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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 21:03:46
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Glad to hear it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 04:29:27
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Maybe we'll get lucky and Hasbro will put WOTC and the D&D license, or just the D&D license if they want to keep MTG, up for sale and Paizo will buy it 
I hope you're right there, I really do. However, I don't think it will happen, more for pragmatic reasons than anything else:
1) As previously stated, Hasbro is a toy and game company. I suspect that, as feared by other scribes, Hasbro's D&D 5E will be like "Descent plus roleplaying, with roleplaying optional". Either that, or they will figure out what they did wrong and reset the Realms to (a) before the Smellplague happens, (b) before the Return of the Archwizards happens, or even (c) before the Attack of the Clone Wizards was unceremoniously terminated. I would be happy with any of those. I'm not optimistic about anything like that happening, unless the rumours about a Greyhawk reset to before the Wars are true, as this would set precedent for rewinding world clocks.
2) My basic life philosophy is what I call "optimistic pessimism"; I always hope for the best and expect the worst. When you keep your hopes and expectations in opposition, all of your surprises will be pleasant ones. I forgot to obey this little rule in the lead-up to 4E, and my lapse very nearly caused me to dump my favourite hobby and my favourite place.  You can be sure I won't be doing that again. It's only a mistake if you do it more than once; otherwise, it's just an experiment.  This is advice that Wizbro should take to heart.  As such, to return to my original point, I am expecting that Asmodeus will be needing Thinsulate before anything good happens to the published Realms, so I am proceeding to create my versions of all the lore that Wizbro is keeping locked up under NDA, and I will then make my lore public ASAP, and I encourage others to do the same. If Wizbro's version is different from mine (or any of yours), then I guess it will be all about whether or not their version is good enough, and published quickly enough, to cause us to "return to canon" (if that phrase has any meaning left any more).
Enough said. [/rant] |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 21 Dec 2008 04:36:58 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 04:38:40
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| Just be careful Jakk. If you get too close to 'publishing' your own lore, using a lot of registered trademarks and names without their permission, you will feel the full brunt of WotC/Hasbro legal teams. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2008 : 04:55:42
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Thanks for the warning Ashe; I'm well aware of the difficulties involved with such a project, but I think it's still easier than curing corporate creative constipation. Yes, I was being deliberately alliterative there.
Edit: Besides, the closest thing to "publication" that I'm pondering is scrolls here at the 'Keep, clearly marked as "non-canonical lore"; if this is something that Alaundo would prefer that I avoid, I understand completely.
The Spellplague: Making us happy to be mortal since 2008AD/1385DR. (That might have to go in my sig...) |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 21 Dec 2008 05:00:21 |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 01:46:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Maybe we'll get lucky and Hasbro will put WOTC and the D&D license, or just the D&D license if they want to keep MTG, up for sale and Paizo will buy it
I hope you're right there, I really do. However, I don't think it will happen, more for pragmatic reasons than anything else:
1) As previously stated, Hasbro is a toy and game company. I suspect that, as feared by other scribes, Hasbro's D&D 5E will be like "Descent plus roleplaying, with roleplaying optional". Either that, or they will figure out what they did wrong and reset the Realms to (a) before the Smellplague happens, (b) before the Return of the Archwizards happens, or even (c) before the Attack of the Clone Wizards was unceremoniously terminated. I would be happy with any of those. I'm not optimistic about anything like that happening, unless the rumours about a Greyhawk reset to before the Wars are true, as this would set precedent for rewinding world clocks.
2) My basic life philosophy is what I call "optimistic pessimism"; I always hope for the best and expect the worst. When you keep your hopes and expectations in opposition, all of your surprises will be pleasant ones. I forgot to obey this little rule in the lead-up to 4E, and my lapse very nearly caused me to dump my favourite hobby and my favourite place. You can be sure I won't be doing that again. It's only a mistake if you do it more than once; otherwise, it's just an experiment. This is advice that Wizbro should take to heart. As such, to return to my original point, I am expecting that Asmodeus will be needing Thinsulate before anything good happens to the published Realms, so I am proceeding to create my versions of all the lore that Wizbro is keeping locked up under NDA, and I will then make my lore public ASAP, and I encourage others to do the same. If Wizbro's version is different from mine (or any of yours), then I guess it will be all about whether or not their version is good enough, and published quickly enough, to cause us to "return to canon" (if that phrase has any meaning left any more).
