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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 13:55:33
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I was wondering if anyone knew what lvl Larloch is. It is stated in Lords of Darkness that he is lvl 32, but seem to remember that ED once sayd somthing about him being lvl 46 or something like that.
I need the info cause I want to use him in my epic campaing, and I feel that his char. in the book is way to low.
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 14:33:38
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| You can make him whatever level you want/need him to be, and the EL should be higher due to him having a plethora of Ioun stones circling him. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 14:46:50
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Nicolai, didn't you ask about this back in September? 
Anyways, Larloch doesn't have a specific level. When Ed wrote "He's probably a 46th level evil-aligned wizard right now", he didn't mean "This is Larloch's real definite level", it's a gesture to say "Larloch is extraordinarily dangerous, and in a different league from almost anyone else", just as he's portrayed in every other source.
He's meant more to be a legend than anything else; few hard facts.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 14:48:39
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Here's some further info from Ed that may prove useful:-
"Larloch is a onetime Netherese sorcerer (still possessed of a lot of Netherese scepters, which he knows how to make) who is now a quite insane "ultra-lich" (in this case, the term means he has many unknown powers which are up to you the DM, among them the fact that he can still learn and develop new spells, increase in levels, etc.). He's probably a 46th level evil-aligned wizard right now, and he crafted many of his own undead abilities prior to undeath, which argues that he found his own 'process' for achieving lichdom.
Larloch is served by many (60+ ?) liches, formerly archwizards, whom he guides in concert, as the leader of a telepathic-web 'Overmind.' Thus far, neither psionics nor mind-influencing magics have ever been effective against him or any of his serviotr mages, because the others in the link can withstand and overcome such influences, causing them to fail.
In theory, an attack could reach all of them through the link, but some quite powerful Red Wizards have tried and failed (Szass Tam didn't try such an attack, which may be why he survived...he remains fearful of approaching Larloch and his mages, but fascinated by the details of their lichdom, hoping it might yield him some powers.)
One of Larloch's given-to-himself powers (which - in a long, involved, and secret, personally-developed process - cost him 10 years of life and some vitality, irrelevant of course given his goal of lichdom) is automatic spell reflection (of all magic cast upon him). He can by act of will override this ability, for example when he wants to work a spell on himself; otherwise, it always operates.
Mystra (Midnight's predecessor as the goddess) is said to have allowed Larloch to acquire powers approaching those of "old Netheril" in return for 'leaking' spells to persistent adventurers he or his minions might come into contact with, but this may be no more than rumour spread by the Zhents or Red Wizards or Dragon Cultists, designed to lure adventurers into Larloch-weakening forays...
As for Larloch knowing the identities and locations of other liches/Netherese survivors...no, only the one's he's destroyed. Larloch is too self-centered to hunt down folks who don't come within his easy reach. He controls plenty of archwizards/liches already, but may decide to try to either control or destroy a new one when they come into contact. He seems to be pursuing other goals, however. Which ones? That's up to each DM....."
Larloch and his lich minions have no interest in attracting attention that would waste their time and magical resources (and perhaps, if word got around how dangerous they were, even threaten their existence in the face of a concerted attack from various magical power groups working together). Larloch is not interested in ruling Faerun...but he IS interested in creating and controlling a series of magical gates linking many worlds (parallel Prime Material Planes) and Outer Planes...and so rigging their enchantments that anyone using them comes under his control/faces his forceful removal of their magic items, information from their mind, and so forth. The gates are easy for him to create (he licked all of those problems long ago). The control enchantments have been giving him troubles for thousands of years now, and as an obsessive perfectionist, he isn't going to let this rest until he gets everything just so...nor is he going to create the gates until he's ready to put the controls on them.
In short, he's a munchkin only if played that way. All Player Characters have to learn sometime that there are folks in the Realms just too powerful to tangle with.
I'm reminded of the original Realms campaign, and the Company of Crazed Venturers attacking Shaan the Serpent-Queen (who briefly appeared in a Wizards Three DRAGON article). She was busy working magic on a small island off Mintarn. They attacked, broke her concentration, and she looked up with an irritated frown. They bid her stop, or they'd destroy what she was working on; to demonstrate, one of the Company mages touched (and disintegrated) a stone he was standing beside.
She shook her head in derision, and touched the island beneath them, disintegrating IT, and dumping the Company into the chilly sea waves for a long swim...whilst she turned back to her spellcasting, floating on nothing and ignoring them once more.
