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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 01:11:09
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So, just got an email from Paizo.com, stating that WoTC have pulled their license to sell any PDF's owned by WoTC. You can't buy them from April 6th, 11:59pm, PST. If you've bought any before now, you've got till midday April 7th, PST to download them.
This is also apparently happening over on DriveThruPDF. So, if you've got any bought, download them now! Not got much time left at all.
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Edited by - Uzzy on 07 Apr 2009 01:34:03
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 01:12:49
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Thank god I already got my downloads.
Wow, never knew a company that wanted to remove a source of income before... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 01:40:05
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Hmmm... My gut feeling is strongly recommending downloading all the Free PDFs from the Wizards site as well.
Old Edition downloads
By the way, here's a copy of the letter Uzzy spoke of:
quote:
Dear Matt,
Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.
We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.
Sincerely yours,
The Paizo Customer Service Team
Copyright © 2008 Paizo Publishing, LLC. 2700 Richards Rd, Suite 2100, Bellevue, WA 98005
To modify your privacy settings, visit http://paizo.com/paizo/account
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I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 02:04:15
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| I think WOTC is going to be going into the selling PDF copy business for themselves is the reason for this. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 02:34:24
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WotC_Trevor comments on the reasons over at ENworld: "Hey all. I wanted to step in and shine a mote of light on the subject. First off, this cesation of PDF sales has absolutely nothing to do with the Internet Sales Policy. I know it's the 6th of April and I can definitely see how the two would appear linked, but the truth is, this is a completely seperate matter.
Unfortunately, due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to cease the sales of online PDFs. We are exploring other options for digitial distribution of our content and as soon as we have any more information I'll get it to you." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 07 Apr 2009 02:36:11 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 02:38:29
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Heh. I wonder how long that will be? 
Though, I'm curious about whether some other online PDF supplies will eventually follow suit.
I'm afraid that WotC may have started the ball rolling here. And other online distributors will enact similar plans to further protect their digital products. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 02:46:20
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Yeah, I just saw something similar on the WotC boards.
So, they are not going to sell any more electronic copy to prevent people from pirating the books electronically. Has anyone explained to the folks at WotC that 95% of the persons distributing pirated material scan the material themselves from hardcopy?
I mean, I've bought PDFs from Paizo and DriveThruRPG and both have enough DRM on the files to make it pretty easy to backtrack who distributed the pirated material. This doesn't make much sense to me. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 02:56:17
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| Of course, if WoTC did develop an in house system for selling PDF's, does anyone really think they'd do it for old edition games/settings? |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 02:58:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Of course, if WoTC did develop an in house system for selling PDF's, does anyone really think they'd do it for old edition games/settings?
Probably not, due to the fact that they have been concentrating effort on 4e for everything else. I would be open to it though. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:04:26
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I usually don't comment about the things WOTC does lately, but this one made me really ask wtf are they doing and who came up with this bone-headed idea.
Edit: Let's yank the legal material, especially material that is ten to twenty years old, because someone is pirating the material. Okay.... this doesn't make ANY sense to me. This is like punishing the good people because the bad people were being disruptive. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 07 Apr 2009 03:10:00 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:34:46
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why doesn't it makes sense guys?
4e is struggling more than a little, they need to take away competition, even if some of that comeptition is their own product's earlier editions
also it takes a handful of customers away from Paizo who may go there for these PDFs and "stick" as paizo 3.5 fans, no longer needing WOTC
makes perfect sense to me
I laugh out loud at the piracy excuse |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:35:11
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
and then maybe not. check out the below link from WOTC, pertaining a to piracy suit.
http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Press/?doc=20090406
I don't see how the two are related, since one refers to illegal current material, and the other is relating to old material, of which pdfs are the only source of income. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:38:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Hmmm... My gut feeling is strongly recommending downloading all the Free PDFs from the Wizards site as well.
Old Edition downloads
By the way, here's a copy of the letter Uzzy spoke of:
quote:
Dear Matt,
Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.
We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.
