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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 20:34:41
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As a relatively new poster to Candlekeep this may not be my place, but in light of all the dramatic changes that have happened to the published Realms recently and the numerous RSE's that have been thrown out since 2nd edition is there any thought of resetting Candlekeep to as close to Ed as possible and just working with the Old Grey Box as the basis for all "true" lore?
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Edited by - Apex on 10 Aug 2009 22:41:43
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 21:27:06
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| Candlekeep is edition free. It is a place of Lore from all editions even 4th edition even if many people here, myself included, do not like it and do not consider it part of our realms. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 00:31:06
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Herkles is correct. There are no plans for us to position Candlekeep on an edition-specific platform. That would defeat the purpose of the site and would likely result in a large portion of the community divorcing themselves from Candlekeep.
Having said that, we've no problems with any scribe promoting his own ideas for an alternate Realms based on previous editions. But at the same time, we must all respect that other scribes have interests in the Realms that may differ from our own. And in that regard, Candlekeep will remain edition-neutral. Any and all aspects and interpretations of the FORGOTTEN REALMS can be discussed here.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 Aug 2009 00:34:13 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 10:11:28
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| Enshrining a fixed, official, certain, 'canonical' continuity would also be directly against the spirit of the Realms. The 1350s DR is my favourite Realms setting, but it stands fine without protectionism or any fansite seal of approval. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 02:17:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Enshrining a fixed, official, certain, 'canonical' continuity would also be directly against the spirit of the Realms. The 1350s DR is my favourite Realms setting, but it stands fine without protectionism or any fansite seal of approval.
I agree on all counts, and I also agree with Candlekeep's edition-neutral stance. What worries me is that Wizbro will decide that this policy provides too much life for the old lore, and that all FR fansites must adhere to 4E canon. I haven't read the new fansite policy, so I don't know how paranoid I'm being here, nor do I know how they could possibly enforce such a restriction. I do know from past experience (DDI and the demise of the printed magazines, FR4E making such massive changes without first seeing how the people who liked the setting felt, etc.) that any paranoia is justified.
I am toying with a number of changes/resets, but I am satisfied for the most part with how the timeline progresses through 1375 DR. The only major changes from canon I know I will be making are (a) avoiding the Spellplague, (b) undoing the deaths of Halaster and Khelben (both still have significant roles to play in the future of my Realms), and (c) expanding on the Manshoon Wars via a mini-campaign. The War of the Spider Queen was already inconsistent with my Realms, as was the original 2E Seven Sisters supplement, as Qilue Veladorn does not exist in my Realms. My Seventh is a bit more... enigmatic. 
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say here. Let me just add that, as other scribes have already mentioned elsewhere, the great adventure trilogy of Cormyr-Shadowdale-Anauroch provides a creative DM with great opportunities to allow the PCs to stop the Spellplague before it starts... with some minor rewrites of some sections of the adventure path. So much for the Chosen of Mystra being able to police the entire world and the PCs being irrelevant or insignificant; as most of us understand, it's all about how the DM uses them that makes NPCs what they are.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 14 Aug 2009 02:24:04 |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 14:47:22
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| I just wanted to ask a question, if I may. When people make reference to the Old Grey Box, is that the 1st Edition Boxed Set, or is that the 2nd Edition Boxed Set? I've always thought it was 1st Edition, but just wanted to make sure. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Nightseer
Acolyte
45 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 14:50:13
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| 1st Edition. |
Shar! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 15:00:10
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| Yup. That box was grey and stayed grey. The 2nd edition boxed set was reprinted with a different box. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 16:48:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yup. That box was grey and stayed grey. The 2nd edition boxed set was reprinted with a different box.
Which was kind of a funky grey too... just with the 2e cover.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 16:57:06
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I keep trying to find the 1st Edition Boxed Set in a used bookstore for a decent price. I actually came across one, but sadly didn't have the $10 that they wanted for it at the time. I guess that's how things go sometimes. I do, however, have an almost new copy of The Ruins of Myth Drannor and the original 2nd Edition Player's Handbook along with the matching Dungeon Master's Guide. I have great friends that love eBay, LOL.  |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 17:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yup. That box was grey and stayed grey. The 2nd edition boxed set was reprinted with a different box.
Which was kind of a funky grey too... just with the 2e cover.
Here's the cover art, courtesy of the TSR Archive.
