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Zakiel
Acolyte
18 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 02:32:51
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Edited by - Zakiel on 07 Jan 2012 05:58:35
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 17:10:42
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| I have one suggestion if you are going to put this up on the web somewhere: make it possible to sort it alphabetically as well. Not everyone who looks at those timelines is interested in looking at the whole history of Faerun, sometimes people want to look up a specific novel they are reading at the moment. For that matter, allowing both alphabetization and chronologization would make it an improvement over O Love's timeline. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3252 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 18:13:02
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| Sorry, not in the habit of opening strange documents since they could contain viruses. Maybe if you were a) a bit more polite in your posts and b) offered it to Alaundo, Sage and Wooly to take a look at for inclusion at Candlekeep, I'd be more inclined to check it out. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Zakiel
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 18:21:45
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Edited by - Zakiel on 10 Dec 2010 15:07:52 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 18:34:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Zakiel
Furthermore, I don't think you read my post, as I said, It's all sortable too. quote:
You can sort by author, date, year, series, and a lot of other stuff.
So, yes, you can sort. You can filter as well, if you say, only want to look at the novels.
I did read your post, but I don't feel comfortable downloading documents unless I absolutely know where they are from. I don't trust BitTorrent sites and the like. I was simply confused when you posted the listing, and I was making a suggestion. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 19:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Zakiel
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Sorry, not in the habit of opening strange documents since they could contain viruses. Maybe if you were a) a bit more polite in your posts and b) offered it to Alaundo, Sage and Wooly to take a look at for inclusion at Candlekeep, I'd be more inclined to check it out.
Okay,
.......... Please use protection............    
Sound advise for sure! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 16 Feb 2009 19:02:47 |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 20:36:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Sorry, not in the habit of opening strange documents since they could contain viruses. Maybe if you were a) a bit more polite in your posts and b) offered it to Alaundo, Sage and Wooly to take a look at for inclusion at Candlekeep, I'd be more inclined to check it out.
Here's my attempt to try to head off an argument before it starts. I certainly can't speak for Zakiel, but I personally don't think there was anything blatantly impolite about his posts. There are some things that can be taken as impolite however, which is always a problem with forums, emails, etc. There's no "tone," so intent is left to the reader to interpret. In my field and position I get emails all the time that are blunt, concise, and at first glance, rude. My first thought is usually "well, you can just go shove a (use your imagination) up your (imagination works well here too)." Then upon further consideration I realize that maybe the message was probably blunt and to the point because mixing in a few flowery words doesn't really change the point. It's apparent that Zakiel has spent quite a bit of time on this project. Being incredibly anal about chronology I can appreciate that. While O-Love's timeline and web site are fantastic, they don't answer all of my questions, and I myself would be somewhat frustrated if I spent a lot of time on a project and people criticized and made suggestions without ever looking at it. While those criticisms and suggestions weren't malicious or invalid, I can understand the frustration. I'm willing to give Zakiel the benefit of the doubt on this one.
My advice to Zakiel is don't be so quick to post. Review it and make sure you're not accidently going to send the wrong message. There are a lot of great people on this forum and words can sting even if you don't mean them too.
By the way...downloaded the files and tested with two virus-scans. They're safe. |
Edited by - mnb128 on 16 Feb 2009 20:37:02 |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 21:43:00
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For the sake of complete accuracy here are a couple of edits.
Swordplay - -699 to -697 (Given clear time clues throughout the series these are the correct dates)
Dangerous Games - -697 to -339 (Same as above)
Mortal Consequences - -696 to -693 (Same as above)
First Flight - (This short story makes no sense considering that some characters are no longer in the land of the living according to WOTC dating of the story and Karsus is mentioned as a great archwizard although at the time of the story he could only have been 2. That being said, outside of the Karsus comment made in the story "First Flight" could only take place during the Arcane Age trilogy.
Too Long in the Dark - -339 - -337 (Mentions that two years have elapsed during story)
When Even Sky Cities Fall (Realms of the Arcane) - -339 (Although WOTC doesn't give it an official date, it takes place at the fall of Netheril)
I have others but don't have time at the moment to get them together. Hope this helps. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 23:12:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Zakiel
Okay,
1. I'm sorry that you think everything has viruses. Even if stuff did, which it doesn't, as long as you have a good anti-virus program it would detect it, notify you, and then delete/quarantine it. Please use protection. Either way, that's why I posted pictures in this thread.
