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Originally posted by Blueblade

Well, the RPGA might cleave to "no exceptions" just to keep the lid on what some gamers will try to do with their characters, but I would also hold to the "there are always exceptions" view.

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Originally posted by The Hooded One


Torm, of courtse, couldn't resist a tasteless "boiled crabman" remark. Right up there with his: "Children. Heh. They're all the same - - on a platter, with an apple in their mouths."
[I don't defend the character, I merely report]
love,
THO

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Originally posted by Blueblade

... In the Time of Troubles we had "all" assassins wiped out at one stroke, remember? Except for all the assassins who somehow became exceptions (quite a few of them, as I recall, if you read the backgrounds of some published AND RPGA characters carefully - - meaning mid- to high-level assassins who'd begun being so before the Godswar and still were at some later point, with no mention of them ceasing to be assassins in the middle, so to speak).
Of course, some will certainly disagree, but that's my two cents. We have clear examples in canon of exceptions (not all of them of the "let's change class writeup" sort, as some did for Artemis), so therefore there ARE exceptions.
BB

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Originally posted by Galen

I can't remember why the big-wigs had decided to kill all assassins (besides the excuse that their god Baal was getting killed, ergo all assassins have to die as well),

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Galen

I can't remember why the big-wigs had decided to kill all assassins (besides the excuse that their god Baal was getting killed, ergo all assassins have to die as well),

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It was the other way around, actually... 1E had assassin as a PC class. This class was dropped when 2E came out. Killing off all of the assassins was part of adjusting the Realms from 1E to 2E. And since there were no assassins, they didn't need a god for them.

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Oh, boy. Part of me hates to provide clear answers here because doing so restricts or ties down future WotC Realms authors. On the other hand, I stoutly maintain the fiction that everything we know of the Realms comes through Elminster (or, on rare occasions, Laeral), so this conceit (of the sometimes-deliberately-unreliable narrator) should be enough to “explain away” inconsistencies between what I say here and what you may someday read . . .
My take on things is this: Dornal has met all of his daughters except Qilue (sorry, can’t do accent marks through this primitive e-mail [Hooded One note: Sorry, neither can I.]), because Mystra thought this might be too painful/mentally damaging to him, but she did carefully and covertly manipulate the other six of the Seven into meetings with him. Most of them know he’s still alive but have been privately, one-on-one, been mind-told by Mystra not to go looking for him because doing so will doom him to torment and death at the hands of evil beings seeking to force Mystra to do certain things (which she will have to refuse), and because it will harm his delicate mental state.
Some of the six Sisters realized who Dornal must be, during or after their encounters, but kept this knowledge from him. The Simbul did once openly rescue him from destruction (with a spell cast from afar, accompanied by a verbal message: “Father, I honour you!”) years after they met.
Dornal is bitter, but not as mentally fragile as all that, and is slowly “forgiving” Mystra (who went so far as to create a mortal avatar of herself whom he could physically punish and lash out at, to get back at her; he did so, and of course felt even worse). Mystra herself felt guilt over what happened to Dornal, and not only kept him alive far beyond his normal lifespan in an effort to bring him to “peace” before he died, but brought about these manipulated meetings (in each of which Dornal was made aware who his daughters were immediately after parting from them) in an attempt to heal his mental hurts.
In this, she largely succeeded, but Dornal is now suffering the same mental degeneration/utter exhaustion that most long-lived humans (such as Elminster and Khelben) do: the cumulative effects of repeatedly outliving friends, relations, and loved ones and seeing beloved places swept away or changed beyond recognition.
Dornal is still bitter over Mystra “using” him and his wife, and even feels bitterness about her obvious role in the manipulated meetings with the eldest six of the Seven, but knowing he has grandsons (some of whom he’s met), the passage of time, and Mystra’s clear sorrow and humbleness towards him have made these “old hurts” that are growing easier to live with. And there may even be some small satisfaction in knowing that he outlived the goddess that did this to him.
He remains a Watcher for the new Mystra, and even has some other “secret agent” duties for her (after all, a VERY experienced adventurer who really doesn’t care what happens to himself can be quite useful for certain tasks). It will probably come as no surprise to you to hear me say: “I’d love to do a novel about Dornal Silverhand’s doings in the Realms of today.” It probably also wouldn’t surprise you to hear that the long-suffering folks of WotC’s Book Publishing division are almost certainly heartily weary of hearing me utter that sentence, with various characters attached to it. :}
If you met Dornal Silverhand in the present-day Realms, you’d be seeing a tall, gaunt, cavern-eyed man of grim manner and utterly silent movements, who seldom speaks. He sees all (even tiny details, glimpsed momentarily), forgets nothing, and can reason very quickly (interpreting what he sees). He carries an astonishing variety of concealed weapons, knows the back trails, ruins, nearby caves, and other “quick getaway” features of locales across the Sword Coast North and the Heartlands of the Faerun better than most beings, and is utterly fearless (not bold or reckless; he simply doesn’t care what happens to himself).
He often tried to poison himself when it first became clear to him that Mystra wasn’t going to allow him to suicide, and she kept him alive by magically neutralizing lethal dose (or even combination ‘cocktail’) after dose, with the result that he’s now immune to all effects of most poisons, and suffers only minor harm from the known remainder.
Dornal’s hobby, as a onetime noble, has been to learn and keep straight the genealogies and family histories of divers nobility and self-styled nobility of Waterdeep, Sembia, and Cormyr, plus their exiled offshoots; as a result, he can smilingly deflate a noble dandy by revealing that their great-grandfather took the name and titles of a dead battle-comrade, and so the dandy and his kin really don’t deserve to be treated as nobles at all . . . or shock sworn enemies or lovers by revealing their true blood relationships to each other. He doesn’t go around doing so, of course, but he’s not above “taking care of” cruel or over-ambitious nobles by letting rivals or family members know some truths about skeletons in family closets.
His favourite daughters are Dove and Storm, the former because she’s the closest to him in manner and (in his eyes) the least “tainted” by her own spellcasting, and the latter because he’s watched Storm comfort folk, aid in childbirths, entertain with songs, and pitch in and help strangers fight fires, hunt down missing children, and the like, and has come to love and admire her as many folk in the Realms do. He also sees something of his own “don’t care what happens to my own skin” thinking in her deeds and behaviour, yet admires the way she couples it with empathy for others, and complete lack of personal pride.
He once gave all of his clothing to shivering beggars on the road near Neverwinter and walked naked into a blizzard, hoping to die numbed and unaided (Mystra, of course, has other ideas), and was awed when he once witnessed Storm disrobed completely to give all of her clothing to freezing folk who’d been driven out of their (wooden) home by fire, and then lead them for miles to shelter (striding naked through the snow to her farmhouse). A sort of: “That’s my girl!” admiration. (Storm’s casual attitude regarding nudity should of course be well-known to Realms fans and detractors by now. :})
Sembia is a place where wealth and boredom have reached sufficient levels that young nobles and inheritors are doing all sorts of crazy things, just now, and magically-gifted individuals often manage to indulge themselves (and yet survive) long enough to develop some of their potential. Silverymoon has long been such a place, too, and Everlund increasingly so. As a result, Dornal has been spending a lot of time quietly and covertly observing magic-related activities in these three places, walking everywhere and working alone. He has acquired some minor magic items that aid in healing and in disguise, and “the new Mystra” (who seems to admire him) has been covertly recharging these items, ‘beefing them up’ on occasion, and even surprising Dornal (and sometimes, pursuers) with casting feather fall or teleport spells on him that he wasn’t expecting, and isn’t quite sure of the origins of. On the other hand, she doesn’t watch over him closely, and he’s spent some agony-filled days crawling with broken limbs and ribs, or lying almost bloodless, waiting for wounds to heal under the slow benison of his healing magics. Yet he seems to have found reasons, at least for now, to keep going and to serve the new Mystra as capably as he knows how.
<snip>