A heavy-handed lesson, but...well, Larloch's in the same league, and more. Just consider him a power of the Realms and Don't Go There.
Ed" |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 15:37:52
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Larloch clearly has a degree of favor from Mystra, and between he and his liches, he's prolly got enough horsepower to successfully challenge a deity.
Ed has also all but openly stated that Larloch is containing something. It could be that this is why he's been allowed to have such powers as being able to reflect back all magic thrown at him.
With all that power and the fact that he's holding something back, it's entirely possible that Mystra and perhaps some of the other deities wouldn't want anyone taking down Larloch.
Larloch, as described by Ed, should be beyond the abilities of even a large party of epic characters. And with Mystra's favor, it's quite likely that such characters would be divinely warned away from attacking him, if it was possible for them to succeed. I can readily see Mystra sending signs to warn the PCs off, perhaps even culminating in them being stripped of magic.
Larloch is not there to be attacked. Attacking him should be like trying to stop a volcanic eruption with a single squirt gun and only a gallon of water. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 15:47:18
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Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.
One of his current 'plots' revolves around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faerūn. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly. In the sense that he'll be doing a couple of things:-
1. Monitoring people movement; who goes where and more importantly, why;
2. Putting in place magics to control creatures or people using 'his' portals, or at the very least access their knowledge/memories;
3. Using his knowledge of portals and portal networks to bring groups or individuals into conflict and thereby benefiting from the fallout.
All of this is intended to be done without the hand of Larloch being apparent.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 17:13:04
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I could not remember that I have asked it before.. sorry about that, but thanks for all the info! Its great, some of it is new to me some is not, but anyways... more lore, more coolness in the game!
One more question thou... would you, in a situation where larloch him self were needed to cast spells, use the spells in the game or just describe what happened to the charracters when struck? It seen only fair that he just affects the intruders without using "Canon" spells!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 17:42:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
I could not remember that I have asked it before.. sorry about that, but thanks for all the info! Its great, some of it is new to me some is not, but anyways... more lore, more coolness in the game!
One more question thou... would you, in a situation where larloch him self were needed to cast spells, use the spells in the game or just describe what happened to the charracters when struck? It seen only fair that he just affects the intruders without using "Canon" spells!
Neither. He's got 60+ liches. Let them deal with intruders. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 18:21:28
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Yeah - Larloch was meant to be the 'Big Bad' of the Campaign world - one that you only heard about in hushed-whispers, not someone you ever actually considered going after.
Larloch is a very effective Uber-tool in the DM's arsenal... not some 'monster' you encounter in a dungeon.
As to what he's holding back... I hope it wasn't Abeir.
If thats the case, all his well-laid machinations proved to no avail when Mystra came tumbling down. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 19:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As to what he's holding back... I hope it wasn't Abeir.
All denizens of Abeir are secretly minions of Larloch.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 19:44:01
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Its not like I would ever go against him with my char. or let anyone else go after him when Im DM'ing, it was more a question abount the mechanics... I would just tell the characters interacting with larloch, be this hostile or not what transpired and not tell then that he was casting this and that spell..
But what would you do?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 19:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Its not like I would ever go against him with my char. or let anyone else go after him when Im DM'ing, it was more a question abount the mechanics... I would just tell the characters interacting with larloch, be this hostile or not what transpired and not tell then that he was casting this and that spell..
But what would you do?
Again, I'd not have them deal with Larloch. Why should he deal with them? He's doing his own stuff, and he's got 60+ liches at his command. If he felt a need to communicate with the PCs, I think he'd either use some sort of project image, or send one of the liches. There is no need for him to physically be in the presence of the PCs. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 20:32:07
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| so you guys know, larloch has for services to mystra been given a copy of the first complete set of the nether scrolls. and he know to have part of the second with him. |
Purple you say?!
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 20:33:49
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| Larloch is also very keen to see spellfire that is one thing he can not use. |
Purple you say?!
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 20:37:11
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| from what the sage has said larloch would very much like to learn what the twisted rune has forcefully learn from halaster. use the stardock accessory free download from wizard website |
Purple you say?!
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 20:46:34
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| on regards to meeting larlochi would do as ed would let them meet him be fantastic if the pc pee him off make him cast a gender change spell on them something like that and teleport them to a brothel in the middle of baldurs gate. be funny about it. over hall give them the chance but let them know the dire consequences of peeing him off. |
Purple you say?!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2009 : 22:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
One more question thou... would you, in a situation where larloch him self were needed to cast spells, use the spells in the game or just describe what happened to the charracters when struck? It seen only fair that he just affects the intruders without using "Canon" spells!
