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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 03:17:51
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So when I heard about Expedition to Undermountain coming out in 3.5, I just about did backflips. My campaign had been stationed in Waterdeep for a long time, and I figured that the "biggest mass grave" in the realms" would be the perfect challenge for a high level party.
...then of course I got the book in my hands.
Not only is this thing for low levels, but it's damn near unusable! Am I just not smart enough to see how the encounters are supposed to be organized from room to room? Whats the deal here?
I kept it because at least it's got some maps and it's (in my mind at least) technically still a part of FR. Has anybody made a GOOD version of 3.0/3.5 Undermountain that I could get my hands on?
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"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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Lord Nemes
Seeker
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 03:52:32
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Hello Raith,
In my opinion the easiest way to run a 3.5 campaign in Undermountain is still to use the 2e ed boxed set and replace encounter with your own. I think buying the box (used on ebay or other) is a good investment. With those maps you can keep your party busy for months if not years. I was also disapointed with the 3.5 product.
On a side note: my players and I also enjoyed a lot the Lost Level module (2e ed)
Hope it helps
Lord Nemes |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 04:12:48
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Hello there Nemes! You know, I'd had the same thought myself, and had been kicking it around for some time now. If it turns out that no die-hard fan has put himself through all the trouble of updating Undermountain (either by rewriting the 3.5 train-wreck or bringing the old boxed sets up to 3.0) I'll probably go to the trouble of doing so myself, after purchasing the old sets.
And of course to be honest, I love buying up old 1e/2e stuff anyway!
The problem with that though, is it would take an awful lot of work, and it might cause a real speed bump with the two campaigns I'm currently DMing. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
Edited by - Raith on 21 Feb 2009 04:14:50 |
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Lord Nemes
Seeker
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 04:34:55
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| Conversion isn't always that hard or that long. I mean if you have a basilik in 2ed you can replace with the 3e basilik of the MM. What's longer is converting NPC of magical object (maybe the magical objects will be one of the few bit you can from the 3.5 Return to Undermountain. One more thing is that the boxed set is full of undetailed rooms so if the box is new for you, you can put your own "evil" no mather the edition. And from my experience, PC can't advance very fast in these hall... don't know why but there's always something to fall on them. Make them fell they want to go there... an then make them feel they want to go out... There should be fun... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 04:38:17
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I never got all that far into reading that book... Not only did the apparently pointless death of Halaster bother me, but it simply lacked the flavor of the true Undermountain source, the original Ruins of Undermountain boxed set. I was also quite bugged by the first few pages I read -- after noting which kinds of magic can't be used from inside of Undermountain to outside of it, there was an NPC listed who was using one of those bits of magic to communicate with someone in the city above. 
Oh, and I hated the whole "encounter format" thing they had going on with the last 3.5E books. Rather than making me flip back and forth while running the encounter (which somehow wasn't a problem before), I had to flip back and forth from the room description to the encounter. Yeah, there's an improvement.  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 21 Feb 2009 04:40:13 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 04:53:01
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I was a little disappointed that it seemed like the foreshadowing that they did in the book didn't get followed through on. Ostensibly, Halaster saw a major catastrophe coming, and was killed before he could prevent it, with the unspoken connection being that Halaster saw the Spellplague on the horizon.
But, given what actually happened, wouldn't Halaster just need to say "Hey, Mystra, don't let Cyric sneak into Dweomerheart," and end the threat?
It led to to believe that, perhaps, there was going to be a deeper, more Realmslore rooted explanation for the Spellplague, which was later scrapped for a "simplified" explanation. Which in turn makes Halaster's death pointless, other than to get rid of yet another established NPC. |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 05:06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I was a little disappointed that it seemed like the foreshadowing that they did in the book didn't get followed through on. Ostensibly, Halaster saw a major catastrophe coming, and was killed before he could prevent it, with the unspoken connection being that Halaster saw the Spellplague on the horizon.
But, given what actually happened, wouldn't Halaster just need to say "Hey, Mystra, don't let Cyric sneak into Dweomerheart," and end the threat?
It led to to believe that, perhaps, there was going to be a deeper, more Realmslore rooted explanation for the Spellplague, which was later scrapped for a "simplified" explanation. Which in turn makes Halaster's death pointless, other than to get rid of yet another established NPC.
Well yeah, I'd heard that Halaster died trying to prevent the Spellplauge too. I was sort of glad to hear thats the reason they cooked up though! Now I can kill two birds with one stone:
He succeeded! Yep, Halaster was good enough at his job to NOT die, and turn off the Spellplauge. Lucky us, 4e never happens!
