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Tonak
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 09:53:36
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I am currently running a campaign in Forgotten Realms 3.5 Screw 4.0 . I started this campaign, due to the fact that a few of the player weren't enjoying prior gaming sessions due to two facts.
A) They were getting tired of the Old Hack and Slash method where the whole game session, was dice rolling, That ones dead, that ones dead. Oh no i got hit. They wanted more than to just kill things they wanted to Roleplay.
B) The fact that some of the Players in the other campaigns Truly never roleplayed even when lead by example or offered experience points as a reward for playing.
The Solution to these problems seemed to be simple. Talk with all the players and let them know we are starting a new campaign that is simply not going to working like the ones prior. We are going to call this style of gameplay a political campaign, where there is little or no combat. That was a bit of an overstatement, designed to lure a couple of players into not joining this campaign, and a couple of players to change the style and hopefully roleplay. As a prerequisite For this campaign i wanted in-depth backgrounds, and even samples of there characters personality.
Here we are, A new campaign started, with four people. Two Rangers, One Barbarian and a Fighter/Rouge.
I have put great emphasis as to the background of the two of the players, which is currently leading them on a journey of self discovery, while the third player is a Missing Link so to speak and the Fourth player will be coming into play at the next game session.
But I've been resorting to old habits, What i am asking for here is advice on keeping the characters in character more often, but scenarios and how to run scenarios, where the characters must solve problems whilist roleplaying, but not killing poopy. I still want to keep combat incorporated into the game, but i want it to be more of a climatic effect, more of an addition to plotline, rather then, lets go raid a dungeon and have 13 sequential fights... But i want to do this in a manner that will keep the players interested, while i know they want what i am trying to offer this is still transitional for them too.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
Oh and a little background to the story. Two Rangers, were raised by a man, one of which believes that this man is his blood father. The other who is an asamir, knows it is not his blood father. From a young age they were told by this man that one day they would have to leave this place, and trained them to survive for that day to come. The day came and they left, heading towards the twin peaks in the high forest, in search of the pool at the top that was rumored to reflect not the present, but the past, they were to learn the past of the asamir. On the way there, they were asaulted by a group of different creatures. It was a very organized attack, and there father figure sacrificed himself so that the two may get away. They ventured to the top of the Twin peaks, and looked within the pool of reflection. (At this point i was thinking i wanted to do some sort of Baldurs gate rip off and have them both be children of a dead god, a huge suprise to the non asamir. but now i am having doubts of how it would work with the current pantheon) What they saw was a beautiful women, kissing a male flash, kissing another male flash, ect... and then they saw her giving birth, And they saw her shatter in a beam of white light. When they awoken They arrived near an inn, which was where their father figure was to take them to meet a friend. Instead of meeting the individual the father intended they met the barbarian who was sent by the figure to safeguard them. From there he was to travel to waterdeep and await a messenger which would reveal this individuals location. On the way to waterdeep they were attacked by a group of freelancers, and upon defeating these freelancers, they discovered a peice of parchment with pictures of the two brothers faces, declaring a bounty on their heads of 10,000 gold peices. The asamir was also posioned by an arrow of magical sorts (Yet to determine the significance of this one) They arrive in waterdeep and make it to an Inn.
This is where the last game session ended.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
Mod edit: Watch the language, please. 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 21 Feb 2009 17:20:25
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 15:23:08
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Location is key in a game of this sort. The further the pc's are from civilisation the harder it is to avoid hack and slash encounters. It is one thing to be attacked in an alleyway where after the encounter you walk round a corner into a shop and get right back into character. If you are in the wilderness and investigate a cave it is very hard to stay in character when you spend most of your time rolling dice for spot checks, initative or attack rolls. Dungeons and ruins are even worse where it is room after room of monsters with no real roleplay involved. 
I have had similar problems and have discussed similar issues in threads on the site already.
The biggest problem I have had was with the players. The game I want to run and they game they want to play are generally not the same thing. Also all players are different and have wildly different views even in a close roleplay group.
Well done for weeding out some troubling elements in the group but even well meaning players may not have your passion for roleplay vs 'roll'play. Have you spoken to them about what they want?
Anyway the best advice is that if you want pc's to be civilised, then surround them with civilisation. Hopefully in Waterdeep that shouldn't be to much of an issue. 
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Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 19:02:07
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Wrigs makes a good point. The city has lots of NPCs for the players to interact with. That's not a guarantee of roleplaying though. Players often simply talk directly to the DM. They treat the NPC as if he were on the telephone with the DM, and the DM were having to relay the conversation. Be on the look out for sentences where the players tell you what they want to say instead of simply saying it to the NPC, or ones where they refer to the NPC in the third person.
"I tell him I would like to purchase his best sword."
"How much does he want for the sword?"
