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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 15:46:21
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I just have to ask!
Has anyone ACTUALLY played a Cleric of Eldath? if so, what were they like? Every time I pass her entry in Faiths and Pantheons and say "Wow, it would be kind of interesting to play someone who worshiped her!". It seems people seeking peace and nature go to Silvanus, Chauntea, Mielikki, Lurue, any number of gods that embody that.
Just curious; I always thought it would be fun to make a cleric who worshipped her because she thought waterfalls were the prettiest things ever. I'd like to insert a druid of her into my campaign as an NPC, methinks.
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"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 15:50:13
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I've never played one, but it would be interesting to combine some of the vows of peace and such from the Book of Exalted Deeds with a cleric of Eldath. I might have to try that sometime!  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 16:38:12
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I tried once for a 3e game using some of the Exalted material.... my gaming group voted that I had to make a new character since a pacifist made no sense as an adventurer.
So, I was a little annoyed over those events.
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I've never played one, but it would be interesting to combine some of the vows of peace and such from the Book of Exalted Deeds with a cleric of Eldath. I might have to try that sometime!
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 18:21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I tried once for a 3e game using some of the Exalted material.... my gaming group voted that I had to make a new character since a pacifist made no sense as an adventurer.
So, I was a little annoyed over those events.
That IS a pity. I know right now in a homebrew campaign I've got a level 9 cleric/apostle of peace/monk of the setting's goddess of peace, Neforia. She's got vow of peace, poverty, nonviolence, the works. She's got an AC of 38 with no armor on, but she's kind of a stick in the mud.
:( I feel bad they made you get a new character! |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:17:52
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Yea, it bummed me out at the time. :( Ah well. Lesson learned, some groups don't enjoy pacifist characters....
quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I tried once for a 3e game using some of the Exalted material.... my gaming group voted that I had to make a new character since a pacifist made no sense as an adventurer.
So, I was a little annoyed over those events.
That IS a pity. I know right now in a homebrew campaign I've got a level 9 cleric/apostle of peace/monk of the setting's goddess of peace, Neforia. She's got vow of peace, poverty, nonviolence, the works. She's got an AC of 38 with no armor on, but she's kind of a stick in the mud.
:( I feel bad they made you get a new character!
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Feb 2009 19:18:33 |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 20:11:52
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The thing about pacifists according to the Book of Exalted Deeds that really brings down gaming is that the pacifist not only can't fight (anything but undead), its that they have to also get in the way of their allies' attempts to do violence. Unless the whole party is down with the nonviolence thing, they have to choose to either get rid of the pacisifist or embrace the pacifist's methods. There's just no real middle ground.
I tried this with a faithful of Sune. The rest of the party HATED her. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 20:21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
The thing about pacifists according to the Book of Exalted Deeds that really brings down gaming is that the pacifist not only can't fight (anything but undead), its that they have to also get in the way of their allies' attempts to do violence. Unless the whole party is down with the nonviolence thing, they have to choose to either get rid of the pacisifist or embrace the pacifist's methods. There's just no real middle ground.
Aha, they can't cause any HARM. In game terms, this means real damage. Subdual damage they can do. If you are willing to take a -4 on attacks, or get the subdual metamagic exalted feat, you can still be VERY useful. :D |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 20:25:34
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That's the fun part of being a DM, you can introduce characters like that as npc's.
I have a feeling that I used one in a game years ago (or maybe a player used a speciality priest in a couple of adventures), but for the life of me I cant remember the details of the game. Or maybe it was a mystic? Anyway, the character was the the diplomat between the characters and a tribe of sprites allied to a river spirit. As avoiding combat was the point the pacifist part was not a problem. |
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 20:55:28
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| I played once a cleric of death, the one in the complete priest handbook from 2ed. that was fun trying role play. Rabiesbunny i think you should try definitely, it sounds like good fun and great to role play a druid of Eldath. plus it is awesome name. |
Purple you say?!
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 21:14:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
Aha, they can't cause any HARM. In game terms, this means real damage. Subdual damage they can do. If you are willing to take a -4 on attacks, or get the subdual metamagic exalted feat, you can still be VERY useful. :D
I'm trying to picture Ghandi punching someone out. 