YAY HALASTER! HALASTER DAY! |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 07:02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I was a little disappointed that it seemed like the foreshadowing that they did in the book didn't get followed through on. Ostensibly, Halaster saw a major catastrophe coming, and was killed before he could prevent it, with the unspoken connection being that Halaster saw the Spellplague on the horizon.
But, given what actually happened, wouldn't Halaster just need to say "Hey, Mystra, don't let Cyric sneak into Dweomerheart," and end the threat?
It led to to believe that, perhaps, there was going to be a deeper, more Realmslore rooted explanation for the Spellplague, which was later scrapped for a "simplified" explanation. Which in turn makes Halaster's death pointless, other than to get rid of yet another established NPC.
Of course, the problem with Hally seeing the Sellplague coming isn't as much why didn't he warn Mystra -- it's how does this isolated mortal see something the gods don't?
I've pretty much decided that EtU is just another book to ignore.  |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 07:15:26
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Uhm...
Cyric was putting on a puppet show to distract her?
In a dress?
While riding a unicycle?
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"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 07:46:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Of course, the problem with Hally seeing the Sellplague coming isn't as much why didn't he warn Mystra -- it's how does this isolated mortal see something the gods don't?
I've actually had some thoughts on that. It doesn't necessarily explain how Halaster's death was tied to the Spellplague, nor his attempts to stop it, but it does lay the groundwork for further expansion later on.
Now, as I see, Halaster's ability to discern the catastrophic event of the Spellplague comes directly from his rather unique "non-Chosen" status. We know that Ed has specifically said, in more then one reply here at Candlekeep, that Halaster was NOT a Chosen of Mystra. We do know he was something, but he wasn't a Chosen. It's my belief that whatever Halaster was, allowed him to see something disastrous occurring in the future with relation to the Weave, Mystra, and the coming Spellplague that the Lady of Mysteries herself could not properly foresee.
As for not warning Mystra, well... that is still something that needs to be properly explained.
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 07:51:14
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Well Sage, we are talking about a madman here. It's possible that he forgot, mistook it for a hallucination, or somehow thought it would be to his advantage to keep it to himself.
I really hate to make anything easier for 4e, but I thought I'd play Levistus' advocate. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 07:54:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
There is a scroll on the Candlekeep website that has customized descriptions of the rooms in Undermountain. I believe they are all in 2e, though, so I don't know how much help that is.
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/roum/roum.htm
Thank you so much ErskineF! Even if I eventually need to re-do the whole darn thing myself for 3.whatever, this stuff will be a big help for inspiration and bad guys. Exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in, thank you again. |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 17:29:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Of course, the problem with Hally seeing the Sellplague coming isn't as much why didn't he warn Mystra -- it's how does this isolated mortal see something the gods don't?
I've actually had some thoughts on that. It doesn't necessarily explain how Halaster's death was tied to the Spellplague, nor his attempts to stop it, but it does lay the groundwork for further expansion later on.
Now, as I see, Halaster's ability to discern the catastrophic event of the Spellplague comes directly from his rather unique "non-Chosen" status. We know that Ed has specifically said, in more then one reply here at Candlekeep, that Halaster was NOT a Chosen of Mystra. We do know he was something, but he wasn't a Chosen. It's my belief that whatever Halaster was, allowed him to see something disastrous occurring in the future with relation to the Weave, Mystra, and the coming Spellplague that the Lady of Mysteries herself could not properly foresee.
As for not warning Mystra, well... that is still something that needs to be properly explained.
Even if Mystra couldn't foresee it herself, there's still Savras and her other non-Chosen servants. And Syluné -- Ed has pretty much said that she was becoming something beyond being "just" a Chosen.
I don't see that Halaster doing something in Undermountain could have prevented the Sellplague, anyway.
No, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think Halaster's death was planned as being connected to anything else -- or if it was, that plans changed radically after the adventure was written.
I'd like to get the input of the writers on that one -- particularly, where the decision to kill Halaster was made. |
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Raith
Seeker
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 18:35:43
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| It sort of reeks of their sudden desire to wipe out big names and deities, doesn't it? |
"Power and dominion are taken by the Will. By divine right Hail and Kill!" |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 18:40:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No, as much as I hate to say it, I don't think Halaster's death was planned as being connected to anything else -- or if it was, that plans changed radically after the adventure was written.
I'd like to get the input of the writers on that one -- particularly, where the decision to kill Halaster was made.
