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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2009 : 17:24:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Barshevy
BTW, the combat map now updates automatically every time I make a change. So you can see whether you kill your enemy or not as the round progresses.
Would you like us to start calling our targets based off of the monster shorthand? |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 18:20:59
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yeah, just putting the S8 or whatever in brackets probably makes it easier to see what's what.
Also can anyone remember if there is a spell with stirge spell components, have a faint memory of something like that but can't remember. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 18:29:01
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| Hmm. There might be. I don't remember if my Wizards Spell Compendium is text searchable. If it is, I'll take a look when I get home. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 18:30:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
yeah, just putting the S8 or whatever in brackets probably makes it easier to see what's what.
Also can anyone remember if there is a spell with stirge spell components, have a faint memory of something like that but can't remember.
Blood sucking little monsters? I think so. Isn't there a summon lawyer spell?  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 18:55:15
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Forgot about them, but unfortunately mine isn't searchable. Ah well its not in anything in the PBH, Tome of Magic, Complete Wizard or the Player's Option stuff.
might have just been some fluff text in a Halruaa book. |
Edited by - Tyr on 01 May 2009 18:56:05 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 19:48:52
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| Someone should put together a master list of spell components and the spells they can be used in. Unfortunately, that's the work for some very bored unemployed person, and I still happen to have a job. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 23:18:05
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| aye, i'd consider it if the spells for wizards alone weren't spread over 6+ books, not to mention clerics, paladins, druids etc lol |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 00:13:27
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| Well, my WSC is searchable, and I regret to inform you that the word "stirge" and "stirge's" does not appear anywhere within any of the four volumes. Though it would probably be fairly easy to research it as an alternate component to some disgusting blood-related spells, there's nothing it's used for currently. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 00:38:17
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Hello, all.
I just wanted to chime in to say that I'm lurking on your Pbp and enjoying it. IMC (2E FR) my PCs are just finishing the Twisted Tower adventure in Shadowdale. They will be doing the Sword of the Dales trilogy next. So, it's interesting to watch your campaign play out.
We've been playing 2E rules, of course, but just last week we began an experiment. We're playing 4E rules in the 2E Realms. It's working out well so far.
Anyway, I'm enjoying your game so far. Cheers,
PS. I cannot see the posts in the beige font at all. |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 02 May 2009 00:41:50 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3256 Posts |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 01:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
The beige font is meant to hide the text as a spoiler, intended as knowledge for specific characters.
Aha! That makes sense. Thanks, Ashe.
Cheers, |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 01:01:04
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Hello, and glad that you're enjoying everything thus far. Also, I've read through the Sword campaign more than once. It seems like a lot of fun, and really in depth. It's always nice to see a full adventure that's so detailed and full of depth and character. Or in some cases, 'characters'.  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 01:17:03
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| Afet, just highlight the text and you'll be able to read it. How well depends partly on what browser you're using; some have it show really clearly, in others you can barely see it. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:05:04
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Heh. I happen to be an amateur book conservator, which means my first instinct when I read the "wet book" description was "Stick it in the freezer for the next six months!"
What sort of material is the book made of? Paper, parchment (please don't say parchment), something more exotic? You're lucky I forgot to buy Nagrath some spare paper; otherwise you'd be treated to a lengthy post solely consisting of conservation treatments. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:17:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Barshevy
BTW, how does sticking it in the freezer help?
I would assume that it freezes the damage and contains it to the areas damaged. Also, it should keep the ink from running any more than what it already has. Plus, wouldn't it solidify the paper itself, causing it to reduce the amount of paper that could be saturated?
I have no clue personally, just some theories. I'm interested in what it does as well, Hoondatha. I had to write a Civil War journal back in high school for a project, and I remember some of the information we were given.  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
Edited by - Penknight on 02 May 2009 03:18:33 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:27:04
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It's a sneaky conservator trick. We use freezers for a lot of things. For instance, if we suspect that there are insects in a book, we put it in a Ziplock bag and toss it into a freezer. This works best if you've got something a bit more enthusiastic than your standard kitchen freezer. Anyway, leave it there fore 24 hours, take it out and let it thaw for 24 hours, then put it back in. Continue for a few days. Bugs can take freezing cold, and very hot (ie: desert) temperatures, but they can't deal with rapid fluctuations between the two, and they die.