Enough said. [/rant]
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I do fear that you are probably right, Jakk  |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 03:23:32
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| There were always little things here and there that I ignored, so putting my fingers in my ears and pretending that most of the 4E changes never happened won't be much of a stretch for me. I still do hope for the best, but I think at this point, the best is that Hasbro decides they aren't making enough money off of D&D and sells it. |
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Ikki
Seeker
Finland
57 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2008 : 04:35:39
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hmmm.. some of the archwizards events was a bit, iffy, but overall it turned the desert with some beduins(??!!!), arabian 20th paralell desert crops (close to the polar circle .... ) and that awesome gemspell (5 saves, 0-1 perm hp lost, for ~30k in gems iirc), into a something slightly more believable.
Especially after the city landed.
In the meantime netherese ruins recieved more light, and you can always be racing against a opposing shadovar team (or either retaking or even defending). And another pole in the thay vs halruaa on whos the greatest.
Even evereska brought into awareness as something other than a 3-liner, where all non-elves are being killed for even thinking they can come near, being somewhat centrally located as it is.
As for Khelben "silverfire thorn apart" Maeridrym Arunssons death, well it was wellwritten and sent him straight to walhalla and immortality. Halasters death was so badly written its just begging to be ignored. Even Sammaster just went down in a somewhat non-fitting manner. Iryacleia i never cared about, althought i find it hard to belive auril wouldnt allow a resurrection :P
Now, whether the city of hope should be visitable or even findable.. as opposed to am mythral enshrouded thingy noone knows exists.. remains to be determined.
Myth Drannor also has a fate undetermined at this time. Merely an army in plunder amongst ruins for how long? I suppose the return of the 3 towers and the ruling blade may change something.. and the spellblade.. (even if in the hands of a warlock half-orc.. lol)
Now that sets in my view the basis for the restart.
Can paizo do it?
Certainly did well with the papers, once they figured out adding rpga to the magazines wasnt in anyones best intrest, and figured out to have 1 low, 1 med and 1 high in each magazine. Or a high level bigventure... every now and then.
Certainly this would include taking over much of the crew.. and some old ones dropped off over the years.
Overall huge expenses, not just in licence, but in getting a office of sorts to house another 50+ people.. dangerous in the extreme during these uncertain times too. Especially as hasbro is bound to take a pound of flesh even for their failed 4e d&d.. as 3.5 was so profitable. (and percieved big investements as there were no new products for 18 months, just "working" on 4e)
So to get the price set to a logical level, we need to wait 2-3 years and a ever more shrinking market, profit projections. But also fanbase.
Still i suppose that if they can bring d&d back alive, it just may bounce up just like after the death of tsr, when nothing was heard or seen for well over a year. |
Edited by - Ikki on 22 Dec 2008 04:39:26 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 04:20:04
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So, I'm going to take a small break from the boards over the holidays. Not because of the holidays themselves, but because I was in the bookstore today and picked up Plague of Spells just to skim through and see what's up.
And I couldn't do it. I couldn't read word one since pure disgust took over. The novel is almost completely set in 1396 DR, and I had a lot of trouble just with that. I knew it would be set during the Spellplague years, it wasn't the surprise factor. It's just more of a feeling that a certain lead designer who was the team lead for the changes to the Realms was also 'tapped' to write a book set during a time that was told to be off limits for all future novels, except for this one trilogy.
I know that we shouldn't point fingers, blame any single person. I also know that, from reading a lot about BC and having enjoyed some of his 3.X design work, he is a very qualified game designer. Personally, I haven't liked nor disliked his fiction, I know others have liked his work, but my personal tastes don't include him. But I can't shake that there's this hubris going on that he's trying to leave his stamp on the Realms and make it the biggest stamp of all.
Anyway, that's my personal opinion, and I'm hoping for a 5th edition that retcons a lot of the changes in the Realms, or at least just go back to 1375 and erase the Spellplague from the 'future'.
In closing, Happy Holidays to all and bundle up with someone(s) you love to keep warm (I'm hoping there's going to be a certain Hooded One under my tree on Christmas morning ). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 04:32:47
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| I have mixed feelings about whether or not I will read Plague of Spells. I have always loved lore about abberations and this would seem to be about aboleths based on the name of the trilogy, but just hearing the title of the book makes me cringe. I feel like I really want to keep up with the newer Realms books, but doing so is just going to make me angry/depressed. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 04:33:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
In closing, Happy Holidays to all and bundle up with someone(s) you love to keep warm (I'm hoping there's going to be a certain Hooded One under my tree on Christmas morning ).