It may be within the rules, but it doesn't sound like pacifism to me.
How do you deal with the party members who are doing real damage?
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 21:25:38
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| stand in their way |
Purple you say?!
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 21:30:10
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
I'm trying to picture Ghandi punching someone out.
It may be within the rules, but it doesn't sound like pacifism to me.
How do you deal with the party members who are doing real damage?
 What a thought!
Well, the way I justified it in roleplay terms is...
...gosh, here goes another story. My character was on a ship attacked by pirates. The crew managed to take one of their ships down and nearly destroy the other. It landed downriver from us, and the sailors on our ship planned an attack with the other PCs. My character just did her goodly thing, trying to heal after failing to talk her Captain out of this.
So when they captured the other ship's remaining crew after a bloody battle, the Captain announced their execution the next morning. This definitely didn't fit in with my little Lawful Goodie's world view, because to her they should be brought back to civiliation and tried for their crimes. Noone would listen to her, and she became violent in her opposition and hit the Fist of Raziel on our party who carried her off.
So I had her realize that sometimes there is no way to avoid physical conflict, and she began training in a monkish way. Since she had all heal spells she couldn't stop them from killing the men, and I had that weigh on her shoulders to the point that she was willing to also train in hand-to-hand combat in case she needs to defend innocents or her beliefs, and doesn't have any other method to effectively do so. I'm sure some munchkin could totally exploit it though. :( |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Portella
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
247 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 22:09:40
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| seems like a good turn of hearts, i would take a one or two levels in monk class. start using hold person, charm and other spells like it. |
Purple you say?!
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 23:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
Just curious; I always thought it would be fun to make a cleric who worshipped her because she thought waterfalls were the prettiest things ever. I'd like to insert a druid of her into my campaign as an NPC, methinks.
I like it--she can protect wetlands. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 23:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
So I had her realize that sometimes there is no way to avoid physical conflict, and she began training in a monkish way. Since she had all heal spells she couldn't stop them from killing the men, and I had that weigh on her shoulders to the point that she was willing to also train in hand-to-hand combat in case she needs to defend innocents or her beliefs, and doesn't have any other method to effectively do so. I'm sure some munchkin could totally exploit it though. :(
Nice backstory, and good justification.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 04:33:27
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| My sunite pacifist was a paladin/favored soul and definitely carried a weapon... she was all about destroying the undead. But when it came to living creatures, she talked first and used her weapon defensively and to disarm (improved disarm feat) and then talked again. She was quite the diplomat, which is why the party hated her... they wanted to kill everything that challeged them because anything that's a threat once will likely (in their opinion) hunt you down and kill you in your sleep if it escapes/is allowed to go free. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 04:47:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
they wanted to kill everything that challeged them because anything that's a threat once will likely (in their opinion) hunt you down and kill you in your sleep if it escapes/is allowed to go free.
Isn't that how it works? Have you ever known a DM who didn't bring back an escaped bad guy to plague the party? Just once I'd like to see the bad guy come back and thank us for turning him away from a life of evil.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 09:45:37
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| A cleric or druid of Eldath could make sense as an adventurer. You're not suppossed to kill anything needlessly, but you still can! Presumably Eldath isn't oppossed to her followers killing say demons... But it will still be hard. When I think of Eldathian theology I sort of think of Jainism in the real world or something where they don't even kill insects! |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 10:36:51
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I´m alway tempted to play a priest of Eldath/Apostol of Peace, since I read the Book of Exalted Deeds.
It´s a pity that, until now, I don´t have find the oportunity, but I think that this will be a very interesting character. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 12:43:55
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In the days of 3e, I occasionally participated with a party who had a pacifist priestess of Lliira. She would cast protective spells and healing magic’s before, during, and after combat all the while preaching to everyone. My cleric of Tempus thought she was a hoot. He spent one long night giving a lecture to some young adventurers who made the mistake of heckling her at the local tavern.
Ahhh, fond memories.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Darkhund
Acolyte
34 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 17:10:15
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| I had a Thayvian monk once, that dual-worshipped Jergal and Eldath, creating his own order, The Path of the Peaceful Death. Its an interesting line to play. He would parry and heal, and that was pretty much it in combat. Excepting against unlicensed Undead (per Jergal's church). Then he'd gladly make their skulls asplode with his palms. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 17:58:20
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Wasn't she replaced by Perrier in 4e? 