Old Grey Box
2E box, version 1
2E box, version 2
I never was particularly fond of any of that artwork, but I particularly disliked the cover on the reprint of the 2E set.
And I bought the Old Grey Box just a couple months before the 2E boxed set was announced. At the time, I found that irksome. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Aug 2009 17:05:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 17:04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
I keep trying to find the 1st Edition Boxed Set in a used bookstore for a decent price. I actually came across one, but sadly didn't have the $10 that they wanted for it at the time. I guess that's how things go sometimes. I do, however, have an almost new copy of The Ruins of Myth Drannor and the original 2nd Edition Player's Handbook along with the matching Dungeon Master's Guide. I have great friends that love eBay, LOL.
I've replaced a lot of my lost stuff by going onto eBay. There are occasional idiots on there (like people that want more than the list price for something new and readily available, or the recent idiot who wanted almost $100 for the print copy of the FR Atlas), but you can also find some great deals.
There were a couple modules I had a hard time replacing; no one seemed to have them. Then, when I finally got them, everyone stopped sitting on them and they became much easier to find.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 17:15:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yup. That box was grey and stayed grey. The 2nd edition boxed set was reprinted with a different box.
Which was kind of a funky grey too... just with the 2e cover.
Here's the cover art, courtesy of the TSR Archive.
Old Grey Box
2E box, version 1
2E box, version 2
I never was particularly fond of any of that artwork, but I particularly disliked the cover on the reprint of the 2E set.
And I bought the Old Grey Box just a couple months before the 2E boxed set was announced. At the time, I found that irksome.
It should be noted, also, that the left and centre-most sections of the imagery on the cover of the 1996 2e FR boxed set coincide with the imagery on the covers of both the Shadows of Doom and Cloak of Shadows novels released in 1995. The image on the right side of the boxed set's cover was later included on the cover of the Secrets of the Magister tome published in 2000. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 17:50:28
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| I understand, Wooly. I'd love to have a wonderful copy of Haunted Halls of Eveningstar, and would love even more to have it autographed by Mr. Greenwood. It's always been an adventure I've wanted to play through as a player. You know, take off the mantle of DM for a while and remember what it's like to be dazzled by an amazing tale of adventure. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 20:37:24
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| www.nobleknight.com is a friend indeed. Thats where I get all of my old Realms books. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 01:05:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
www.nobleknight.com is a friend indeed. Thats where I get all of my old Realms books.
I agree... but I've been completing my 3.x Eberron collection thanks to them. I got all of the 1E-3.5 Realms stuff new, with the exceptions of the big adventure trilogy, Sons of Gruumsh, and Twilight Tomb. I'm still looking for Sons of Gruumsh; I'd like to get a M/NM copy, but nobody seems to have any remaining new stock. Is it really that good?
To return this scroll somewhat to topic: I'm currently going through whatever 1E and 2E material I have PDFs for, looking for old lore that I may have overlooked earlier. In the boxed set The North (2E), I found this little gem:
quote:
From The North book 1: The Wilderness, p 47:
They [the Bored Swords, noble sons and daughters of Waterdeep] mentioned they'd found a ruined city [in the High Forest] cloaked in a field of magic, similar to the mythal around Myth Drannor. Apparently, they hoped to find powerful magic there. They haven't returned; with each passing year, the likelihood of their return diminishes.
Could this be a reference to Myth Adofaer? Except that Myth Adofaer was supposedly pulled out of time into the future... apparently even the future after the time-jump. Hmm... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 01:13:37
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AHH The Old Grey Box! So much love for that set if I do say so my self.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 05:39:26
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Is the 2nd Edition Grey Box the same as the 1st Edition??? Similar?? Or completely different.
Otherwise i've never read it haha |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 11:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Is the 2nd Edition Grey Box the same as the 1st Edition??? Similar?? Or completely different.
Otherwise i've never read it haha
Similar. Some info is updated, some is new. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Dec 2009 11:12:26 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 13:59:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Is the 2nd Edition Grey Box the same as the 1st Edition??? Similar?? Or completely different.
Otherwise i've never read it haha
Similar. Some info is updated, some is new.
Both lore and what little rules [stats] were presented received updates, as I recall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 08:46:45
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Is the 2nd Edition Grey Box the same as the 1st Edition??? Similar?? Or completely different.