If they fall into that manner of speaking, remind them to talk to the NPC instead of you.
The best way to get them to talk to him, though, is to be him. You don't have to be a professional actor to do that well. It's not a stage performance, you just need to get across a couple of basic character traits to bring him alive. Go for the easy ones: pompous, braggart, hick, nervous, jovial, etc...
Like the players, you also have to avoid talking about the NPC like you have him on the telephone. Don't say: "He tells you blah, blah, blah." Just give them the "blah, blah, blah" directly.
I do these things pretty well in a small groups of one or two players with whom I feel comfortable. In larger groups I feel more self-conscious. If you have that problem, and if the players are having a problem with it, it might be a good idea to tackle it head on by having a session devoted to set piece conversations where you can just practice talking to each other in character.
I know of one group where the DM requires the players to hold up both hands, fingers outstretched, and thumbs against the sides of their heads, like moose antlers, in order to speak out of character. If they forget, they have to put a dollar in the collection jar. It's a bit extreme, but it forces them to think about whether what they are saying is in character or out of character. :)
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 19:50:54
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It sounds like you're looking to play a Batman style game, amirite? Suspense and detective work that all builds up to cornering the villain before he can finish hatching his nefarious scheme and pummeling him into the dirt!
If you ever find yourself tapped out of ideas, I'll give you a little cheat code: make The Joker. Just don't CALL him The Joker of course, rename him and make him a Cyricist Strifebringer. Push the envelope of creepy insanity as far as your group can handle it and let them "foil" him a few times without ever getting their hands on him, so he can always seem a step ahead but your players won't feel frustrated and ineffectual.
Then when they finally corner him, they'll remember it for a long long time. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 20:07:39
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Religion is always a handy tool with roleplay heavy-campaigns. Giving characters moral choices left and right will really hinder the urge to draw steel on everything that walks by, particularly with morally ambiguous PCs.
And as Drasek Riven once said, 'nothing's bigger than the personal'. I recommend throwing in the personal curve balls too: family, lovers, purely legal problems, moderate types of personal betrayal Examples: The paladin discovers his father begat a bastard son on a cleric of of an evil god and must reconcile having a half-sibling in an opposing faith, the particularly lawful monk is accused of a crime she didn't commit and may have to break out of prison (breaking the law) to stop a greater tragedy from happening outside the walls, a shifty sorceror is discovers his sister has been imprisoned by a royal family and will be executed in secret unless he assassinates the party's barbarian, the long-lost son of a rival king. These are examples of ways to 'light the match' of your campaign.
And don't forget to let the PCs guide the game - if they've written up personal histories (MAKE THEM DO THIS if they haven't already), then you can tailor make the campaign to their lives before they became adventurers.
Oh...and the Joker's name in 3.x is 'Mask'. For the record. :D |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
Edited by - Arion Elenim on 21 Feb 2009 20:11:01 |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 21:48:56
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Whaaaaat?! Mask is way too mentally together to be the Joker! He isn't interested in anarchy for anarchy's sake, he wants to make the big score and get paid.
Joker would blow up the bank just to watch the money burn. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
Edited by - Raith on 26 Feb 2009 16:00:49 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 22:20:31
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A City, or at the very least a large town, is extremely important to an intrigue campign (thats what they are really called, but you can go with 'political' if your players dig it).
If you need a dungeon once in awhile, go with Waterdeep - the 'Dungeon' is larger then the freakin' city! And you can go as deep as you want - a bunch of connected cellers (leading, lets say, from a temple of Umberlee, to a sea-cave with smugglers), to a maze of sewer-tunnels (always fun), to full-blown Undermountain extravaganza.
Also remember - rooftops in a city become a 'dungeon' of sorts at night, with all types of 'urban monsters' lurking about. 
Also, bait-and-switch is a good play for this, with a lot of people not being who they appear to be - either 'good guys' undercover, or 'bad guys' in positions of authority (which could be as mundane as a corrupt official, to an all-out Dopplganger invasion!)
I've done a lot of both types of games over years, slowly moving from the encounter-based (4e) style in my early days of running Greyhawk, to my last campaign that had so many levels of intrigue even I lost track of who was working for who. 
The main difference is wilderness vs. Urban - you need people to make roleplay work (unless your players are fond of chatting with Orcs and Goblins). Also, it helps if you can do personalities and 'funny voices' - that stuff goes over big. I usually tell beggining DMs to join a Drama club or some-such - acting is an EXTREMELY important skill for an Intrigue-DM.
