| Author |
 Topic  |
|
IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 06:01:58
|
Hi scribes.
I was wandering in my favorite kind of plot when I DM, and always prefer developed villain plans. So that, I want to know, for you guys, what you think, in FR novels, is the most amazing, smartest, well executed plan of villains.
I particularly think Kymil's plan to make Arylin and Bran to join was the most smartest of all. Make he think that she was a target/guilty of Harper's killer to he came to protect/harass the half-elf, making moonstone and moonblade togheter is really amazing.
I would like to know your opinion?
|
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
|
|
Iliyan
Acolyte
Croatia
42 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 07:51:33
|
Wow, tough one to beat, Kymil's plans are grand indeed especially so because he is a "normal" elf, not a deity. And the lifespan of these designs is very long.
However I'd have to say that Lloth seems to be the ultimate spinner of wicked schemes. However her plans almost always backfire, except in one case... Which would be the ultimate events of the War of the Spider Queen novels. In the end not one person had a clue as to what exactly had Lloth schemed, only that it would surely come to life eventually.
In case you had thought of more "mortal" FR heroes, I would say... Manshoon. He still isn't dead, that's gotta count for something :D |
 |
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 08:43:28
|
Shar's fooling Cyric into killing Mystra....
of course ,Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul's evil scheming works to.
asfter all they all became gods, they hacked and slashed their way to godhood.
of course they all died, and Bane came back and Myrkul became a Sentient artifact of evilness ... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 22:31:19
|
Considering that Kymil is a mortal, he deserves credit for developing an excellent villain plan.
Personally I rank Vhostym's (The Sojourner) plan very highly. Epic evil plan! Use the weave tap to arrange the crown of flame... magnificent and complex!  |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 22:50:30
|
Cyric's plan with the Cyrinishad ranks up there... Yeah, his plan ultimately failed, but had it worked...
I may not like that opportunistic git, but that was a great idea of his. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2009 : 00:56:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric's plan with the Cyrinishad ranks up there... Yeah, his plan ultimately failed, but had it worked...
I may not like that opportunistic git, but that was a great idea of his.
Yes, thought about that one too!  Really nice plot. Especially liked Mask believing the Cyrinishad too!  |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
|
|
|
Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2009 : 01:08:05
|
The most memorable villains I've ever encountered were both presented by the same dungeon master... two different groups of characters, both played during 2nd Edition.
The first was a priest of Loviatar who fancied himself an anti-paladin. He fell in love with a member of the party and felt the best way to express it was to hurt her and everyone she knew (so, thus, the whole party) to impress her with how deep his feelings for her ran.
The second was just a greedy, conniving S.O.B. that wanted wealth and power... and persued his goals by following successful adventurers, trying to leech off their success, find any leftover goodies the party missed when searching a dungeon, and possibly get close enough to steal treasure maps and other valuables from the party itself. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2009 : 01:18:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric's plan with the Cyrinishad ranks up there... Yeah, his plan ultimately failed, but had it worked...
It worked until it failed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2009 : 02:37:38
|
| The best plans are the simplest ones. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
|
|
|
Inaubryn
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2009 : 17:31:05
|
The best plans are those that succeed. And, since the "bad guys" always lose to the "good guys", none of the plans were amazing. ;) Well, except that plan that guy had to buy up all the desert property in Nevada at really cheap prices, then sink California by launching warheads into the San Andreas fault, thereby making all of that real estate, beach front property and some of the most expensive real estate in the world, thus selling it at exorbitant prices and becoming the, richest real estate mogul and probably the richest man on the planet, while breaking into a museum to steal an artifact that was the weakness of the only one that could stop his diabolical scheme. Phew!
Oh wait. That was the plot of Superman. Sorry. But, that failed too. So... bad plan. Damn you, Ms. Teschmacher! |
Edited by - Inaubryn on 30 Mar 2009 17:33:37 |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 04:41:37
|
The Sojourner's plan from the Erevis Cale Trilogy is the vilest, most selfish, most callous plan ever concocted.
SPOILER (highlight):
The Sojourner kills tens of thousands of people and dozens of celestials in a quest to pull one of Selune's Tears in front of the sun. Why? He has a disease that (like a vampire) will cause him to deteriorate in sunlight. So, he remakes Faerun's cosmology so a Tear will cast a shadow over him and allow him to walk on the surface for one day before he dies. Just one day. And we as readers don't learn that this is what the whole sordid mess is about until he accomplishes it.
Sick. Brilliant. Course, Erevis kills him on the beach so that he cannot enjoy the entire day. But other than that, the Sojourner succeeds. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
Edited by - Arion Elenim on 31 Mar 2009 04:42:48 |
|
|
|
khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 07:44:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
The Sojourner's plan from the Erevis Cale Trilogy is the vilest, most selfish, most callous plan ever concocted.
SPOILER (highlight):
The Sojourner kills tens of thousands of people and dozens of celestials in a quest to pull one of Selune's Tears in front of the sun. Why? He has a disease that (like a vampire) will cause him to deteriorate in sunlight. So, he remakes Faerun's cosmology so a Tear will cast a shadow over him and allow him to walk on the surface for one day before he dies. Just one day. And we as readers don't learn that this is what the whole sordid mess is about until he accomplishes it.
