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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 16:15:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
We may simply have to contact Wizards directly and ask for their perspective on the matter.
I was wondering why no one had suggested this yet. It's not as though the Candlekeep is flying under the radar. WOTC is aware of the Candlekeep and of the Compendium. I think it would be a mistake not to dialogue with WOTC with respect to how best to proceed. If we need to contract a lawyer, perhaps we could raise funds for this. But we should engage with WOTC rather than try to second guess them.
At the risk of stating the obvious, here are a few things, among others, that I think need to clarified:
- What is WOTC's official definition of "fan site"?
- Does the Candlekeep fall under that definition?
- If the Candlekeep is not a "fan site", as WOTC defines it, what statements or agreements or copyrights are we legally bound to respect?
- In either case, what are the legal limitations on the types of materials that can be published in the Compendium?
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Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 13 Aug 2009 16:47:32 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2009 : 17:09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Afetbinttuzani
At the risk of stating the obvious, here are a few things, among others, that I think need to clarified:
- What is WOTC's official definition of "fan site"?
Indeed. This has been one of the "vague" points of the Fan Site policy. I'd imagine this is something we'd need to check with Wizards.
quote:
- Does the Candlekeep fall under that definition?
I'm not sure. I've a sneaking suspicion that Candlekeep's kind of occupying a unique place among FR sites across the web. And that's mainly due to the extensive input we have from FR designers/writers. And, especially, due to Ed's participation here. Candlekeep's position in terms of the legal framework set up by the Fan Site policy is likely going to be hard to define.
quote:
- If the Candlekeep is not a "fan site", as WOTC defines it, what statements or agreements or copyrights are we legally bound to respect?
This is likely something that will be made clearer once we know more about the Fan Site policy.
quote:
- In either case, what are the legal limitations on the types of materials that can be published in the Compendium?
Again, further definition from Wizards is the key here. The vagueness of the policy leaves a lot of room for "interpretation."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 21:50:08
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| The way I see the entire *farce*, as long as you don't agree to the policy and stuff, CK is not bound by the agreement. It must not be bound (or tied rather) to this policy in order to remain edition neutral. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 22:27:21
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I dont think En world signed it. They just rolled out their new Pathfinder Forums.
Truly the Edition Wars are now over and we all won. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 20:03:06
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With NO new lore coming out about the real Realms, No ONE wins... 
AS far as I'm concerned, the party is over.
I suggest anyone who hasn't downloaded my maps yet please do so now; I will be removing them all at some point in the near future (before I'm ordered to). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 07:19:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Here is an analysis of the so called Fan Site "Policy".
Hrm... I'm getting an "Internal Server Error" when I try this link... let me see if I can track down that article externally. 
Edit: Nope. The link I find from Google search is dead too. 
Edit 2: Found this link: http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/wizards-fan-site-policy-what-its-good-for/ |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 30 Aug 2009 07:24:17 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 16:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
With NO new lore coming out about the real Realms, No ONE wins...
AS far as I'm concerned, the party is over.
I suggest anyone who hasn't downloaded my maps yet please do so now; I will be removing them all at some point in the near future (before I'm ordered to).
Are you pulling them from Deviant as well? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 18:07:49
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Just from DeviantART.
CK may host them as long as they like. I just don't want to wait until I get a "Cease and Desist", which is bound to happen, considering certain wording in the policy.
Other people's maps are unlikely to have that problem - my desire to keep them as close to the official ones in appearnce as possible is now working against me.
I figure I'll pull the stuff off Deviant at the end of September - I plan on replacing them all with maps of my own world...
Which will be a FREE RPG campaign setting ready-to-use for any ruleset/edition. 
All WotC did was move my timetable forward.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Aug 2009 18:08:09 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 22:42:26
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Edition Neutral sounds good to me. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 23:57:03
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| Markustay... I'm guessing you've abandoned the Realms map then... or are you still planning to finish the mostly-done one? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 02:52:42
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While the pragmatist in me realizes this is the perfect opportunity for me to 'jump ship' and just forget about all the unfinished FR maps I have, the 'anal-retentive' part of me (the dominant part) loathes the idea of all that work going to waste.
We'll see...
Give me a week or so to mull things over... I really hate leaving the 98% complete K-T one unfinished.
I spent the last month hammering-out the details for my own world and site (which is indirectly why I haven't been around), and I'm really gung-ho about that, but FR is... well... The Realms.