However, don't go overboard - every once in awhile get their butts out of the city for some old-school monster-bashing. Doesn't matter what excuse you use ("the bandits took my Jewels into the Forbidden Forest!"), as long as you don't over-do it. You can usually see when players are starting to bog-down in a long-running urban story-arc, and thats when you should send them on a 'field trip'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2009 05:47:04 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 01:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Raith
It sounds like you're looking to play a Batman style game, amirite? Suspense and detective work that all builds up to cornering the villain before he can finish hatching his nefarious scheme and pummeling him into the dirt!
If you ever find yourself tapped out of ideas, I'll give you a little cheat code: make The Joker. Just don't CALL him The Joker of course, rename him and make him a Cyricist Strifebringer. Push the envelope of creepy insanity as far as your group can handle it and let them "foil" him a few times without ever getting their hands on him, so he can always seem a step ahead but your players won't feel frustrated and ineffectual.
Then when they finally corner him, they'll remember it for a long long time.
As much as I'm a total Batman geek, I don't think that the Joker archetype always works. Joker is clearly insane, which can be used to explain away his actions. A villain that is all there but does horrific things anyway has much more impact, if you're looking for that kind of roleplaying, because they appear as logical beings that simply choose to do terrible things. If the game is supposed to be a little more lighthearted, though, its probably not a good idea to throw in that kind of villain. |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 03:46:49
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It seems really diverse, the kind of villains a group may find interesting. It really all depends on the group's cohesiveness and theway they work together. Something I found helpful in a campaign I've been in was a 'lesser of two evils' thing.
We were facing something horribly, unbearably evil. And to face this, we had to ally with many people we didn't like, including a VERY sly and effective priest of Cyric, who corrupted our priest. He was the lesser of two evils and an ally, but also a VERY dangerous enemy on his own. It put us all on edge and kept suspense high, |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 05:54:36
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Also, when you're going 'urban', you may want to consider RW 'monsters'.
Serial Killers, Slashers, rapists, molesters, or just plain old-fashioned bad-tepered pimps and thugs with crossbows.
There's a particularly gruesome character in one of the Thieves World novels - Kurd, the Vivisectionist. Just your typical human, with no martial or arcane powers... who just happens to want to learn how the human body works...
It really depends on how 'dark' you want to go, but usually in a city, your not looking at 'beasties', but rather the worst side of humanity. You can always make your 'mad doctor' a Gnome, or your 'Slasher' a nutty member of the Eldreth Veluuthra (or rather, a memebr who is nuttier then usual), if you want to 'lighten' it up a tad.
It always seems less 'evil' when non-humans are doing the gross things. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2009 17:04:54 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 19:18:45
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The joy of a city like Waterdeep is that you can always include monsters in the sewers or as guild masters. Nobody would think it unreasonable to find a beholder as a thief guild master. Also as pointed out humans can make the worst 'monsters' a pc can face.  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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maglaurus
Acolyte
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 22:53:16
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May I suggest political intrigue as a cure for the Hack n' Slash blues? Fantasy literature like "A Game of Thrones" presents great examples of how politics and adventure can mix. Frank Herbert's Dune novels also demonstrate great political intrigue. It doesn't have to be world-spanning though; it can be about two merchants vying for control of a district in Waterdeep (perhaps with overtones of Romeo and Juliet). Farm land is also something that produces conflict for resources, and the nice thing there is that you have wide enough spaces to incorporate a few random encounters dug-in orc tribes or monsters. At the same time, stories about organized crime can provide seeds for urban adventures--especially in places like Waterdeep.
Another tact you can take to avoid the Hack n' Slash traditions of D&D might be moving refugees. Instead of just traveling from point A to point B and fighting off monsters, players have to settle disputes and conflicts in terms of the refugees themselves and wherever they want to end up. Perhaps the noble who's farmlands were burned by a dragon attack was not well liked by his peers, so when the adventurers come knocking at the castle door with a hundred surviving serfs there's some negotiating that needs to be done--or perhaps the serfs don't care for the noble house of the neighboring barony. |
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Dkonen
Acolyte
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 15:24:07
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There's an easy way to avoid Hack n' Slash style. Have your players either talk to NPCs or have NPCs talk to them. Maybe someone recognizes them and sidles up to give aid or a few "hints". If you put the hints in conversations and delivered through things other than combat, then the players will have to interact to get to the bottom of it. If they really don't want to roleplay however, you can't force them.
If they do, just making up a few NPCs with well developed personalities and quirks can get them started. If they're both rangers, perhaps a priest or priestess of their diety would have information, or maybe they have some unexpected allies slip them a note under a tankard for a secret meeting. If you want non violent conflict, maybe they find that shops are closed to them (and they desperately need some particular item being sold), or they are being accused of a crime by a noble who has it in for them (and are thrown in jail until they can prove their innocence), or... the possibilities are endless. Movies and novels can give a number of ideas to run with if you run out, most of them being easily swapped around if the characters have a definable motivation and goal in mind. |
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Tired of Hack and Slash