I really do think it was the latter. We got dribs and drabs of what might be leading to the Spellplague and what might be happening in the Realms, and then what "really" happened never followed up on a lot of it.
I get the feeling that there were some designers that were trying to "bridge the gap" a bit more, and others that just wanted a clean break, and the latter school of design won out, even if it had to leave a lot of those "foundation" pieces of lore in 3.5 as kind of strange orphans. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2009 : 18:54:50
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I've yet to hear a single good review of that product. Somewhere someone had done a corrected version of the map (it didn't match the text!), but I didn't bother to download it and have no idea where you could find it now.
For me NOT to have an interest in a Map - ESPECIALLY an FR one - goes to show you just how bad that product was.
The mantra in 4e is 'lore lite', and they were going that way the last two years of 3e (I refer to it as 'Spellplague Creep'). Do yourself a favor and actually FOLLOW the designer's 'plan'; make EVERYTHING up yourself!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've pretty much decided that EtU is just another book to ignore.
Easily done - you'll note it didn't sport the FR logo.
That tome was about some weird 'Undermountain' existing in an alternate prime. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2009 18:55:45 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 00:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Mystra couldn't foresee it herself, there's still Savras and her other non-Chosen servants. And Syluné -- Ed has pretty much said that she was becoming something beyond being "just" a Chosen
Yes, but I've also been thinking that whatever Halaster was, allowed him to stand somewhat outside the Weave and interpret the future disaster of the Spellplague. Perhaps those so tuned to the Weave, like the other Chosen of Mystra and her other specialised servants, were "blinded" because of their deep connection to the Weave. Halaster's unique status granted him the ability to see the coming disaster.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 03:27:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Mystra couldn't foresee it herself, there's still Savras and her other non-Chosen servants. And Syluné -- Ed has pretty much said that she was becoming something beyond being "just" a Chosen
Yes, but I've also been thinking that whatever Halaster was, allowed him to stand somewhat outside the Weave and interpret the future disaster of the Spellplague. Perhaps those so tuned to the Weave, like the other Chosen of Mystra and her other specialised servants, were "blinded" because of their deep connection to the Weave. Halaster's unique status granted him the ability to see the coming disaster.
I dunno... I just don't buy that in all of the Realms, only one person could have foreseen it -- and that he wouldn't make sure the word got back to Mystra. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 04:03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno... I just don't buy that in all of the Realms, only one person could have foreseen it -- and that he wouldn't make sure the word got back to Mystra.
Are we so sure that Mystra did not know what was coming? Maybe it was something she could not avoid (or for some reason, did not want to). I know, I don't believe it either, just hoping that some good, rational reason for all this will pop up at some time. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 06:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno... I just don't buy that in all of the Realms, only one person could have foreseen it -- and that he wouldn't make sure the word got back to Mystra.
Do we really know that it was only one person though? Granted, we have the details on Halaster and his attempt to prevent the Spellplague. And we know, essentially, that Mystra probably didn't see it coming. But we really haven't been told all that much about the event itself, nor the exact nature of its coming and the resultant fallout.
I'm content to believe, for the moment, that what we do know about the Spellplague, is almost inconsequential when compared to what we don't know.
And we really shouldn't dismiss the likelihood either, that after nearly 100 years, some previously-discerned facts about the period just before and during the Spellplague, have either been lost or forgotten by the time of the 4e Realms of 1479 DR. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 07:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno... I just don't buy that in all of the Realms, only one person could have foreseen it -- and that he wouldn't make sure the word got back to Mystra.
Do we really know that it was only one person though? Granted, we have the details on Halaster and his attempt to prevent the Spellplague. And we know, essentially, that Mystra probably didn't see it coming. But we really haven't been told all that much about the event itself, nor the exact nature of its coming and the resultant fallout.
I'm content to believe, for the moment, that what we do know about the Spellplague, is almost inconsequential when compared to what we don't know.
And we really shouldn't dismiss the likelihood either, that after nearly 100 years, some previously-discerned facts about the period just before and during the Spellplague, have either been lost or forgotten by the time of the 4e Realms of 1479 DR.
Well, there are no other references to anyone foreseeing this coming doom. And no one told Mystra about it. Therefore, it's logical to assume that somehow, only Halaster saw it coming.
What we don't know about the Sellplague is all the important info about it. What little we do know doesn't make any sense at all, and it's most likely that we will never know any more about it.
Besides, I have to point out on other thing: the vague description given in EtU of what Halaster foresaw doesn't sound a thing like the Sellplague. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 09:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, there are no other references to anyone foreseeing this coming doom. And no one told Mystra about it. Therefore, it's logical to assume that somehow, only Halaster saw it coming.