I think Ashe is just voicing some concern over the notion that you can't always protect against all virus when downloading for sites you may not have accessed much in the past. He's certainly justified in that regard. But I'm sure you've adopted methods that ensure your files are free of any particular "internet nasties."
quote:
2. If people don't read posts and ask a question that is answered in that post, I don't see why you shouldn't tell them that they didn't read the post.
Okay, I think we've established that. Now, let's get to the business of discussing your work.
quote:
3. I have no intent to have it included on Candlekeep at this time. I was simply offering it. I have only been working on it for about a week, so obviously I'm just starting.
Fair enough. Should you change your mind eventually, I recommend you contact either myself, one of the other Mods, or Alaundo directly.
quote:
4. I obviously just signed up on the site, though of I've known about it for years, it seems like the majority of people here are in their 30's. Is this accurate?
Around the 30's would be slightly more accurate, though not completely. Judging by some of the profiles and the like, we've got quite a mix of age-groups here at Candlekeep. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 23:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I did read your post, but I don't feel comfortable downloading documents unless I absolutely know where they are from. I don't trust BitTorrent sites and the like. I was simply confused when you posted the listing, and I was making a suggestion.
I will note that mediafire.com is usually fairly vigilant when it comes to virus protection on their download sites. Or, rather, it has been when I've used it in the past.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 03:00:30
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I see that you've got the stories from RotD2 in there. I heartily approve. 
For clarification, my novel Depths of Madness takes place in the last tenday or so of 1374, and the last chapter ends on 1 Hammer 1375.
I know the rough time frame for Crypt of the Moaning Diamond as well (it's not what you'd expect), but I can't quite find the exact date at the moment. Ping Rosemary, and she'll get you a date.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 03:03:20
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Couple more notes on dates for you.
Song of Chaos - End date should be 1370
Gorlist's Dragon - 1301 - 1323 (can't remember whether it's specifically stated in the text or if I figured it out from time clues, but the story spans 22 years)
Necessary Sacrifices - 1342 - 1344 (Time clues indicate 2 years pass during the story)
Swords of Eveningstar, Swords of Dragonfire, and The Sword Never Sleeps all take place entirely in 1348.
Spellfire - Ed Greenwood states in the "Best of Ed" that the prologue takes place in 1356
A Slow Day in Skullport - Text in story dates story to the time of Shandril's Saga. Therefore it must take place in 1357
Rise of the Blade - 1370 (This is a book that was never released, but the rites for the book were bought back by the author who placed it on the web. It was meant to be part of the Harpers series before it was cancelled. You can find it for download in the cancelled books section of O-Love's site in word format. It's obviously non-canon, and I have not yet read it.)
Shamur's Wager - The story refers to Tamlin as an infant. I believe he is 20 in The Lord of Stormweather, so I would place this story 1353.
Unholy - Takes place entirely in 1478.
That's all I got for you. Hope it helps. |
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Zakiel
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 03:57:43
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Edited by - Zakiel on 10 Dec 2010 15:09:34 |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 21:34:58
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When Even Sky Cities Fall - Takes place at the fall of Netheril (hence the name of the story). That puts the date at -339.
The Fires of Narbondel - Although WOTC dates the start of Homeland at 1297, I choose to trust BEAST's reasoning and his date of 1298 to be more accurate. It's been a while since I've read this story but I'm pretty positive it states that Drizzt is 10 or says something like "in his decade of life." That would place this story at 1308. |
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Zakiel
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 23:44:42
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Edited by - Zakiel on 07 Jan 2012 05:59:56 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 00:26:58
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| I think that Ed's Spin-a-Yarn tales are canon, in fact I thought, per his agreement, everything about the realms he writes is canon. I think that is why it takes a while from GenCon until he posts them , so as to make sure everything works. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 00:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by mnb128
The Fires of Narbondel - Although WOTC dates the start of Homeland at 1297, I choose to trust BEAST's reasoning and his date of 1298 to be more accurate. It's been a while since I've read this story but I'm pretty positive it states that Drizzt is 10 or says something like "in his decade of life." That would place this story at 1308.
I'd add that for any of the stories by RAS, Beast's timeline is much more accurate than WotC's. His list can be found here: http://rasalvatoreforums.yuku.com/topic/4372
And your "view online" links are working |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 09:03:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Zakiel
I have to disagree that everything that Ed writes is canon. It's possible that everything of his that has been published is canon though. At least that's the "official canon" anyway.