Well, firstly, Ed's notes would seem to indicate that the liches that serve Larloch are quite capable of engaging in any particular situation involving direct combat. They're all archwizards, so I wouldn't think that Larloch would worry too much about something like this.
As for spells, Ed pretty much answered that as well:- "... in this case, the term means he has many unknown powers which are up to you the DM, among them the fact that he can still learn and develop new spells, increase in levels, etc." So I'd imagine anything that would be necessary for your campaign would be relevant at this point, so long as the tale involving Larloch was crafted well and supports good role-playing. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2009 : 12:13:43
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| Hey, feel free to have your PCs eventually meet Larloch. If it is to be a battle, it would make for a great super epic final confrontation to end a campaign (and said confrontation could very well go either way). Make it memorable. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 06:31:47
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| Edit: I just realized that the info I pointed out had already been mentioned. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 08 Mar 2009 06:38:25 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 17:12:26
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1) I would possibly use Larloch, if I ever had a campaign run long-enough where the PCs were of sufficient level (at LEAST 15) so as not to be 'beneath his notice'.
2) In such an encounter, I do NOT use stats - I would run Larloch the way I have run gods (and I have only done so twice). Basically, I would use him as a plot-device to help an adventure along, be it the beginning, middle, or end of such a story-arc, and also build-in a reason why he wouldn't want them dead (attaching some-sort of prophesy to one of the PCs should do the trick - and provide a future plothook). Anything they tried to do againts him would be either stopped or ignored (most spells would simply be sucked-into his various magical devices, which he has hundreds of). He would just act as if anything they threw at him was irrelevant (because it IS), get his business with them over with, and then snap his fingers... and they'd be on a mountain-top in Halrua, or the Jungles of Maztica, or the Great Anvil of Zakhara...
3) I mentioned this above, but it's important enough to warrant its own entry - Larloch MUST have a reason for wanting to keep the PCs alive - I simply cannot stress this enough. If he actually considered them a threat (which I doubt), or even just a nuisance, he would have some of his minions swat them like insects - you do not even get near Larloch unless he wants you to. Your best bet would be to connect the PCs to some 'future event' Larloch has forseen, and wishes to keep them intact for. It cannot be something as mundane as their 'connections' (even if one of them is of royal blood - he would laugh at that), or some artifact they have (but it could be one they will someday get... which he could then take from them...)
4) Halaster is one of the few beings on Toril that could possibly 'worry' Larloch, so I think him keeping tabs on the Mad mage is not only feasible, but entirely warranted. Halaster is old enough to consider Larloch a 'young wippersnapper' - there are probably Liches in Faerūn older then Larloch who were Halithir's apprentices! He was casting epic magic before Larloch was even born, and has probably been to worlds that larloch can only dream of. What drives Larloch to even further consternation is that Halaster doesn't feel the same way about him - Halaster doesn't even pay attention to Larloch's existance... which just worries Larloch all the more.
How powerful is someone that could ignore 'a god'? 
This is the true beauty of Ed's creation - no matter how big and bad you are, there is probably someone out there bigger and badder. Halister is the crazy-insane counter point to Larloch's cold, calculating mind. If Larloch is the Realms 'Evil Batman', then Halaster is his Joker. His is the only mind that Larloch can't build contingencies against - you can't out-think a madman. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Mar 2009 21:38:19 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 20:21:26
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"If Larloch is the Realms 'Evil Batman', then Halaster is his Joker."
YES! Someone finally gets it! This is EXACTLY what Brian Thomsen, then-head of TSR Books, said to Ed years back, and Ed smilingly confirmed.
Markustay, you win a kiss, and a cuddle, and a good long caress (of me or by me, your choice  ), whenever we meet.
love,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 21:41:15
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I am SO going to Gencon this year... even if I have to hitchhike the whole way.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 22:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
This is the true beauty of Ed's creation - no matter how big and bad you are, there is probably someone out there bigger and badder. Halister is the crazy-insane counter point to Larloch's cold, calculating mind. If Larloch is the Realms 'Evil Batman', then Halaster is his Joker. His is the only mind that Larloch can't build contingencies against - you can't out-think a madman.
-Reminds me of GothicDan's old sig from the Wizards Forums. To bad thats been pretty much done away with now huh? 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 23:25:56
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Not to get another One vs. the other treat started, but you mention Halaster as someone in the same league. I was under the impresion that no one was in the legue of Larloch. Szazz Tam and Ioulaum seems to be ad least a powerful.