In the case of wet books, one option if you have abundant time is to put them into the freezer. In this case, your normal kitchen freezer works fine. Don't wrap them in anything, just leave them. For the short term, freezing a wet book is the equivalent of hitting "Pause;" it stops damage, but when the book thaws you're right where you started. But if you leave it in there for months (anywhere between 4 and 8, usually), the water sublimates. It's the same process that leads to freezer burn on food. Eventually, the water is entirely gone and you can take your dry book out. And the really nice part is you don't have tidemarks or excessive rippling. The books look almost exactly the same as they did before they got wet. I know this from personal experience; when I was moving east one of my boxes of books got leaked on by my cooler. I had about a dozen books in my freezer for half a year, and they came out of it looking, if not perfect, then very good.
If you can hook a vacuum up to the freezer, this process will greatly speed up, taking only days instead of months.
I could go on (and on) about what you do if you don't have a freezer and six months available, or the problems with clay-coated paper, or the peculuarities of parchment, or a bunch of other topics if anyone's interested. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:32:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
It's a sneaky conservator trick. We use freezers for a lot of things. For instance, if we suspect that there are insects in a book, we put it in a Ziplock bag and toss it into a freezer. This works best if you've got something a bit more enthusiastic than your standard kitchen freezer. Anyway, leave it there fore 24 hours, take it out and let it thaw for 24 hours, then put it back in. Continue for a few days. Bugs can take freezing cold, and very hot (ie: desert) temperatures, but they can't deal with rapid fluctuations between the two, and they die.
In the case of wet books, one option if you have abundant time is to put them into the freezer. In this case, your normal kitchen freezer works fine. Don't wrap them in anything, just leave them. For the short term, freezing a wet book is the equivalent of hitting "Pause;" it stops damage, but when the book thaws you're right where you started. But if you leave it in there for months (anywhere between 4 and 8, usually), the water sublimates. It's the same process that leads to freezer burn on food. Eventually, the water is entirely gone and you can take your dry book out. And the really nice part is you don't have tidemarks or excessive rippling. The books look almost exactly the same as they did before they got wet. I know this from personal experience; when I was moving east one of my boxes of books got leaked on by my cooler. I had about a dozen books in my freezer for half a year, and they came out of it looking, if not perfect, then very good.
If you can hook a vacuum up to the freezer, this process will greatly speed up, taking only days instead of months.
I could go on (and on) about what you do if you don't have a freezer and six months available, or the problems with clay-coated paper, or the peculuarities of parchment, or a bunch of other topics if anyone's interested.
I am, actually. You have my e-mail I think if you'd care to send it that way, my friend. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:41:27
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You're welcome. It's one I often mention, because it doesn't require any special gear. Other stuff, even relatively simple things like re-gluing a loose hinge, require a list of materials (in this case: polyvinyl acetate (PVA - one of our two primary adhesives), wax paper, a book press (or at least a board with a metal lip that sinks into the hinge and some bricks), and a knitting needle. And if you want me to actually re-back or re-bind a book, the list gets even longer.
@Penknight: I studied this at grad school, thus my range is pretty broad. What are you interested in? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:49:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
You're welcome. It's one I often mention, because it doesn't require any special gear. Other stuff, even relatively simple things like re-gluing a loose hinge, require a list of materials (in this case: polyvinyl acetate (PVA - one of our two primary adhesives), wax paper, a book press (or at least a board with a metal lip that sinks into the hinge and some bricks), and a knitting needle. And if you want me to actually re-back or re-bind a book, the list gets even longer.
@Penknight: I studied this at grad school, thus my range is pretty broad. What are you interested in?
Anything on the preservation of antiquated books, especially those that have been written using the products available (ink and paper) from the mid-to-late 1860's. Also, anything you might happen to know about the process that they used to bind the books and journals of that time. I knew once, but it has been a while. Thank you, Hoondatha. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 04:12:52
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This is very interesting, I was always curious how the process was to restore/preserve old texts/writings.
