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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jan 2009 : 20:54:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ErskineF
The FRCS says the opposite: "Shar has full control over the Shadow Weave and can isolate any creature from it or silence it entirely without any harm to herself." (p.57)
Was that overturned with 3.5?
Personally, I prefer it that way, because I would not want the Shadow Weave to become neutral ground. It's Shar's domain, and I would rather leave it that way.
I was just thumbing through Faiths & Pantheons, BTW, and came across this:
Mystra p. 52:
Deny Weave (unique salient divine ability) Mystra has the power to deny any creature, mortal or divine, the ability to access the Weave. Should she choose to do so, an affected creature cannot employ any spell or spell-like ability for as long as Mystra chooses to block his or her access to the Weave. This ability has no affect on a creature's ability to access the Shadow Weave.
Shar p. 60
Deny Shadow Weave (unique salient divine ability) Sharhas the power to deny any creature, mortal or divine, the ability to access the Shadow Weave. Should she choose to do so, an affected creature cannot employ any spell or spell-like ability granted through the Shadow Weave for as long as Mystra chooses to block his or her access to it. This ability has no affect on a creature's ability to access the Weave.
So, it sounds like their abilities to deny access are about the same. The only problem is that Mystra has so many more accessing the weave than Shar has accessing the Shadow Weave. If more people were to use the Shadow Weave, I believe it would be harder for Shar to notice/deny an individual. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 02:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
If you're interested in my two cents . . .
I think Shar "works in mysterious ways"--she can allow someone to *think* she's escaped from her clutches, become a good guy, and get herself well placed into, say, Selune or Mystra's faith, or the Harpers, and then arrange matters to snap her back to evil.
Now Shar's got a high-level, extremely influential sleeper agent who can corrupt and corrode good organizations from the inside. Perhaps she could start an entire "secret operations" wing of the Harpers (ala Moonstars, calling them instead, maybe, "Darkstars") who think they're supporting the cause of good, whilst really working against the Harpers.
(I don't know if anyone's seen Alias, but it would be much like that.)
That seems like a great theme for a campaign, particularly one with lots of skullduggery and intrigue.
Cheers
EDIT: Also, the highly placed good person might not know that she's evil, thinking that instead she's doing *good* things. And at some point she might start *doubting* whether her actions are her own doing, or Shar's influence through her. Did she just fail in a good task, or was she *programmed* to fail? (Guess I'm in a BSG mood too!)
I could see that... if the individual was evil to begin with.
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You could go the whole double agent route as you described, Erik, but then the initial description of the character is erroneous. If it were a description specifically for the DM to read to players to mislead them, that's one thing... but its another to be so undercover that the character description is misleading the DM, too.
A well taken point, N2H--I wasn't necessarily talking about that character in particular, just the concept. In Diedora's case, it seems to me, that if she was never *evil* than "redemption" isn't the right word. I see her capable of going either way, and I think that's the concept.
What's most interesting from a DM standpoint for me is "why was Shar interested in her in the first place?"
I suspect that Shar must have seen some great potential in her, in order to invest in what appears to be a lost cause. So that even if she's resisted evil thus far, Shar still sees a darker future in store for her. Diedora's "inner strength" probably just makes it more likely that she will ultimately serve Shar's purposes (in that sleeper agent scenario), or else just crushing a heart of light. (So cheery, aren't I?)
For a novel analogy, why would Mask pick Erevis Cale, who doesn't worship him and isn't evil?
A DM could certainly create a campaign around such a story--whether it's Diedora or a PC.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 02:10:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
quote:
Originally posted by malchor7
In fact, wouldn't it be pretty cool to have a "good guy" who can use the shadow weave--thus combating bad guys who've got it?
Shadow Stone Spoiler:
Well, Aeron Morieth is sorta-kinda-almost a good guy with the ability to use the shadow weave. I'm not quite sure, but I think his alignment is listed as CN. However, if I am remembering the book correctly, he seemed to me to be well on the way to good by the end.
He's actually Neutral as per the FRCS (IIRC!). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 02:50:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Wasn't that the purpose of the Shadow Weave in the first place? To supplant the dependency of accessing magic through Mystra?
It makes her followers independent of Mystra, so that they can't be blocked from accessing magic. I don't think she would necessarily want that for everyone. If she didn't keep it to herself just for the power, then she would do it for the paranoia implied in having 'Unrevealed Secrets' as part of her portfolio. :) |
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 04:01:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
A well taken point, N2H--I wasn't necessarily talking about that character in particular, just the concept. In Diedora's case, it seems to me, that if she was never *evil* than "redemption" isn't the right word. I see her capable of going either way, and I think that's the concept.
I guess it depends on how one interprets the Neutral alignment. Does it mean that her evil actions are balanced by good ones, or that she's sitting on the fence, trying not to take sides? The description sounds like the latter, but it's hard to imagine that she served as a Sharran priestess that long without ever doing anything evil.
quote:
What's most interesting from a DM standpoint for me is "why was Shar interested in her in the first place?"
Yes! And there the possibilities are endless. A goddess who's been around since almost the beginning of time would always be thinking long term, and her patience would be nearly infinite. Diedora could be just a small cog in a very intricate plot that won't come to fruition for another two hundred years. She could be part of a breeding program geared towards producing a Sharran "Kwisatz Haderach." (We know from the Shadowking novels that there are bloodlines with a talent for the manipulation of shadows.) Who could know what Shar wants her for?
quote:
Diedora's "inner strength" probably just makes it more likely that she will ultimately serve Shar's purposes (in that sleeper agent scenario), or else just crushing a heart of light. (So cheery, aren't I?)
There's one invaluable benefit that Shar could grant to a woman with a conscience who finds herself in circumstances where she has performed an evil act: Forgetfulness. Diedora's conscience could tie her to Shar more completely than another servant's lack thereof.
It's a very easy plot to arrange. In the course of her service to the church, Diedora becomes embroiled in a battle in which she kills (or seems to have killed) an innocent person--perhaps a child, maybe someone she loves. Afterwards, she has horrific nightmares in which she witnesses the event over and over in excrutiating detail. She's wracked by guilt and despair. Shar offers her the boon of forgetfulness, which she eagerly accepts.
Now she's hooked. If she leaves Shar's service, she has to deal with the nightmares and the guilt. Shar pushes her to commit more and more evil acts using the threat of withdrawing her forgetfulness if she refuses, but always allowing her to forget the evil deed afterwards as recompense--and as one more thing to blackmail her with later. 
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Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 22:07:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
What's most interesting from a DM standpoint for me is "why was Shar interested in her in the first place?"
I suspect that Shar must have seen some great potential in her, in order to invest in what appears to be a lost cause. So that even if she's resisted evil thus far, Shar still sees a darker future in store for her. Diedora's "inner strength" probably just makes it more likely that she will ultimately serve Shar's purposes (in that sleeper agent scenario), or else just crushing a heart of light. (So cheery, aren't I?)
Cheery? Of course not... but that's the kind of reasoning I would use. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 01:44:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
quote:
Originally posted by malchor7
In fact, wouldn't it be pretty cool to have a "good guy" who can use the shadow weave--thus combating bad guys who've got it?
Shadow Stone Spoiler:
Well, Aeron Morieth is sorta-kinda-almost a good guy with the ability to use the shadow weave. I'm not quite sure, but I think his alignment is listed as CN. However, if I am remembering the book correctly, he seemed to me to be well on the way to good by the end.
He's actually Neutral as per the FRCS (IIRC!).
I don't remember seeing an alignment listed for him in the FRCS. I can't remember where I read his alignment from, but I didn't think it was the FRCS. |
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Redeemed One