Sick. Brilliant. Course, Erevis kills him on the beach so that he cannot enjoy the entire day. But other than that, the Sojourner succeeds.
It was an amazing plan. He finally got to do what he had been incapable of doing for thousands of years. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
|
|
|
skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 15:12:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
[It was an amazing plan. He finally got to do what he had been incapable of doing for thousands of years.
And I liked that he succeeded. Erevis killed him when he had already achieved what he wanted to.
I wonder, what kind of alignment Vhostym would have on a character sheet if one considers, that he does not think in terms of good or bad.
-
|
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 17:26:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
He has a disease that (like a vampire) will cause him to deteriorate in sunlight.
Well...(highlight)I thought it was an inherent quality of his race rather than a disease.
That said I quite agree with you. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 18:19:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
He has a disease that (like a vampire) will cause him to deteriorate in sunlight.
Well...(highlight)I thought it was an inherent quality of his race rather than a disease.
That said I quite agree with you.
Don't worry, I won't tell anyone. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2009 : 18:23:50
|
Oh...and I really hope that the harsh, intensely philophical tone of Kemp's novels (and specifically, his villains) creates a new standard in 4th ed.
The gray world is so much more fun to play in. We need more heroes like Erevis - more Heathcliffs in the Realms, less Aragorns. :D |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2009 : 09:32:54
|
| couldnt agree more.the realms resembles earth in so many ways but far too often good guys are good and bad guys are bad.no world real or imaginary should operate like that. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2009 : 11:42:12
|
| The Sojouner and Kymil plans are the best ones, IMO. ^^ |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2009 : 15:54:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
couldnt agree more.the realms resembles earth in so many ways but far too often good guys are good and bad guys are bad.
I actually don't see anything wrong with that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2009 : 16:42:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
couldnt agree more.the realms resembles earth in so many ways but far too often good guys are good and bad guys are bad.
I actually don't see anything wrong with that.
Indeed. The real world has too many hazy grey areas for my liking. It's nice to see something simpler... I'm not saying I object to grey areas in fiction; I just don't want them dominant. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2009 : 14:11:02
|
Myself, I really like the entire Mystran Temple in Weloon ploy. You might argue its unrealistic to remain undisturbed for so long, but still...
Especially the entire ritual part with Mystras Sacred Trust, with the stars in Mystras symbol representing known points of magic, but true knowledge resting hidden between the stars, and thus, the night.
Maybe not one of the most insidious and epic plots out there by itself, but the entire twisting into actual service to Shar just gets me. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
|
|
|
Iliyan
Acolyte
Croatia
42 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2009 : 18:30:20
|
| Ohh, strange that nobody mentioned Bane so far... His plans did come to life sorta. And he exploited a demigod to do it. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2009 : 20:16:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Iliyan
Ohh, strange that nobody mentioned Bane so far... His plans did come to life sorta. And he exploited a demigod to do it.
What plan is that? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 00:16:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Iliyan
Ohh, strange that nobody mentioned Bane so far... His plans did come to life sorta. And he exploited a demigod to do it.
What plan is that?
I think Iliyan might be referring to Bane's resurrection and the demise of Iyactu Xvim.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 00:51:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Iliyan
Ohh, strange that nobody mentioned Bane so far... His plans did come to life sorta. And he exploited a demigod to do it.
What plan is that?
I think Iliyan might be referring to Bane's resurrection and the demise of Iyactu Xvim.
Yeah, I figured as much... But I can't consider that an evil plan. We don't have any info about Bane's return. It could have been deliberate, or it could have been an accident. And there's also my favorite theory, that Bane hasn't returned at all -- it's a ploy by Xvim. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Apr 2009 00:53:49 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 01:03:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, I figured as much... But I can't consider that an evil plan. We don't have any info about Bane's return.
Agreed. At most, we have slight info in F&P. Not enough to completely justify that it was a plan on Bane's behalf, and also not enough to suggest that it may have been a completely unexpected turn of divine fate. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2009 : 19:45:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Shar's fooling Cyric into killing Mystra....
Where is this episode detailed? I've seen lots of abbreviated versions of it, but is this story told in detail somewhere? |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 00:22:04
|
| Not specifically. I assume sfdragon is merely piecing together the tidbits revealed through the entries in Grand History, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, and various online articles from WotC. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 01:39:04
|
Once Bane was resurrected, it kinda seemed like the church accomplished almost nothing in 10 years of 3rd edition...I mean, they did take the Black Network back, but that's king of just getting back to zero.
Am I missing something? |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 02:36:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Once Bane was resurrected, it kinda seemed like the church accomplished almost nothing in 10 years of 3rd edition...I mean, they did take the Black Network back, but that's king of just getting back to zero.
Am I missing something?
The supposed plot is Bane having arranged for his resurrection. I say "supposed" because we don't have enough information to make any kind of judgement on this -- as I said, his resurrection could have been a deliberate plan, a happy accident, or a scam perpetrated by Xvim to steal papa B's followers. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2009 : 05:21:37
|
| did Cyric *Murder* Mystra or did Cyric *Lie* about it?? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
What is the most amazing evil plan? (Spoilers)