On a side note, and off topic, I just thought it worth pointing out that the horse that was carrying Keldon and Valak wasn't having a good day with the two tallest and heaviest people in the whole group. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 05:34:32
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Well, first you have to understand that I'm essentially nothing more than an apprentice in the field. My degree is in Archives, after all, and all my conservation experience I picked up through internships and summer jobs while studying.
That said, there are three main areas to look at for a book: the ink, the actual medium, and the binding. A few brief words about each, all coming from a US/Western perspective (Eastern paper is another subject entirely, one that we can get into later.
Ink: For centuries, the most popular ink was called iron gall. It's made from galls, essentially large pimples on trees in the middle east that are formed by bees stinging the tree and implanting their eggs. When freshly made it is absolutely gorgeous, a deep, lustrous black. Unfortunately, it fades to a light brown over time (read: centuries). It's also highly acidic. Note that at the time this was considered a feature, because parchment, no matter how well scraped, retains some oil. That oil can cause inks to smear, but the acidic iron gall ink bit into the parchment, making it a prime ink during the middle ages. This carried on well into the days of paper, past the US Revolutionary War period. Unfortunately, the ink will literally eat through the paper, given enough time. Thus many documents surviving from the 1700's have "knotholes," or in extreme cases look like advanced Swiss cheese and can tear themselves apart if you even move them.
Medium: There are three primary writing materials: papyrus, parchment, and paper. Right now, I'll focus on paper. Traditionally, Western paper is made out of rags; clothing worn until threadbare, then cut into little pieces and soaked in lime until it separates into fibers and can be turned into paper. This is a comparatively gentle process, resulting in a paper with long fibers. Unfortunately, just after the Civil War supply was greatly out-stripped by demand. This happened for two reasons: 1) increased literacy increased demand for written works, and, 2) increased prosperity decreased the numbers of rags (people were buying more clothes and getting rid of them before they were worn thin).
That's when the switch to wood pulp paper happened. To turn a log into paper, you run it through a series of buzz saws and then through some chemical baths that make lime look like a pleasant spring dip. The resulting paper has several strikes against it: 1) the process is much more acidic than the rag paper process, 2) the buzz saws chop the normally-long fibers to a fraction of the length, which does horrible things to the paper's internal stability, and 3) wood, as a plant, has a compound called lignin, which further serves to destabilize the product.
The result is you have a paper that's structurally compromised from the start and that also happens to be packed with acids and other destructive agents. You don't need an iron gall ink to destroy wood pulp paper, it destroys itself. This is what leads to paper yellowing and becoming brittle. I've done conservation demonstrations with pages from a book that are so brittle they crumble under the least strain.
All of this explains why you can pick up a book from the 1600's, one that's been used, mind you, and not one that's sat on some isolated shelf for centuries, and find it's in perfect condition, while books from even thirty years ago are so brittle the pages break if you try to read them.
Also, I should say that this has changed recently. I wish I could say it was because of archivists and conservators howling about what all the acid in the pages was doing to the historical record, but it was actually environmental lawsuits against the paper industry for dumping the acids used in the process into the rivers of Maine and elsewhere that led to a change toward more pH neutral paper, or even basic (pH above 7) paper. So books created in the last 10 or 15 years should last better than those from 20 or 30 years ago, though they still have the problem of short fibers and lignin.
I meant to go over all three parts, but this is long enough as it is, and it's late, so I think I'll leave bindings for later. And yes, this is my definition of a quick overview. It's a robust field. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 12:46:22
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| I was a comic book collector (before everything got dark and "Watchmen-y".) So that really helps me understand why some comics yellow and deteriorate, while others of an older vintage may not. |
The Search for Morn * Combat Spreadsheet * Combat Map * |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 14:23:02
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| I'll be unable to post today until late at the earliest. I'll try to get a post in if it moves on before I head out. |
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe
275 Posts |
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The Search for Randal Morn - Discussion