Sincerely yours,
The Paizo Customer Service Team
Copyright © 2008 Paizo Publishing, LLC. 2700 Richards Rd, Suite 2100, Bellevue, WA 98005
To modify your privacy settings, visit http://paizo.com/paizo/account
I find it quite irksome that after tomorrow, we can no longer download files we have already paid for.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Apr 2009 03:39:02 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:49:02
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
4e is struggling more than a little...
Why do you say that, Coach?
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:50:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Hmmm... My gut feeling is strongly recommending downloading all the Free PDFs from the Wizards site as well.
Old Edition downloads
By the way, here's a copy of the letter Uzzy spoke of:
quote:
Dear Matt,
Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.
We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.
Sincerely yours,
The Paizo Customer Service Team
Copyright © 2008 Paizo Publishing, LLC. 2700 Richards Rd, Suite 2100, Bellevue, WA 98005
To modify your privacy settings, visit http://paizo.com/paizo/account
I find it quite irksome that after tomorrow, we can no longer download files we have already paid for.
Ooohh... evil thought:
Let's say, hypothetically, tomorrow my hard drive crashes with all my pdfs. Everything's irretrievable. Now, I want to get that digital media back that I bought and paid for. Paizo tells me sorry, they no longer can do that since WotC told them to stop.
So my only recourse now is to sue WotC to return the property that I legitimately bought from them. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:59:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ooohh... evil thought:
Let's say, hypothetically, tomorrow my hard drive crashes with all my pdfs. Everything's irretrievable. Now, I want to get that digital media back that I bought and paid for. Paizo tells me sorry, they no longer can do that since WotC told them to stop.
So my only recourse now is to sue WotC to return the property that I legitimately bought from them.
What?
If your house burned down would you sue the publishers of the books you lost for "return of property?" Which you probably didn't buy from them anyway, actually, but from a bookstore who bought it from a distributor who bought it from the publisher, as in this case, you didn't buy the file file from WotC but from Paizo.
Anyway, back up often, and test those smoke alarms every six months!
Too bad about them getting of the .pdf business, and I hope the material is available again soon from somebody. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 03:59:58
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make multiple copies as I just did. I have copies on my laptop's internal hard drive and an external one as well. I am half tempted to put them all on CD's as an extra measure.
What are other folks doing to preserve their electronic RPG materials |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 04:09:56
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Ah, I *do* make multiple copies. However, that is illegal!! So, are you telling me to make illegal copies of copyrighted material?
And, in regards to Christopher, the two are not similar. If you go to DriveThruRPG, they allow you 5 downloads per purchase, so you are able to download a new copy if your computer fries (something which, unfortunately, I have used in the past). Also, iTunes allows you to 'backup' your purchases on their servers. This is the digital age and digital purchases are different than physical purchases. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 04:23:41
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Sure it is (the digital age). But do you think that the digital purchase of a piece of intellectual property gives you more rights than the physical purchase of a book that contains that same intellectual property? In your example, the right to sue for replacement of lost property (a right that I'm not sure exists in the first place, at least within the parameters we're using)?
The two aren't similar? Maybe I misunderstood you. You described a situation in which you had purchased a product for a retailer. Through no fault of the producer of that product, that product was lost. And you think you're owed a free replacement?
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ah, I *do* make multiple copies. However, that is illegal!! So, are you telling me to make illegal copies of copyrighted material?
And, in regards to Christopher, the two are not similar. If you go to DriveThruRPG, they allow you 5 downloads per purchase, so you are able to download a new copy if your computer fries (something which, unfortunately, I have used in the past). Also, iTunes allows you to 'backup' your purchases on their servers. This is the digital age and digital purchases are different than physical purchases.
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 04:35:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ah, I *do* make multiple copies. However, that is illegal!! So, are you telling me to make illegal copies of copyrighted material?
oh boy...I was just saying folks should back up their crap!  |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 04:38:21
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My point is that I purchased the right to download the product from that retailer. If they are set to allow a single download, then I'll be happy with that download and not complain if the original gets lost. However, Paizo and DriveThru both allow multiple downloads of the product you are purchasing and to have WotC stop them from allowing that doesn't make sense.
Ah well, none on this is going to change. I actually started the 'evil idea' half-jokingly, but it seems to have taken on a life of its own. My problem is that WotC licensed these sites to sell their products, knowing how the businesses operated, but now they are rescinding on their agreement in a manner that I find illogical. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 05:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by coach
4e is struggling more than a little...
