielding a bizarre version of a Holy Avenger, and who is intent on speaking of his beliefs to all who will listen. The news from the south makes the problems on the Sword Coast seem trivial by comparison. Calimshan is complete chaos as the elemental lords and their genasi minions blitz through the country, the Old Empires are..gone...just gone... the Lake of Steam has erupted, and the lands to the south of it have fallen silent...not that anyone can spare a thought as their world disintegrates around them.
Dude, I want to play in your Forgotten Realms.
quote:
But what we got was a hundred years of...what? I have no idea what happened in those hundred years, and I am sure as Caine not going to toss $15.00 a month into the vortex just so I can get snippets and tidbits that should have been included with the base FRCG, anyways.
...which has always been my point. You pay for a campaign setting to get, well, a campaign setting. Forgotten Realms was never meant to be the generic setting that was presented with the FRCG/FRPG.
-AY
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 15:00:48
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I'm not certain which is worse for me. I think both have caused the same problem from different angles. It has been said multiple times and I must agree, inconsistency is the worst part. I am a person who has to fully understand something before I can proceed. I have to knows the 'why' of it all and if I can't then it's possible that I cannot proceed. The inconsistencies in the realms, in the transition, are literally crippling for me. I simply cannot play in 4e.
It's possible, as has been suggested, that if the authors were to write the stories during the missing century, that they could fill in gaps and maybe explain some inconsistencies. It would be nice if they were given that chance.
I think that the Spellplague was a big enough event that they could have shortened the timejump considerably - only five or ten years would have been good. Personally, I hate timejumps. Not only do they skip over important events but they don't allow for the defining moments. I find that even the smallest IC event can cause a major shift for some of my PC's (namely Bryn) and simply skipping over those events makes it so that change does not happen. It isn't fair.
I guess, after much rambling, I'm saying the timejump was worse. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 09:35:23
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The time jump for me is far more devastating. When first presented I liked the idea cause I imagined the Realms would get the same amount of support as in previous editions. We would see all the old stories developed (not necessarily closed) and that would add to the depth of the Realms. It would also give a lot of ''fresh breath'' from the RSEs (especially those after 1370 DR), making the world more ''realistic'' and believable. But nothing of that fulfilled, most of the decisions on how to change peoples and places in the Realms were wrong.
I liked the idea of Spellplague as something that rewrites reality, introducing alternate timelines and dimensions where it's needed, correcting the mistakes done by TSR/WotC since 1357 DR. It had the potential to be the perfect tool of reinvigorating FR. Blowing up civilizations is laziness. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:15:29
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for got about thew combining of the gods and such.
hates that too, and even more so than the smellplague.... hahaha good one, I'm going to steal that one.
bwuhahahahahahahahaha |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Spellplague vs. 100-Year Jump