Seriously, I have used in her in Homebrew Realmslore several times (she is one of my favorites), and also in story-arcs (mostly as 'backdrop'), but never had an adventure based around her and her church, or run a PC or even an NPC that followed her. 
She's definately one of the Faerûn's more 'flavorful' deities, but she's really not one of the 'movers and shakers' in the Realms. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2009 18:01:12 |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 18:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
they wanted to kill everything that challeged them because anything that's a threat once will likely (in their opinion) hunt you down and kill you in your sleep if it escapes/is allowed to go free.
Isn't that how it works? Have you ever known a DM who didn't bring back an escaped bad guy to plague the party? Just once I'd like to see the bad guy come back and thank us for turning him away from a life of evil.
Of course, that's how it works... things might get boring if the escaping bad guys just went on the way every single time. But it might be nice, as you say, the bad guys occasionally come back to thank the heroes for setting them straight or even just get the hell out of the area just in case the heroes decide to come looking for them.
But when the entire party wants to kill everything and everyone extremely dead just to be sure and they border on turning against the pacifist, its probably time for the pacifist to part company.
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Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:27:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
But when the entire party wants to kill everything and everyone extremely dead just to be sure and they border on turning against the pacifist, its probably time for the pacifist to part company.
No doubt.
I'm just saying that there's probably a reason why the group is that paranoid. The DM creates the reality of the game world. He determines whether mercy and pacifism are practical or not, and whether the example set by characters with those qualities can have a positive moral impact on the world. If mercy and pacifism are always rewarded with betrayal, the players won't be suckers for very long. I think if someone is going to play a character like that, they would need to talk to the DM first and see what his take on it is going to be. If he's smacking his lips over being able to put the PCs into impossible moral dilemmas, then it's best to stay away from it.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:06:11
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Actually, knowing my group, the paranoia comes from previous DMs.  |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 23:28:23
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Well, you could always go for a Shepard Book type 'pacifist'. He's always helpful out of combat, with both advice and skills, but is willing to pick up a weapon and fight (though not kill) when his friends lives are in danger.
Absolute pacifism probably wouldn't work in D&D, but a character who is very hesitant to use force, but does when other options are exhausted, could very well work. It'd lead to some interesting RP too. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 00:06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Well, you could always go for a Shepard Book type 'pacifist'. He's always helpful out of combat, with both advice and skills, but is willing to pick up a weapon and fight (though not kill) when his friends lives are in danger.
Awesome reference! 
Zoë: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killin'?"
Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."
Shepherd was a great character, and he'd be a great basis for playing an adventuring pacifist. That was an excellent suggestion!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 00:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Well, you could always go for a Shepard Book type 'pacifist'. He's always helpful out of combat, with both advice and skills, but is willing to pick up a weapon and fight (though not kill) when his friends lives are in danger.
Awesome reference!
Zoë: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killin'?"
Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."
Shepherd was a great character, and he'd be a great basis for playing an adventuring pacifist. That was an excellent suggestion!
I'll agree with that. And I'll note further that the Serenity RPG has some rather useful tidbits on both Shepherd and his role that could be easily adapted for an fantasy-based adventuring pacifist type.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 02:53:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Awesome reference!
Zoë: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killin'?"
Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."
Shepherd was a great character, and he'd be a great basis for playing an adventuring pacifist. That was an excellent suggestion!
Gawd, I love that show. How the hell they could've cancelled it I'll never understand. 
Preacher's a great character and all, but if I had to choose between him and Mal for my party, I'd chose Zoë.
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 04:42:52
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Eh. If I had to choose a Firefly cast member I'd want in my "personal party," it'd be Kaylee.
...
*Hopes the Lady K isn't reading this*
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Feb 2009 04:44:30 |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 06:05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Eh. If I had to choose a Firefly cast member I'd want in my "personal party," it'd be Kaylee.
S'funny, but if I could pick only one, it wouldn't be any of the babefest that make up the female side of the crew... though River is tempting for being cute and a butt-kicker. No, I'd want Jayne along to smooth things over when the going gets rough. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Eldath - goddess of sparkly water!