Its hard to just forget about it, ya' know?
We'll see...
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 16:13:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
With NO new lore coming out about the real Realms, No ONE wins...
AS far as I'm concerned, the party is over.
I suggest anyone who hasn't downloaded my maps yet please do so now; I will be removing them all at some point in the near future (before I'm ordered to).
So are you quitting the realms all together or just cutting back on the map-making? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 17:22:24
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Without going into a whole lot of detail, I will probably be leaving the Realms altogether, due to many factors, some of which involve my personal life (I really need to get an income again...)
Mostly, though, its 'cause I just don't feel 'at home' in the Realms anymore. In the past month, I have read three fairly recent FR novels, and only the RAS one appealed to me...
And that one took place in 3e - VERY telling.
The fansite policy and my inability to register at WotC's new forums are just a couple of other more recent things that have tipped my fence-sitting past the breaking point.
Like I said... MANY factors involved here; I didn't make this decision lightly. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 19:40:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Without going into a whole lot of detail, I will probably be leaving the Realms altogether, due to many factors, some of which involve my personal life (I really need to get an income again...)
Mostly, though, its 'cause I just don't feel 'at home' in the Realms anymore. In the past month, I have read three fairly recent FR novels, and only the RAS one appealed to me...
And that one took place in 3e - VERY telling.
The fansite policy and my inability to register at WotC's new forums are just a couple of other more recent things that have tipped my fence-sitting past the breaking point.
Like I said... MANY factors involved here; I didn't make this decision lightly.
There's no need to leave... Just pick a timeframe and stay there, like many of us have. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 20:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Without going into a whole lot of detail, I will probably be leaving the Realms altogether, due to many factors, some of which involve my personal life (I really need to get an income again...)
Mostly, though, its 'cause I just don't feel 'at home' in the Realms anymore. In the past month, I have read three fairly recent FR novels, and only the RAS one appealed to me...
And that one took place in 3e - VERY telling.
The fansite policy and my inability to register at WotC's new forums are just a couple of other more recent things that have tipped my fence-sitting past the breaking point.
Like I said... MANY factors involved here; I didn't make this decision lightly.
Just to make sure you realize this, you WILL be sorely missed. I am sure many of us here would appreciate if you came by the 'Keep occasionally to say "hi". |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 20:56:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's no need to leave... Just pick a timeframe and stay there, like many of us have.
I agree... but I've taken a slightly more radical path. I'm doing a "virtual reset" back to the FR Clone Wars (yes, the Manshoon Wars) and expanding on that, then moving forward event-by-event from there, throwing out or changing what I don't like and keeping what I do. It's much less time-consuming than creating my own world as detailed as the Realms, and it's what Ed has told us to do from Day 1. Canon is a tool, not a straitjacket. There will still be a Spellplague in my Realms in 1385  but it's not going to affect the geography or the wizard/sorcerer population any more severely than did the ToT. I expect to be 95% consistent with canon up to this point. I'm also advancing the timeline, but only by 25 years; Year 1 of my new campaign will be 1400DR, the Year of Lost Ships, and the ships in question are those carrying the refugees from the colonies in the former Maztica (whose natives have been entirely wiped out by plague or slain in failed uprisings against the colonists; either way, the Mesoamerican analogues are just as dead as the Egyptian and Babylonian analogues of Mulhorand and Unther, whose lands have been overrun by Thay and the Tchazzar-reunited Chessenta). There's lots going on in the Realms as I see it, and earthmotes and plaguelands don't enter into it.
Edit: And I second Hawkins' sentiment, just for the record.
Second edit: Re: Brimstone:
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Plus using the Forgotten Realms Logo could prove to be a problem now. Scribes would have to stop calling the 4E Realms "Shattered", or "Sellplagued" because to would be negative towards WOTC and their products, because the site would or could possibly have an "Official WOTC Logo". Cant go and confuse the new players.
That's interesting that CK might be prohibited from using the FR logo on those grounds... seeing as Wizbro isn't using the FR logo themselves except on novels...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 31 Aug 2009 21:04:55 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 21:21:18
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Markus I for one would like to see you stay around here and there.
Jakk your FR Clone Wars made me LOL!
Jakk have you read Sentinelspire by Mark Sehestedt? I was thinking about using that as a possible agent of change in my Realms.