Well, if I remember correctly it is in the original Realms contract. Everything Ed writes is canon unless contradicted by another gaming product. |
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Zakiel
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 10:01:05
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Edited by - Zakiel on 10 Dec 2010 15:10:13 |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 16:06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Zakiel
quote:
Well, if I remember correctly it is in the original Realms contract. Everything Ed writes is canon unless contradicted by another gaming product.
I was just arguing semantics. Technically his unpublished work isn't canon because, well, it hasn't been accepted as canon. I don't know about the original contract, but it was a work-for-hire, then he probably doesn't really any rights to the realms actually.
Everything he writes may be contractually considered "canon", but that doesn't mean it should be. Example: "One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta." There is no Zirta. If they wanted to truely make it canon they should have changed Zirta to Scornubel when published (Ed has indicated that in the official Realms Zirta was changed to Scornubel). Also, parts of the Shadow of the Avatar series don't make sense based on events and timeframes in the original Avatar series, but they were published anyway. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 16:16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by mnb128
quote:
Originally posted by Zakiel
quote:
Well, if I remember correctly it is in the original Realms contract. Everything Ed writes is canon unless contradicted by another gaming product.
I was just arguing semantics. Technically his unpublished work isn't canon because, well, it hasn't been accepted as canon. I don't know about the original contract, but it was a work-for-hire, then he probably doesn't really any rights to the realms actually.
Everything he writes may be contractually considered "canon", but that doesn't mean it should be. Example: "One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta." There is no Zirta. If they wanted to truely make it canon they should have changed Zirta to Scornubel when published (Ed has indicated that in the official Realms Zirta was changed to Scornubel). Also, parts of the Shadow of the Avatar series don't make sense based on events and timeframes in the original Avatar series, but they were published anyway.
I don't think that "One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta" is a good example, since it predates the contract. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 16:32:06
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quote:
[i]
I don't think that "One Comes, Unheralded, to Zirta" is a good example, since it predates the contract.
Understood, but they published it in The Best of Ed after the contract. If they wanted it to be canon, it should have been changed when officially published. To be honest I don't care whether it's canon or not. The Fires of Narbondel isn't considered canon and I read it anyway. I was just putting my 2 cents in for the debate. Unfortunately, with the current economy my 2 cents are probably only worth about 1 now, so you may just want to ignore me and consider my opinion near worthless.  |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 02:55:08
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No, Zakiel, I sat through a GenCon seminar long ago where TSR execs and Ed explained all of this.
Ed's contracts SINCE the Realms were bought have been work-for-hire, but everything Ed writes about the Realms, published or not, is canon, by the terms of the original purchase contract (until contradicted by a later official TSR - - now WotC - - product).
In other words, you and I wouldn't know about the Realms at all, except as little fragments of one DM's campaign world in Dragon articles from 1979 on, if TSR hadn't bought the Realms. The contract by which they bought the Realms, so it became an official setting (and a product line) enshrines Ed Greenwood's writings as THE canon Realms. Until contradicted by a later official published product. So Ed's unpublished notes are canon . . . until contradicted etc. What he posts here at the Keep, through The Hooded One, is canon, until etc.
mnb128, Zirta wasn't "changed" to Scornubel when it was published. Zirta and another settlement on the other side of the river, got combined and collectively referred to as Scornubel IN THE REALMS, after that story took place. That, too, has been asked about and answered before, at GenCon and elsewhere. So the story is, and remains, canon.
"Canon" for the Realms isn't set by anyone's opinion about which author or which product is right; it's established in a legal contract. Anyone who dismisses that view leaves themselves with no valid alternative - - because those of us outside Ed's home gaming group really wouldn't know much of anything about the Realms at all if that contract hadn't been signed, and we got to see a flood of published Realms products as a result.
I recall some idiot designer at a computer company that had licensed the Realms dissing Ed's creation years ago and saying THEIR version was more "canon" because it seemed more logical and better game-balanced than the original. Gary Gygax's comment on that at the time was something like: "I hope this guy never gets his hands on the movie rights to Tolkien, because if he thinks pink pigs in tutus are better than Tolkien's ents, then that's what we'll get in his movies. The word is 'canon' and not "cannon," as in 'Whatever I can shoot out of it.'" Heh.
None of which should be seen as crit of your valuable work at dating events and stories set in the Realms, Zakiel. For which: thanks!