-I'm not making a cameo appearance at your house, so you can stop asking. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2008 : 16:18:50
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| Ashe, I can understand the sentiment, I'm having trouble reading the Fractured Sky, because I know what it's leading into. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2008 : 00:18:26
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...and I'm back.
I had to take the break because I was really getting some dark rage boiling up and didn't want it around here. I have to agree with you dwarvenranger, I'm running into that problem a lot lately with Realms novels (and Eberron novels, not that you mention it). I finally finished up Shadowrealm over Christmas after postponing it for a while due to the ending. And I've outright avoided other books.
I think it's a shame that I can't bring myself to read good stories written by great authors because I can't stand the subject matter. Normally, this isn't a problem for me.
Anyway to find our way back to topic, new editions are pretty much a given in our current market, it's simply a matter of time. With software versions being updated every 2-4 years and video games (*cough* EA Sports *cough*) having updates annually, RPGs only take longer than the others. This may change as everything becomes more technologically integrated. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2008 : 23:30:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
...and I'm back.
I had to take the break because I was really getting some dark rage boiling up and didn't want it around here. I have to agree with you dwarvenranger, I'm running into that problem a lot lately with Realms novels (and Eberron novels, not that you mention it). I finally finished up Shadowrealm over Christmas after postponing it for a while due to the ending. And I've outright avoided other books.
I think it's a shame that I can't bring myself to read good stories written by great authors because I can't stand the subject matter. Normally, this isn't a problem for me.
Anyway to find our way back to topic, new editions are pretty much a given in our current market, it's simply a matter of time. With software versions being updated every 2-4 years and video games (*cough* EA Sports *cough*) having updates annually, RPGs only take longer than the others. This may change as everything becomes more technologically integrated.
I think the way they are trying to "technologically integrate" is a mistake. Making people pay a monthly fee for the material to be available to them online is great for Wizbro, but awful for everyone who subscribes. Having access to the material while you are under subscription, but losing it once you stop subscibing makes it a waste of money IMO. Not to mention, I don't think access to a few little online articles is worth nearly as much as having those magazines in hand. They don't seem to realize that a large number of people who play D&D are collectors and therefore would rather have something tangible that they can keep and look over again and again. |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 20:54:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Not to mention, I don't think access to a few little online articles is worth nearly as much as having those magazines in hand. They don't seem to realize that a large number of people who play D&D are collectors and therefore would rather have something tangible that they can keep and look over again and again.
I'm definitely agreein with ya here. I miss my Dragon and Dungeon mags!  |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2008 : 23:29:57
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| I was tooling around the WotC boards today and noticed that there seems to be a LOT of people complaining about DDi on the boards. Is it just me, or does it seem the electronic initiative is failing? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 01:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I was tooling around the WotC boards today and noticed that there seems to be a LOT of people complaining about DDi on the boards. Is it just me, or does it seem the electronic initiative is failing?
I don't know if it's failing, cause I don't have anything to do with DDi. However I know others that do and they're saying the same thing as yourself, Ashe. I could care less one way or the other if DDi makes it or not. However I'd love to see the license for Dragon and Dungeon returned to Paizo  |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2008 : 02:37:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I was tooling around the WotC boards today and noticed that there seems to be a LOT of people complaining about DDi on the boards. Is it just me, or does it seem the electronic initiative is failing?
-What do you think? Compare what was promised (at the launch of 4e, none the less) with what is available right now. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 22:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Is it just me, or does it seem the electronic initiative is failing?
Without a major and sudden turnaround, yes it will fail. They only have the lowest hanging fruit of the DDI actually released to the public, they're making no promising as to when the other promised applications will be released, and they've fired some major people involved with the project.
Beyond that however are the sheer number of complaints by people about being unable to cancel the auto-renew on accounts, which the system requires you to turn on before subscribing (they just don't offer the option to not have it renew upon the end of the purchased period). You can't just toggle something online to turn it off, you have to go through Customer Service to have them manually turn it off for you. And of course that's a double problem when the system to contact customer service continually crashes or goes into a loop for a large number of people trying to do just that. Very poor programming and very poor support towards the people paying them money for a product seriously behind in development. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2009 : 22:58:56
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| Wow, I'd not head about that other stuff... With that info, it does seem to me to be a lost cause. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2009 : 00:12:34
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| That auto-renew issue reminds me of problems people had with AOL, back around 2000... I know I had to bail on them around then, and it took me about 10 minutes of searching -- with my workplace's high-speed connection -- before I found the number to call to get them to cancel the service. And mere months later, they got in trouble for continuing to charge people after receiving requests to cancel the service... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2009 : 03:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That auto-renew issue reminds me of problems people had with AOL, back around 2000... I know I had to bail on them around then, and it took me about 10 minutes of searching -- with my workplace's high-speed connection -- before I found the number to call to get them to cancel the service. And mere months later, they got in trouble for continuing to charge people after receiving requests to cancel the service...