Otherwise i've never read it haha
The grey box is the 1ed. set, but the early 2ed. version, a gold and black box (correct me here I lost the box itself fifteen years ago) containing the same horseman on the cover. This box later contained a different cover altogether.
There's quite a different between the 1 and 2ed. boxes, but both have their advantages. |
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Fingal
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 19:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
I keep trying to find the 1st Edition Boxed Set in a used bookstore for a decent price. I actually came across one, but sadly didn't have the $10 that they wanted for it at the time. I guess that's how things go sometimes. I do, however, have an almost new copy of The Ruins of Myth Drannor and the original 2nd Edition Player's Handbook along with the matching Dungeon Master's Guide. I have great friends that love eBay, LOL.
I've replaced a lot of my lost stuff by going onto eBay. There are occasional idiots on there (like people that want more than the list price for something new and readily available, or the recent idiot who wanted almost $100 for the print copy of the FR Atlas), but you can also find some great deals.
There were a couple modules I had a hard time replacing; no one seemed to have them. Then, when I finally got them, everyone stopped sitting on them and they became much easier to find.
On the whole prices tend to be fairly sensible for Realms stuff. I've got virtually all my 1e/2e realms material from eBay and, although there have been a couple of occasions I've paid more than I would really have liked to, I've been pretty contented with how much it's cost me.
No, you want to spend serious money? start collecting Plansescape stuff! Wow - especially the box sets....I've lucked out a couple of times but the prices have really put me off. I've been looking for a copy of Faces of Evil at a decent price; Even an Nobleknight its $75.
As for your last point: Lol, yeah. Lost count how often that's happened. Spent a small fortune on a mint condition City of Splendors boxset in a local store having never seen it for sale on eBay. Next day I couldn't move for them on that site, all with prices starting at £5. |
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Julian Grimm
Seeker
86 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 00:53:29
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I'm glad Candlekeep is staying edition free. It gives us all a nice source to draw from and alter as we see fit.
Now, my own campaign, has been reset to 1357-8 with some changes and tweaks that I wanted to make but couldn't since my last campaign was playing off others. I think this is the way the Realms should be handled in the wake of the big SNAFU. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 02:38:40
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| A reset to the earlier Realms, with some minor modifications for the current audience, and keeping it that way probably would have been vastly more welcomed than the divisive Spellplagued route. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 03:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Fingal
No, you want to spend serious money? start collecting Plansescape stuff! Wow - especially the box sets....I've lucked out a couple of times but the prices have really put me off. I've been looking for a copy of Faces of Evil at a decent price; Even an Nobleknight its $75.
I lucked out and got most of the Planescape stuff for a song... I picked up the collection of someone who was basically dumping it. I got like 90% of the entire run, for like $100.
quote:
Originally posted by Fingal
As for your last point: Lol, yeah. Lost count how often that's happened. Spent a small fortune on a mint condition City of Splendors boxset in a local store having never seen it for sale on eBay. Next day I couldn't move for them on that site, all with prices starting at £5.
It took me a long time to get my hands on a copy of the Double Diamond Triangle Saga... After like two or three years of searching, I finally found it for a reasonable price. And I've since bought it twice more, for insanely cheap prices -- the other day, my third copy of the entire set came in. Because the seller listed it as a "9 Minibook set" on eBay (not even mentioning the name of the series), I got all 9 books, in good condition, for under $20 -- and that's with shipping and handling!
Before anyone asks, I put the second copy back up on eBay and made a tidy profit. My profit on the third set won't be all that, but I'm selling to a good guy that I know will appreciate them, so that's all good. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 03:42:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
A reset to the earlier Realms, with some minor modifications for the current audience, and keeping it that way probably would have been vastly more welcomed than the divisive Spellplagued route.
Amen brother, Amen!
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 04:16:24
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| I like buying old D&D products (esp. Realm products) from current and former game designers on eBay. That way the books have more D&D mojo. ;) |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 05:33:44
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| I liked the idea of a spellplague... but not the end result. Most of the changes were absurd, even within the context of the world going bonkers. |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 15:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I liked the idea of a spellplague... but not the end result. Most of the changes were absurd, even within the context of the world going bonkers.
Going bonkers?  Thats one way of saying what they did in a nice way I guess.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 16:25:57
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| And we're starting to head back down the well-traveled road of bashing the 4E Realms and that which lead up to it. Let's find another path for this topic, shall we? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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A Reset to the Grey Box