No, I don't think so. As I said above, we don't know every single detail about the coming of the Spellplague, nor the event itself.
Not that we need to, I know, since there are plenty of other events in the Realms that haven't received much attention beyond an initial mention and follow-up reference here and there. But since the Spellplague is sort of the defining moment between the end of 3e and the beginning of what would become the 4e Realms, there's every reason to believe that something more about the pre-Spellplague period could be revealed as work on the Realmslore continues.
And we have to remember too, that the EtU details about Halaster's demise and the Spellplague may have been the initial perspectives the designers had for the event. We know from previous production histories concerning significant Realms plot-lines that they sometimes change and/or evolve beyond what was initially printed about them. So, perhaps, the Spellplague is another example of this.
After all, it could help to explain, somewhat, what you describe below:-
quote:
What we don't know about the Sellplague is all the important info about it. What little we do know doesn't make any sense at all, and it's most likely that we will never know any more about it.
Besides, I have to point out on other thing: the vague description given in EtU of what Halaster foresaw doesn't sound a thing like the Sellplague.
This could simply be an example of what I said above. About the Spellplague reference in EtU being an early rendering of the whole concept, that slowly changed after the writing and release of the tome.
And, again, we still don't have all the facts. So I think it's still a little too early to say that we have any kind of logical platform that's stable enough to allow us to assume we know all their is to know about the Spellplague.
Of course, this is assuming we will learn more as the novels -- which feature the post-Spellplague Realms -- progress.
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 09:33:59
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My guess is that Halaster's demise will be overlooked in terms of exploiting it in a novel or some such, look at what happened with the return of Bane...it just happened, voila.
Well Halaster ain't dead for me, and neither is Mystra, and the more I think of it, the more satisfied I get regarding my decision to fill my library up with Realms stuff and use that... no 4e(vil) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2009 : 09:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Raith
He succeeded! Yep, Halaster was good enough at his job to NOT die, and turn off the Spellplauge. Lucky us, 4e never happens!
YAY HALASTER! HALASTER DAY!
 Well played, Raith!
Myself, I've told the one player in my group who actually likes the 4e realms that the Spellplague didn't happen in my Realms because Larloch caught wind of it and sorted Cyric out. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 06:11:43
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Remember Elminster in hell?
Halaster: "I am Shar's creature..."
perhaps he was "in on it", being one of her more powerful servants, and when Mystra cleansed his mind (you just gotta love why she did it), he came to his senses.
Maybe not at that exact moment, but after getting his sanity back, he probably started pieces all the fragmented 'crazy bits' back together, and after a few months had the whole picture, and then started to work on a means of preventing it.
From all appearances, the Dark Roll of Years was Shar's 'alternate timeline' - there was a point in history where prophesy can diverge down two paths, and it looks as though Cyric ascending was that point, and all-important to her long-range plans. If Halaster was aware of the juncture, he may not have been allowed to tell anyone (Shar could have had him under a geas or some-such while he was still 'hers') about it, so he tried to stop it on his own.
At least, thats the way I'm seeing that whole scenario play-out.
As for Savras, I think he was finaly able to "pierce the veil" (he was having trouble seeing certain 'events', as per his 3e write-up), but it was too late. Thats how he wound-up getting killed, I'm thinking. I see him arriving at the last possible moment, and taking 'a bullet' (or more like a Shadowbolt from Shar) for Mystra, getting himself killed in the process.
But Shar managed to foresee Savras' timely arrival, and thats why she had Cyric for a 'back-up'. While Mystra stood their stunned by Savras' destruction, he slipped a dagger (or perhaps the Karstone Shar gave him) into Mystra's ribs from behind.
So the whole thing was Shar's plan since the fall of Netheril (which she also helped along according to canon), and the only way to thwart Savras' saving of Mystra was to have a second god that didn't yet exist ready to kill her. She probably instigated the 'Dark Three' to steal the Tablets and get the ball rolling on that as well.
That Shar... she's responsible for everything, ya' know. I wouldn't be surprised if the Drow and the Sundering were blamed on her next. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2009 06:15:09 |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 06:24:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So the whole thing was Shar's plan since the fall of Netheril (which she also helped along according to canon), and the only way to thwart Savras' saving of Mystra was to have a second god that didn't yet exist ready to kill her. She probably instigated the 'Dark Three' to steal the Tablets and get the ball rolling on that as well.
XD I like to think that all of the tablets being stolen was Ao being an idiot.
