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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 18:45:58
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Is there a list of templates? Who they apply to, and the creature type produced.
I was reading an article on the WotC website about stacking templates to be able to apply templates that are not normally allowed.
Here is a question is there a way to apply the half-golem template to a dragon, without breaking the rules?
I was wondering if using the half-troll template that results in the giant type would work. Normally templates cannot be applied to creature types of a higher order, as on the heirarchy of templates in the savage species.
So is this template an exception to the rule that you can't go down the template heirarchy? Or would a dragon with the half-troll template still be a dragon type? If so my original question remains.
How can it be done?
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Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:47:33
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List of Templates
Type Pyramid (as described in Savage Species, pgs 142-143)
Top
Construct, Outsider, Undead
Elemental, Ooze, Plant
Aberration
Dragon, Humanoid (shapechanger)
Fey, Giant
Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid
Animal, Humanoid, Plant
Bottom
If a template has a higher type than the creature, the creature assumes the template's type.
If a creature has a higher type than the template, the creature retains its own type
Also, when using multiple templates, halves become quarters, quarters become eighths, et cetera. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:52:31
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What I was really looking for was a list that went:
Template Name, Can be Applied to X, Resultant Creature Type is Y.
Cheers  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 20:07:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
What I was really looking for was a list that went:
Template Name, Can be Applied to X, Resultant Creature Type is Y.
Cheers
If there is one of those, it is custom made, and I don't know where to find it at this moment. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 20:39:23
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| The only source of such information is the templates themselves, telling you what types the template can be applied to. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 09:37:12
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I suppose I could create my own list 
Well can anyone help me with my Dragon-Golem problem?   |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 16:21:03
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| I don't see why you shouldn't be able to apply the half-golem template to a dragon. The creature does not change type unless it fails its will save. And even if it did fail its save, construct is on a higher tier in the pyramid then dragon, so there should be no problem. Would you mind linking the article on templates that you were talking about in the OP? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 19:22:18
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Also, remember: When in doubt, rule 0.
If you're the DM and you WANT to put a template on a creature that makes sense for what you have in mind but the rules seem stacked against you, just declare it an exception to the rules.
Having read the template description, the creature types pyramid mentioned above by HawkinstheDM doesn't necessarily apply as the half-golem template specifically states that it can be applied to any animal, giant, humanoid, magical beast, or monstrous humanoid. As the DM in my game, I would create an exception to the rule and allow it to apply to one dragon... and attempts by anyone to recreate this exception for other dragons would need to go to extraordinary lengths to research and duplicate the process of creating an artificial limb for a dragon or any other creature not covered by the template.
Even if you want to abide by the rules for the template as stated, there's no rule against creating a new template specifically for your purposes. Consider it a unique variant of the original template intended for dragons only (or outsiders only, or undead only, or what have you). You're just modelling the new template on the old. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:34:19
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Well the problem is that the Half-Golem template can only be applied to humanoid shaped creatures. Described as two arms, two legs and one head. So a Dragon would not be eligible. 
But ignoring 'Rule 0'
Can anyone design a template stacking path that allows the Half-Golem to eventually be applied to the base Dragon?  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:01:16
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| Wondering if you could apply the template while the dragon is polymorphed. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:03:18
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| Create a new, almost identical template specifically for dragons. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:07:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
Wondering if you could apply the template while the dragon is polymorphed.
Well I think that is cheating
But if a Dragon polymorphed into a humanoid, got two iron golem arms and then reverted to Dragon form what would happen to the arms? Would they also polymorph to a new form? They technically have not been effected by any magic, so when the spell ends and the dragon reverts to its natural state would not the iron golem arms remain in their natural state? 
Possibly creating a comical t-rex style dragon but with tiny iron arms. 
Anyway there must be a way of doing this without polymorph, wild shape, etc.  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:08:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
Create a new, almost identical template specifically for dragons.
Come on that's just 'Rule 0' in a different hat. |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
Edited by - Wrigs13 on 19 Feb 2009 22:10:16 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:16:37
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| Wrigs, one of the main things you need to keep in mind is that many of the restrictions in 3.x are placed there for flavor and not because it would imbalance the mechanics. Most (if not all) of the golems found in the MM are humanoid-shaped, and I think that that is why that is a restriction for the Half-Golem template. But it is perfectly plausible that a dragon might desire to add an extra golem limb (or replace a lost one). Well, as plausible as any other cognizant creature that is. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:21:14
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Wrigs, one of the main things you need to keep in mind is that many of the restrictions in 3.x are placed there for flavor and not because it would imbalance the mechanics. Most (if not all) of the golems found in the MM are humanoid-shaped, and I think that that is why that is a restriction for the Half-Golem template. But it is perfectly plausible that a dragon might desire to add an extra golem limb (or replace a lost one). Well, as plausible as any other cognizant creature that is.
OK that being said, I accept that I can apply the template to a Dragon if I so wish. What I am now proposing is simply a mental exercise, a challege for its own sake, and a puzzle for fun.
Can anyone using the rules as written, legally apply the half-golem template to a dragon by stacking various templates to get the desired result.
Just for fun. |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Templates and Stacking
