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gwalchavad
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 09:11:59
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Ok, so I've read the good guy books, I've read the anti-hero books. I am currious if anyone out there knows of a realmsian novel that is good vrs evil and good loses? Or is that too dark for the realms? I mean Bane has to win sometimes right... or else he isn't doing a good job. Closest thing to what I'm looking for is the tail end of the most recent Drizzt book... Don't wanna drop any spoilers... Anyone think of any that gave that creapy "you helped her? you weren't supposed to help her." moment?
Not knowing if one exists,
Gwalchavad
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Auzoros
Seeker
Australia
97 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 12:06:03
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Besides the Avatar Trilogy with Cyric being a pain in the neck all the way through...I still remember being peeved about him ascending to godhood after all the selfish, nasty things he did...I can only think of some of the short stories.
"Rite of Blood" by Elaine Cunningham (The Best of the Realms book 1), featuring Liriel Baenre.
The Realms of Infamy novel of short stories has a few gems such as;
"So High a Price" by the legend himself Ed Greenwood, featuring Manshoon!
"The Third Level" by R.A. Salvatore, featuring Artemis Entreri.
You may have read these already, so sorry if this doesn't help, but it might lead others to read these stories. |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 14:48:18
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| IŽd also count the War of The Spiderqueen series. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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gwalchavad
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 23:39:06
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well... In the avatar trilogy the god guys win, be it after calamity, they still win.
Liriel has always been a 'good guy' be it she has some evil tendancies she is a good guy
I've not read the one with Manshoon, but I will look into it, looking for a full novel...
and Artemis is very much the anti-hero, evil yes but like Cale, still the anti-hero,
and Spiderqueen was very much evil vrs evil.
All of these are very good books that I have read, save the one that I haven't, but looking for something else that I don't know if it exsists...
:( Gwalchavad |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 01:35:24
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On another note, have you read George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire? Evil pretty much kicks the stuffing out of good in those books. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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gwalchavad
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 07:51:39
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| thank you Syr, I will have to look into him. :) just an evil DM looking for motivation and material. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 19:59:26
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I think that'll do you for that.
I'm not sure if you're going to find much in the fantasy genre where evil *wins.* Tolkien (who sort of gave birth to what we call fantasy) intended to write in a genre in which good always and invariably triumphed over evil, even when it seems almost certain that it won't (see eucatastrophe), which is sort of an escapist ideal. Life isn't "happy ever after" in the real world--but in fantasy, it generally is.
And of course, there's always RAS's simple and elegant definition of fantasy: "Good wins."
If you want books where evil wins, you might check out horror novels or hard scifi.
Cheers
P.S. On another note, I'd recommend my own FR books (it's been opined that I can't write a happy ending to save my life), but good does still come out more-or-less on top, most of the time. I'm of the "no victory without sacrifice" mentality. Who knows though? You might like 'em.
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 08 Aug 2009 20:02:17 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 21:31:47
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They're not Forgotten Realms stories, but if you're looking for sword and sorcery tales where a bad guy wins, I recommend the Kane stories by Karl Edward Wagner. Karl described them as being about Bad vs. Evil. Kane is an amoral, ruthless character who generally ends up fighting some sort of supernatural evil, sometimes after teaming up with it in the beginning, then having a falling out.
Since Erik plugged his FR stuff, I guess I'll plug mine too. I haven't done stuff where capital E Evil wins, but I've written a number of stories where the protagonists are motivated by concerns other than what's the morally right thing to do. So if a reader is looking to get away from goody-goody characters, they might fit the bill. |
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gwalchavad
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2009 : 02:21:18
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Well I am proud to say that I have read and enjoyed immensely both of your works and I have read everything, you Mr. Byers, have written, in the realms. I have just started to crack the nut of Mr. de Bie's work however. I think I read Downshadow in a day; I could not put it down! I bought Depths of Madness but have not read it, in favor of my current DM plotline story, Mystra's death and all happening (now that I've finished it I will definitely be in for the delve into the 'depths')... I don't know what it is about the cover art on the warriors "set" it turned me off in a very bad way and haven't been able to bring myself to buying any of them, even though the plot and titles sound very appealing. Well I guess I could continue this by asking a further question and thanking all of those above for their answer in the former one.
I am currently running a campaign in which the impetus events of 4E are coming to pass, starting with Hallaster's death and running probly into the events that take place in the Haunted Land trilogy. And for that stretch of 300 ish years maybe I don't have a timeline, its probly a little more than that... a whole lot of evil things happen that the PCs have very little control over and without leading them by the nose to bare witness to these events as they happen around them, I am struggling to find a way to involve them and make them key to the story, but still have evil win out without throwing out epically gouda topped with swiss lines like "I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids," and "no effect," and "once again she gets away," "but I cast dimensional lock on her" "I don't care I'm the DM" "grumble grumble grumble"... I digress, but you see what I'm saying I hope, The events that come to pass are rather momentous and 'evil' and the PCs story wise were there and tried to stop them, but failed. My PCs as with most come up with a lot of harebrained schemes that turn out for them... I have several ideas currently on how events can come to pass regardless of PC interaction, but would be happy for more if they were forthcoming.
Thank you all again for some reading material and 3 cheers for two Glorious writers!!!
Humbly in front of such writing talent,
Gwalchavad |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2009 : 03:02:15
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| Thanks for the kind words, gwalchavad. Glad you like my stuff. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 04:23:05
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Sounds good, gwalchavad. I hope you like my stuff too!
You don't like the Fighters covers? I'm shocked. But then, to each his own, y'know?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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gwalchavad
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 22:08:34
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Yeah idk the style almost kept me from the Cale series, which would have been a sad set to miss.
And yes I very much enjoy your stuff! like I said, I couldn't put Downshadow down, even though I was at work and should have... ;)
And no the thanks should all be to you, both. A lot of people have shot flaming balls of tar at the 'new' realms, and it is writers like you that allow a beloved world like ours to flourish through tough times.
Cheers to you both and thank you for the color you add to our black and white world! |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 02:04:40
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| I would recommend Depths of Madness. It will give you some DM help in badness |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
Edited by - MerrikCale on 11 Aug 2009 02:05:12 |
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Looking for a good book...
