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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 15:33:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
What level do you pitch your point buy system at? I always have the problem that no one wants to be average so buying 14's just doen't happen. One player will, no matter how many or few the points available, will buy the highest strength possible and ignore all the mental stats, hence becoming a total retard. Then they start moaning that just because they have bought Str 18 they can't afford decent Dex and Con. Without using Epic stat points how do you avoid complaints?
You should make them roll stats; that way, they won't dump 'unimportant' stats to make drooling fighters that hit like a train. :o |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 05:15:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
What level do you pitch your point buy system at? I always have the problem that no one wants to be average so buying 14's just doen't happen. One player will, no matter how many or few the points available, will buy the highest strength possible and ignore all the mental stats, hence becoming a total retard. Then they start moaning that just because they have bought Str 18 they can't afford decent Dex and Con. Without using Epic stat points how do you avoid complaints?
I don't. I just make it so that everyone feels equally put out. 
Seriously, the folks in my regular group don't have a problem with point buy. When I DM'd we used 32 pts, but our regular DM lowered that to 30. In our current campaign, he allowed people to roll stats, but he adjusted them so that everyone still ended up on a fairly level playing field.
I've had two players who had a problem with point-buy. They were the two whingers I mentioned in a previous thread. They didn't like our other DM, so they left the group. They talked me into running a game for them on the side. Both of them were used to second edition, and they just couldn't wrap their brains around the idea that in 3e a 16 is a damned good ability score. As far as they were concerned, a character without at least one 18 and two other scores in the 16-18 range was considered unplayable.
That campaign lasted maybe two months. I was running Sunless Citadel for them, and I became bored with watching them wade through my puny little goblins with their god-like characters. Published adventures assume that characters are in the 25-28 pt range, and they were nearly twice that. It wasn't worth the trouble to boost all the creature stats just to make it more challenging.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 07:13:14
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-I always use the Elite Array when I DM.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 16:47:41
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I'm not at all familiar with the exalted rules, nor this particular feat, however, I'd stll like to chime in as best I can...quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
I think that it is against the spirit of the game to blatantly buy magical supplies and then let someone else take responsibility for them. 
However if 4 pc's find 100,000 gp of treasure then thats 25,000 each. If the ascetic gives his 25,000 to charity then he is upholding his vow.
This is what you are supposed to be doing. As a long-time DM, I would make sure the character was following the spirit of the vow, and not just the letter of it.
You could divide the treasure up and the other three players each get a third, and then agree that they should buy and give you whatever you need when you need it, but thats a clear violation of intent, as far as I'm concerned. The ascetic character NEEDS to take his share, and then donate it ASAP.
A Feat this good needs to be monitored at all times. If the Ascetic takes his 'windfall' and builds a temple dedicated to his beliefs, then a DM must look at the real reasons behind it. Doing this is following the vow, but he/she could have alterior motives. In the case of those Franciscans - the Monk could own whatever he wanted, and just say it's 'property of the church', and "I'm just authorized to use their property for the greater good".
The PC could be setting up the temple as a 'dump-site' for his fat lewts, claim it all belongs to the temple, and then go there whenever he needs to 'borrow' temple property.
However, if the DM specifically gives him a holy item dedicated to his beliefs, then that should break the 'no magic items' rule - the 'Rule Zero' rule applies, and the item was obviously granted him for use in service to the church (and the DM can VERY EASILY take it back at any time - usually after it has served some purpose).
As for the 'mace but no sword' thing, that may be a hold-over from when clerics could only use items that didn't shed blood (non bladed or piercing, which is a Catholic thing and really never belonged in a fantasy game). I could also be WAY OFF base with that one, not being familiar with any of these particular rules. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Feb 2009 16:51:22 |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2009 : 17:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You could divide the treasure up and the other three players each get a third, and then agree that they should buy and give you whatever you need when you need it, but thats a clear violation of intent, as far as I'm concerned. The ascetic character NEEDS to take his share, and then donate it ASAP.
I don't know how the rule is worded, but a vow of poverty and a vow of charity suggest two different things to me. The Franciscan ideal was that the monk only accepted what was necessary to feed him for the moment. He didn't walk around with money to hand out; on the contrary he was himself a beggar. That's why they called it a mendicant order.
So I would say that the ascetic has no share in the treasure for any purpose, even charity or the building of temples. I think it's perfectly reasonable, though, for him to accept charity from the group. What he can't do is say, "You guys need to buy me potions x, y and z, and carry them for me so that I'll have them when needed;" and any notion that he's entitled to material help from the group should be squashed.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 15:38:18
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Much of Ascetic roleplay is to do with morals and moral choices. The central tenet that the ends do not justify the means leads to many questions.
Consider this scenario:
An ascetic character finds a portal to hell just as a pit fiend comes through. The pit fiend is disorientated and explains that it is on a mission to recover a captain of the legions of the damned who has fled to faerun and started building an empire of undead. The pit fiend has one goal, capture and return his captain before other fiends find out about it and attack him for his perceived weakness. The captain is causing chaos, slaughtering the innocent and raising their bodies to fill the ranks of his army.
In this scenario can an ascetic character team up with a pit fiend to track down and stop the inferal captain? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 16:57:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Much of Ascetic roleplay is to do with morals and moral choices. The central tenet that the ends do not justify the means leads to many questions.
Consider this scenario:
An ascetic character finds a portal to hell just as a pit fiend comes through. The pit fiend is disorientated and explains that it is on a mission to recover a captain of the legions of the damned who has fled to faerun and started building an empire of undead. The pit fiend has one goal, capture and return his captain before other fiends find out about it and attack him for his perceived weakness. The captain is causing chaos, slaughtering the innocent and raising their bodies to fill the ranks of his army.
In this scenario can an ascetic character team up with a pit fiend to track down and stop the inferal captain?
In that scenario, the ascetic can only team up if they can prevent the pit fiend from committing atrocities while they are teamed up. It is a slippery slope in another way because, the ascetic would want to destroy the pit fiend, but once they have teamed up, it would be highly immoral to betray the pit fiend. Probably the best case scenario for the ascetic is to send the pit fiend back to hell, and find the captain on his own. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 17:12:25
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Well, I dunno. My mama always taught me never to talk to pit fiends.
I'll never forget, one time she asked me, "Son, how do you tell if a pit fiend is lying?" I said, "I dunno, Ma, how do you tell if a pit fiend is lying?" And she said, "WHO CARES IF IT'S LYING, YOU IDIOT! KILL IT!!!"
So yeah, I'm just amazed that the pit fiend was able to explain all that while the ascetic was trying to send it back to Hell in a body bag.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 17:55:01
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
Well, I dunno. My mama always taught me never to talk to pit fiends.
I'll never forget, one time she asked me, "Son, how do you tell if a pit fiend is lying?" I said, "I dunno, Ma, how do you tell if a pit fiend is lying?" And she said, "WHO CARES IF IT'S LYING, YOU IDIOT! KILL IT!!!"
So yeah, I'm just amazed that the pit fiend was able to explain all that while the ascetic was trying to send it back to Hell in a body bag.
Well, I guess that's better advice than when my dad told me, on my wedding night, not to kill anything if I went back in time...
Points to whoever gets that reference. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2009 : 23:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That would be Abraham Simpson -- "Treehouse of Horror V." 
Okay, so what am I going to have to delve into to stump you? Manga, perhaps? |
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Ascetics, Exalted & Vow of Poverty