What is you take on this.
Im sorry to delve into thise power NPSs, but find the lore and history about the interesting! |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 23:37:58
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If you players don't want to go against Larloch directly but 'hurt' him then why not get them meddling in Larlochs obsession with the control of gates (portals).
They would be supported by Flamsterd 'of the Isles' who also dislikes Larloch's plans and is a great way of introducing high level characters to other movers and shakers in the Realms, allowing the campaign to reach epic levels and have the good guys supporting and advising the players (if required?)
Just a thought
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2009 : 06:32:03
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Nicolai, saying that any of those individuals you named is 'more' or 'less' powerful may or may not be true: After all, Szass Tam politely asked Larloch for aid, and recieved it, after watching what happened to those who irritated him.
Having said that, it's like a conversation during the Cold War: Which is 'more powerful, NATO, or Warsaw?' Who cares, when either one has enough nukes to kill the world? I'd say all those you mentioned are in that vein. The fact that one is 10 levels higher than another or not is immaterial, as all of them are supra-genius epic spellcasters of ruinous age.
The 'who would win in a fight' question shouldn't ever come up, for the simple reason that none of these folks made it to where they are by taking chances. Could Larloch turn Szass Tam into a scorchmark? Sure, unless Tam got lucky, or had a desperate plan that Larloch misunderstood, or whatever. Even if he wins that battle 99.99% of the time, Larloch isn't gonna fight it unless there's a clear reason to do so, and Tam is unlkely to give Larloch one.
The wild card, as always, is Halaster. Since he's nuttier than a tree full of squirrels, he might do anything at any time: Then again, he, Larloch, Aumvor, Ioulam, and the others have been sharing Faerun for a long time without it ever coming to that, so why start now? Especially when it's so much MORE a test of worth to pit your long-rang planning and minions against your rival, since that way he lives to fight another day, and your star shines the brighter for having your defeated foe as a point of comparison to your greatness.
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How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 08 Mar 2009 06:37:27 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2009 : 07:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Markustay, you win a kiss, and a cuddle, and a good long caress (of me or by me, your choice ), whenever we meet.
Any wagers on how many Scribes show up at GenCon this year with MarkusTay nametags? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 19:08:14
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HEY!!! No stealing my cuddles! 
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Not to get another One vs. the other treat started, but you mention Halaster as someone in the same league. I was under the impresion that no one was in the legue of Larloch. Szazz Tam and Ioulaum seems to be ad least a powerful.
What is you take on this.
Im sorry to delve into thise power NPSs, but find the lore and history about the interesting!
Larloch is in Mystra's service, and he is monitoring all portal activity, and has a 'mission' to "gaurd against something".
Halaster is an Archmage from a culture that pre-dated Larlochs by a few thousand years, and has seen worlds and magics that the Netherease could only dream of. Halaster is also in control of a LOT of portals and was "Shar's Creature" until recently (the events of EiH).
You do the math.
Larloch's not exactly a 'good guy', and Halaster is not exactly a 'bad guy' (things in FR are not nearly so B&W), but what we have here is one of the most brilliant minds Toril has ever produced pitted against one of it's most insane.
Ergo, my 'Batman vs The Joker' comparison.
Also, add in the fact that Halaster is sitting on top of one of the most powerful (and still functional) Netherease Mythalars ever created - one he has greatly modified to his own ends - and you can see immediately what Larloch's interest would be.
My Theory:
Mystra has charged Larloch to watch, monitor, and collect EVERYTHING Netherease, and makes sure the "mistakes of the past" are NEVER repeated. I have a feeling he is a 'Secret Chosen', and hence why the other Chosen have a 'hands off' policy regarding him. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Mar 2009 19:10:44 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 19:43:04
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| Danm... Is Halater realy that old. If he is from before Netheril, that would mean that at that time only elves had magic... riht? So is he half elven or... Or did I just roll a natural 1 on my knowledge history check??? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 19:57:42
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He's from Imaskar, and their culture is nearly 10,000 years old!
It preceded even the original Coramshan (modern-day Calimshan) by 550 years... they are the oldest recorded human civilization on Toril, and only the Tuigan culture has an earlier dating (although I would hesitate to call anything they had a 'Civilization').
While the Netherease gleened their knowledge from the Nether Scrolls - information compiled from THREE Creator Races, the Imaskari got their knowledge from the Fey (Darkvision), a race that may have been ancient before even the rise of the other 'Creators'.