Why do you say that, Coach?
Dude... I know you like $e. That's cool and all but...most of the folks I know (and the folks that they know, etc.) really rather don't. And so, WotC, with it's big blockbuster product driving away die-hard fans in droves, elects to...alienate yet more fans.
On a related topic, let me tell you a story...
What's Microsoft Vista's biggest competitor? You gots it- Microsoft XP. So how has Microsoft responded? By making it harder to get XP. They know the 'new, improved' product is, shall we say, not exactly grabbing fistfuls of market share- so instead of saying 'wow, we're sorry Vista is bad, and since we regret allowing rabid chimpanzees to write our new product we shall go back to the older, better system right now so that we can all get on with our lives', they are trying to drive XP off the market...in other words they are in competition WITH THEMSELVES. Which is the height of idiocy, as it takes otherwise loyal customers and makes them so mad at the company (because they spent LOADS of money on XP, but were willing to try Vista... till it turned out to be only slightly better than something written by the guy you knew in 3rd grade who smelled like pee all the time, and the same corporation that these loyal customers gave all this $$ to clearly doesn't care that the new product isn't worth its weight in feces and is driving customers away) that it leads them, inevitably, to pirating the older, better version, since, well... they have no loyalty left to a company that abandoned them. Because that, you see, is the crux. People believed that because they had been loyal to Microsoft for that, in turn, Microsoft wouldn't just burn them by pulling all support (even that which was free) to the older OS. So when Microsoft started to do just that, these people felt betrayed, saying "I could've gone with linux! I was loyal to Microsoft, but they didn't feel the need to show ME any loyalty in return."
Of course I was talking about Microsoft. Who did you think I was referring to? Sorry to go off topic. Talking about Microsoft. Which is what I was doing there. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 07 Apr 2009 07:02:37 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 07:15:57
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Hm, now WotC actually managed to do something that irritated me again. I thought I had become immune to that. One, I paid for those backup-downloads and now I cant access them, just great. Two, so their strategy is to punish those of us who don't want to download illegally and never have? Fantastic. Three There were quite a few old products I still hadn't gotten hold of, so now I have to work my sweet behind of finding these.
A great start to the day. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 07:21:08
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| Folks, let's not turn this into another anti-4E thing, okay? We've got more than enough threads for people to discuss 4E. Unless someone can conclusively prove that this move is directly related to 4E, we don't need to even mention 4E in this thread. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 07:39:40
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| I had to snicker at this. If the folks at WOTC really think this will have any impact on piracy, then I want some of whatever they are smoking. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 09:23:14
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So I wonder what this will do to nobleknight.com? Would WotC pull the right to sell old physical copies of books? What a time to check my e-mails. I had alot of old realms materials I was wanting on PDF. Maybe WotC will sell them on their site?
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 11:27:24
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| I think its simply the same as when they pulled Dragon and Dungeon away from Paizo, in that they want to have complete control of their IP. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 12:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
4e is struggling more than a little, they need to take away competition,
Is it struggling? Where are the figures?
I've no wish to appear aggressive in my questions, it's just that I have no idea how $E is doing. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 12:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I was just saying folks should back up their crap!
A blocked toilet backs up your crap very well.
Edit: Speaking of which, the idea of closing down legitimate pdf sales makes no sense to me either. Isn't that just going to encourage more pirated material since a hole will open in the market? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 07 Apr 2009 12:31:13 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2009 : 12:55:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I was just saying folks should back up their crap!
A blocked toilet backs up your crap very well.
Edit: Speaking of which, the idea of closing down legitimate pdf sales makes no sense to me either. Isn't that just going to encourage more pirated material since a hole will open in the market?
I agree...even with the toilet part, disgusting tho it may be.
To prevent piracy it doesn't make sense to shut down the legitimate sale of things. That's like...well, some band pulling their CDs off the market because there are copies floating around illegally. The fluctuation of illegal copies will just rise.
As to second hand product...how the bleeding hell could they accomplish that? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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WoTC/FR PDF's being pulled from Paizo.com