Think of a disaster like a Meteor hitting Toril, and devestating Faerun, causing the survivors to flee to Maztica, Evermeet, amd Anchornome(I probably miss spelled it).
On topic I know Quale has posted a question To Rich B on the Wizards Forums. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 00:39:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Like I said... MANY factors involved here; I didn't make this decision lightly.
Regardless of your ultimate decision Markus, know that you'll always be welcome here at Candlekeep. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 02:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Markus I for one would like to see you stay around here and there.
As would I.
Anyway, back to topic... I don't have anything to add, except that it will be interesting to see if the policy gets clarified and/or changed in other ways in the near future...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2009 : 10:33:59
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| Any news on the topic? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2009 : 20:41:05
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Thanks!
Have any of the other scribes had the opportunity to ask Wizards staff directly during GenCon? |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2009 : 10:10:36
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I asked some of the wotc staff, no answer. Most likely that's on purpose. Other people from wotc forums asked the customer service, the same thing, they were ignored for months.
I'm through with wotc.
Paizo is a great place. |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2009 : 11:49:29
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Quale, when you asked did the staff say that they couldn't say anything, or did they just stay silent, ignore you or what?
Whatever the answer that is very depressing news. Looks like it's the end of the line for the Compendium
Thank you esteemed Wizards of the Coast and goodnight  |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2009 : 19:22:38
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Just stayed silent, from multiple sources, even saying ''Sorry, I can't answer that'' would have been better.
Maybe they are still deliberating. 
Maybe more people should ask to generate some pressure.
Just saying, I wasn't a contributive member, my english is pretty basic, but I enjoyed the Compendium.
Even wonder if there would be enough enthusiasm for a new one considering what happened last two years. Particularly at wotc forums a lot of people lost interest and left. Weird that now there's so much freedom for the DMs with the new Realms, lol.
Lets hope |
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SeeDiGi
Acolyte
Bermuda
34 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2009 : 20:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Just stayed silent, from multiple sources, even saying ''Sorry, I can't answer that'' would have been better.
Maybe they are still deliberating.
Maybe more people should ask to generate some pressure.
Just saying, I wasn't a contributive member, my english is pretty basic, but I enjoyed the Compendium.
Even wonder if there would be enough enthusiasm for a new one considering what happened last two years. Particularly at wotc forums a lot of people lost interest and left. Weird that now there's so much freedom for the DMs with the new Realms, lol.
Lets hope
Thats what I was thinking too. Its like okay theres all this new stuff and la la la but theres hardly anyone around anymore who always talked and contributed and wrote and mapped and so on anymore. |
Edited by - SeeDiGi on 28 Sep 2009 20:58:36 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 00:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Just stayed silent, from multiple sources, even saying ''Sorry, I can't answer that'' would have been better.
Maybe they are still deliberating.
To be fair, there's about a decade or so of history regarding the use of the Forgotten Realms IP across the internet. So I'd imagine it's not simply a situation where WotC can issue a blanket declaration for how FR content can be used by non-Wizards sites on the web. There are many sites that offer tricky paths of legality that Wizards must work through. Like Candlekeep, for example, with our range of contributing FR authors and game designers.
So, at this point, I'm still willing to give WotC the benefit of some doubt, and appreciate that this isn't something that can be handled without a great deal of forethought, first.
quote:
Maybe more people should ask to generate some pressure.
Just so long as they're friendly messages and such. I wouldn't in any way advocate that scribes from Candlekeep start deliberately applying pressure to Wizards legal department, as that could potentially reflect badly on us later.
quote:
Just saying, I wasn't a contributive member, my english is pretty basic, but I enjoyed the Compendium.
If and when the Compendium is re-issued, you, perhaps, should consider about contributing. We're always on the lookout for new and future scribes.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 12:27:12
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I see your point.
Maybe the ''pressure messages'' shouldn't mention Candlekeep, but be like a front, or hypothethical.
About the Compendium, sure if I come up with a worthwhile material, hope you have a good editor, like LK did with my few EoF articles. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 13:11:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
About the Compendium, sure if I come up with a worthwhile material, hope you have a good editor, like LK did with my few EoF articles.
Good editors? Yes, we do. And Wooly as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2009 : 15:02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
About the Compendium, sure if I come up with a worthwhile material, hope you have a good editor, like LK did with my few EoF articles.
Good editors? Yes, we do. And Wooly as well.
Gee, thanks! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Topic |
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WotC Fan Site Policy released