Their civilized periods only over-lapped by a few centuries, and they had no dealings with each other, and the only canon entry concerning both was unfortunately omitted from the final print-version of the GHotR.
Suffice it to say that while the Netherease attempted to usurp the power of gods (which ended quite badly), the Imaskari mocked the gods and barred them from Realmspace... BARRED THEM!
They didn't want deity-level power... they already had it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Mar 2009 20:02:21 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 23:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Danm... Is Halater realy that old. If he is from before Netheril, that would mean that at that time only elves had magic... riht? So is he half elven or... Or did I just roll a natural 1 on my knowledge history check???
Essentially, it was suspected that Halaster was a survivor of the Imaskari. Numerous sources and comments made by game designers [like Steven Schend] pretty much unofficially confirmed it.
Here's the breakdown of references:-
"Ruins of Undermountain says, "Some say Halaster came from Netheril, others from the far east. Still others hold that he hailed from the Cradlelands, vanished human kingdoms now buried beneath Raurin and The Plains of Purple Dust."
Page 4 of Stardock, "Aquitiocrun is an ancient Raurinese word that translates as 'place where treasure is kept.' However, other words and phrases also can say the same; the word aqitiocrun specifically refers to the Raurinese pictographic symbol that is often marked on maps and treasure chamber doors within Raurin's ruins."
Page 29 of Stardock, "Therefore, the DM can determine if they have learned what they need to know; if much more time has gone on, the liches may be plumbing further secrets about Undermountain, Skullport, Raurin, and other secrets of Halaster's life."
From the mailing list in 2000 "The biggest hint (in print) re Halaster's origins can be found in the adventure "Stardock". This adventure clearly shows Halster's links with Raurin and hence Imaskar.
Eric Boyd had a Dragon article in the works about a year ago which amongst other things dealt with some magic items that Hilather created when he was working for the Shoon .... I doubt it will ever see the light of day now though ....
-- George Krashos"
From the mailing list in 2001: "Sigh.... This isn't a fact to be nailed down, folks. Ed & I intended that Halaster be whatever the GMs needed him to be for their games. THAT'S why his status in Stardock revealed so many mad images and forms that he could be anything to anyone.
Yes, he's old enough to have been from Netheril. He's actually old enough to have come from the Imaskari lands as well. Just because he has Netherese contemporaries doesn't prove anything about his origins. His secrets are so long lost (or at least well hidden) that's it's almost irrelevant to discuss what he was 1400 years ago....unless you want to do new things with him in regards to 3E changes.....but that's up to you, not any official canon.
Steven Schend
Whose obfuscations in the service of the DM seem to only cause confusion rather than relief and freedom."
Indeed he might ... *lol* When I usually make up stuff on the fly or present my own FR creations, I say so. With respect to Halaster however, there was a clear general trend established by Steven Schend (and I say trend) to make him Raurinese. Steven's "Stardock" adventure gave the most blatant clues but there is also Steven's post on "The Seven Imaskarna" (which was originally a piece of fluff on the old TSR FR webpage frontpiece. His write-up to the FR List ended with this little piece of prose:
'Elminster's surprisingly close-mouthed about the truth of the matter, so he either doesn't know the answer or simply enjoys dribbling enough lore to whet the appetite without fully sating it. He did smirk about Synnaros' theory, and said, "I have seen one of these giant stone sages of Imaskar, aye. Whether it be one of Seven or an Imaskarcana at all is for someone of more rarified interest than mine own. Of course, ye can only get answers out of it if ye know the tongue of the Imaskari, for it only recognizes that tongue. There be only one Faerunian living or dead who might teach it to ye, and he's hardly one to welcome ye for a lesson while he wanders about the Underhalls......"
So, IMHO there is a lot more pointing to Halaster being from Raurin/Imaskar than to him being from Netheril. As previously mentioned by me on the FR List, Eric Boyd had written up a series of magic items for a proposed Dragon article that never got published. This article explicitly states that Halaster was Hilather and Hilather was from Raurin. He also BTW crafted Kuraltaar "the Demonshield", now in the hoard of Iryklathgra "Sharpfangs".
But then again, if you want Halaster to be Netherese, go for it, there's nothing really stopping you.
-- George Krashos"
-- All in all, it's pretty much confirmed now, as of Dragons of Faerūn. Hilather [Halaster], in the write-up of Kuraltaar the Demonshield, is noted as being Raurinese.
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