"Okay guys. Now, I know there's a god of thieves and a god of Tyranny and all, but I've got THESE TABLETS RIGHT HERE. DON'T STEAL THEM OR ANYTHING OR ELSE YOU'LL MAYBE BE ABLE TO RULE THE WORLD! I'M SERIOUS."
Then Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul burst out into a giggle-fit simultaneously, and after they'd stolen the tablets Ao got so moody over letting the gods be SO SUPER-GOOD at their jobs he threw a hissy-fit, poked the eyes out of one of his most loyal servants and booted them out the threshold.
That's what makes me grin anyway, ending rant! ^_^ |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 16:28:20
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How do you know it was Ao who lead them to believe the Tablets had any power what-so-ever? They were a set of rules - nothing more - and as far as canon goes, there is no mention of him EVER alluding to them being anything more, until after they were stolen.
Somehow they got the idea that the tablets were more then just a set of rules... and I think that 'somehow' was Shar.
This my take now, in hindsight, and and seeing the direction the designers went-in with those three 'super-modules' at the end of 3e. Those and the Roll of Years points to a VERY long-range plan of Shar's, that relied on prophesy and manipulating future events in such away as to change the outcome.
She needed to create a new God Alaundo never foresaw, and one that she could easily manipulate, and at the same time replace Mystra with a less-experienced version (who would not know Shar well-enough to expect all her contingencies). In fact, if she was behind BOTH the Fall of Netheril and the ToT, that means she would have replaced Mystra TWICE (that we know of). The first time may have just been a 'test run', and from that she learned the only time she would be able to catch Mystra "with her pants down" would be when she was still a 'young' deity and in-experienced herself.
Perhaps not the way I would have went with things, but given the trend to put Shar behind everything these days, this is just how I'm seeing it right now. Another team gets put in charge, and they put their own spin on things, and I'm sure I'd change my thoughts on things yet again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2009 17:57:31 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 16:41:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
How do you know it was Ao who lead them to believe the Tablets had any power what-so-ever? They were a set of rules - nothing more - and as far as canon goes, there is no mention of him EVER alluding to them being anything more, until after they were stolen.
Somehow they got the idea that the tablets were more then just a set of rules... and I think that 'somehow' was Shar.
This my take now, in hindsight and and seeing the direction the designers went-in with those three 'super-modules' at the end of 3e. Those and the Roll of Years points to a VERY long-range plan of Shar's, that relied on prophesy and manipulating future events in such away as to change the outcome.
She needed to create a new God Alaundo never foresaw, and one that she could easily manipulate, and at the same time replace Mystra with a less-experienced version (who would not know Shar well-enough to expect all her contingencies). In fact, if she was behind BOTH the Fall of Netheril and the ToT, that means she would have replaced Mystra TWICE (that we know of). The first time may have just been a 'test run', and from that she learned the only time she would be able to catch Mystra "with her pants down" would be when she was still a 'young' deity and in-experienced herself.
Perhaps not the way I would have went with things, but given the trend to put Shar behind everything these days, this is just how I'm seeing it right now. Another team gets put in charge, and they put their own spin on things, and I'm sure I'd change my thoughts on things yet again.
You're coming up with this colored with what they have done for 4e. It has been many years since the ToT, and I don't think the designers have planned on Shar playing that kind of part in the Realms for that long. She has always been an important deity, and I could see her being responsible for one or two major disasters, but she hasn't always been the ultimate baddie for the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 16:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
You're coming up with this colored with what they have done for 4e. It has been many years since the ToT, and I don't think the designers have planned on Shar playing that kind of part in the Realms for that long. She has always been an important deity, and I could see her being responsible for one or two major disasters, but she hasn't always been the ultimate baddie for the Realms.
I have to agree. Until 3E, Shar was just another deity... All she did was kill Ibrandul (in what was essentially a footnote), and impersonate Selūne -- which was in a comic book. I'm not saying I have any problem with either plot or where it appeared, but it's hard to believe that there was any plans for doing anything with Shar at that point. If there had been plans, she would have had a more noteworthy appearance.
Until 3E and the whole "shadow is t3h kewl!" attitude, Shar was very much a background deity. She had next to no screentime, and there was no indication that she was anything more than just another evil deity. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 18:00:00
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Let's not forget that among some other good bits, Expedition does have the best published overviews of the deeper levels.
Faerūnian gods aren't supposed to 'do things'. I like Shar, and she was a far more credible power before she was abused as this genre-breakingly world-spanning yet blatantly petty contrivance. |
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Expedition to Underwhelming