Yeah I was one of those people |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2009 : 19:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Heh. That actually puts me off the idea of subscribing to DDi.
Me too... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2009 : 20:06:07
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| can't wait for the 5e |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2009 : 19:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That auto-renew issue reminds me of problems people had with AOL, back around 2000... I know I had to bail on them around then, and it took me about 10 minutes of searching -- with my workplace's high-speed connection -- before I found the number to call to get them to cancel the service. And mere months later, they got in trouble for continuing to charge people after receiving requests to cancel the service...
Same here...
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2009 : 20:10:30
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I had an DDI subscription, in part because I was hoping to see the new Realms articles (heh), and in part because I'm playing in a 4E game and I liked the idea of being able to look up rules on the Compendium instead of getting every book that came out.
While I didn't mind the Dragon content (I liked some of the articles a lot), and I loved the Compendium, and heck, I even thought the Character Generator, even in its limited form, looked pretty good . . . almost every weekend something would happen and I couldn't log on for hours and hours at a time.
When I would look around the various forums, I could find people with similar but not quite the same problems, and when I contacted customer support, they told me on two separate instances that there were no problems with my account and they had never heard of anything similar.
I decided to cancel my account, and as has been mentioned, it took me forever to find where I needed to go, and how to actually cancel the account.
The content really wasn't bad, especially if you are a fan of 4th edition, but the customer service, reliability, and the ease of actually paying for an account and/or canceling it are all major problems right now. Given how quirky the reliability is, its really sad that this is the medium that is suppose to be providing ongoing support for the campaign settings once the "three and out" books have been published. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3766 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2009 : 17:49:07
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I had an DDI subscription, in part because I was hoping to see the new Realms articles (heh)...
-That might take a while, so I hear. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2009 : 19:19:41
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| What bothers me about DDi is the inflexibility of it. It's all or nothing. Before you could pick and choose whether you wanted to buy a certain supplemental book or whether you wanted to buy that issue of Dragon. Now, if you want any of it, you have to pay for all of it, whether you subscribe for all of it or just a few articles. To me it also feels like they are trying to be exclusive. You have to be "in on" their service in order to get quite a lot of the information. They print information-sparse books and then to get the rest of it, you need to shell out even more money for a service that really isn't working as well as was promised. Even the name implies exclusivity: D&D Insider. I always felt before like I didn't have to join the RPGA to game, or subscibe to Dungeon if I only wanted certain adventures here and there, but now you have to be fully involved in the community or you will be excluded. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2009 : 19:53:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
What bothers me about DDi is the inflexibility of it. It's all or nothing. Before you could pick and choose whether you wanted to buy a certain supplemental book or whether you wanted to buy that issue of Dragon. Now, if you want any of it, you have to pay for all of it, whether you subscribe for all of it or just a few articles. To me it also feels like they are trying to be exclusive. You have to be "in on" their service in order to get quite a lot of the information. They print information-sparse books and then to get the rest of it, you need to shell out even more money for a service that really isn't working as well as was promised. Even the name implies exclusivity: D&D Insider. I always felt before like I didn't have to join the RPGA to game, or subscibe to Dungeon if I only wanted certain adventures here and there, but now you have to be fully involved in the community or you will be excluded.
That's a lot of my problem with it. I'm interested in Dragon articles, and in the occasional Dungeon adventure that pertains to the Realms. If I could subscribe to just Dragon, and get single issues -- or even better, single articles -- from Dungeon, then I'd prolly sign up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2009 : 23:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's a lot of my problem with it. I'm interested in Dragon articles, and in the occasional Dungeon adventure that pertains to the Realms. If I could subscribe to just Dragon, and get single issues -- or even better, single articles -- from Dungeon, then I'd prolly sign up.
Wooly's take mirrors my own.
I was deeply saddened by the demise of the printed version of DRAGON. And initially took some [limited] solace from the notion that the online version would be available for subscription as part of the DDi. But that's largely all I've wanted from the DDi so far. I don't have much need for the other stuff, like the "Rules Compendium" because my games operate on my own rules system that combines elements from many rules sets. So it's another reason why I've been reluctant to sign up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Will there be a 5th Edition?