And there you have it, from the Master himself. Me, I’m just (ahem) His Master’s Voice.
Hmmph. Well, I guess THAT advertised my age to everyone. Sigh.
The Hooded One

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[In 767 DR, the year of Qilue's birth and Elue's death] Dornal spurned his lands and children, never to return. For the next 20 [should be 30] years he raged across the North as an adventurer seeking his own death in reckless attacks on orcs, monsters, and brigands. He saved his deepest hatred for evil mages. Mystra watched over Dornal Silverhand, and death was not so easy for him to find. When he met his end at last, in a single-handed hillside battle against raiding orcs in the Year of the Hearthstone (797 DR), he called on Mystra to remember him. His words made it clear that he had guessed she had been protecting him. She was so touched that she offered him existence as a servant: the Watcher, who wanders the Realms seeking out potential new Chosen and looking out for magical problems. Dornal accepted and-unnoticed by mortals-continues this service to this day.

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Originally posted by Blueblade

Well, the RPGA might cleave to "no exceptions" just to keep the lid on what some gamers will try to do with their characters, but I would also hold to the "there are always exceptions" view.

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Originally posted by Jakk

So saith Ed... but which Ed's right?

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Originally posted by The Sage

Additionally, it is important to note that only those characters in the Realms who had the assassin class would've actually died [which means any unstatted characters before this time could have easily survived the event].

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Originally posted by Markustay

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Originally posted by Jakk

So saith Ed... but which Ed's right?

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Silly boy... BOTH!

The first is obviously Ed describing things in his own campaign - which hasn't reached the point of the published Realms. The second is the official outcome in the canon Realms.

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