BB
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 05:48:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
Zirta and another settlement on the other side of the river, got combined and collectively referred to as Scornubel IN THE REALMS, after that story took place.
And as the Lady Hooded One told us some time ago re: Zirta in the Realms:- "... it's now part of Scornubel (they "grew together" over time)." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 15:10:07
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Yes, that "other settlement" Blueblade refers to was called Scornubel. So one could say that Scornubel swallowed up Zirta.
And Blueblade's post is spot-on correct regarding what's "canon" in the Realms - - even despite what some company designers (who were obviously ignorant of the terms of the contract) have said at various times over the years. I attended that GenCon seminar, too (it was in the early Milwaukee years, perhaps GenCon 20 or 21 or 22; they all blur together in my mind, as the years pass).
Zakiel is to be encouraged in his dating and timeline work; it's a lot of work, but valuable to us all (yes, even Ed!)
love to all,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 15 Mar 2009 02:03:37 |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 16:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
No, Zakiel, I sat through a GenCon seminar long ago where TSR execs and Ed explained all of this.
Ed's contracts SINCE the Realms were bought have been work-for-hire, but everything Ed writes about the Realms, published or not, is canon, by the terms of the original purchase contract (until contradicted by a later official TSR - - now WotC - - product).
In other words, you and I wouldn't know about the Realms at all, except as little fragments of one DM's campaign world in Dragon articles from 1979 on, if TSR hadn't bought the Realms. The contract by which they bought the Realms, so it became an official setting (and a product line) enshrines Ed Greenwood's writings as THE canon Realms. Until contradicted by a later official published product. So Ed's unpublished notes are canon . . . until contradicted etc. What he posts here at the Keep, through The Hooded One, is canon, until etc.
mnb128, Zirta wasn't "changed" to Scornubel when it was published. Zirta and another settlement on the other side of the river, got combined and collectively referred to as Scornubel IN THE REALMS, after that story took place. That, too, has been asked about and answered before, at GenCon and elsewhere. So the story is, and remains, canon.
"Canon" for the Realms isn't set by anyone's opinion about which author or which product is right; it's established in a legal contract. Anyone who dismisses that view leaves themselves with no valid alternative - - because those of us outside Ed's home gaming group really wouldn't know much of anything about the Realms at all if that contract hadn't been signed, and we got to see a flood of published Realms products as a result.
I recall some idiot designer at a computer company that had licensed the Realms dissing Ed's creation years ago and saying THEIR version was more "canon" because it seemed more logical and better game-balanced than the original. Gary Gygax's comment on that at the time was something like: "I hope this guy never gets his hands on the movie rights to Tolkien, because if he thinks pink pigs in tutus are better than Tolkien's ents, then that's what we'll get in his movies. The word is 'canon' and not "cannon," as in 'Whatever I can shoot out of it.'" Heh.
None of which should be seen as crit of your valuable work at dating events and stories set in the Realms, Zakiel. For which: thanks!
BB
Thank you for the clarification. I'm not a long time Realms follower, so I'm still ignorant to much of the lore and history. I humbly stand corrected.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 14:40:34
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The double-diamond novels are not considered canon, but some of the events have been canonized.
If you wanted to include them, they'd definately have to be pre-1375 DR (because Khelben's still alive), but going by other stuff (Erlkazar is in there), it should probably be post 1370. Other then that, they're hard to pin down (lots of inconsistencies).
And thanks for that geography lesson, THO. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Mar 2009 14:41:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 15:24:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you wanted to include them, they'd definately have to be pre-1375 DR (because Khelben's still alive)...
A possible *fix* that I've thought about incorporating into my own FR, is to suggest that the "Khelben" featured in the 1377 DR storyline of the DDTS books, was in fact Tsarra-in-the-guise-of-the-Blackstaff instead.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3252 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 17:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you wanted to include them, they'd definately have to be pre-1375 DR (because Khelben's still alive)...
A possible *fix* that I've thought about incorporating into my own FR, is to suggest that the "Khelben" featured in the 1377 DR storyline of the DDTS books, was in fact Tsarra-in-the-guise-of-the-Blackstaff instead.
Actually, didn't Steven put in Blackstaff Tower that Tsarra spent most of her first few years disguised as Khelben? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2009 : 16:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Actually, didn't Steven put in Blackstaff Tower that Tsarra spent most of her first few years disguised as Khelben?
Yes, and in fact, I could have sworn SES said she was able to "cover" for Khelben for two decades, actually. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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