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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jun 2020 : 22:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
It was always just odd to me how different Turmish is from what Akabar described it as in Finder's Stone trilogy (exotic trading obsessed culture) compared to Jewel of Turmish (which is very generic wilderness and Alaghon a generic medieval port city).
Different interests, different perspectives?
I mean, one of them is a mage-merchant who mostly thinks of caravan stops and bazaars,
the other is concerned with wilderness and matters of grander scale - like random murder of lumberjacks, or being as elf-friendly as possible, or "oops, we are ears deep in dead guys and surprisingly the only strong church around consists of druids who cannot turn". 
quote:
I wondered which is more Ed's vision for the land, and it appears both are. Which strikes me as odd. Given Jeff Grubb co-wrote the OGB, I'm going to go with Akabar's version in my head canon.
Vilhon Reach sourcebook kind of fits both. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2020 : 23:44:03
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Obviously today's world has hugely multi-cultural countries and societies; but the Realms outside of perhaps Waterdeep seem a lot more mono-cultural (at least among the individual races) in most of the countries. It just strikes me as quite odd that the Akabar Bel Akash version of Turmish, and he is quite a proud Turmite, never mentioning Calimsham once if that is the case of his origin, is never brought up once in the Jewel of Turmish book. I read one throw away line about a merchant with a square beard at the docks. I suppose Akabar's version with earings to mark who is learned or can cast spells and has multiple wives is a sub-culture in a secluded portion of Turmish outside of Alaghon--then both versions fit; but it really does seem more like a continuity error than a deliberate thing.
Jewel of Turmish was published in 2002, long after Jeff Grubb had parted ways. It reads more like Mel Odom wanted a book about the Emerald Enclave (in the Cities series of all things) and any old Turmish references from the Finder's Stone were ignored.
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neutrondecay
Acolyte
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2020 : 15:59:41
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I have recently been trying to resolve this myself, and my answers are as follows:
1) There has been a long history of Calishite migration to Turmish, especially before Calimsham was reunified under the Djenispool dynasty. Most Turmishmen of Calishite heritage are well-integrated, see themselves as Turmish first and foremost, and may not even remember when their ancestors arrived from Calimshan.
2) Polygamy is a widespread cultural norm throughout the area around the Shining Sea, and less so going north - but the Vilhon Reach area more so than the coast. Tethyr has long sought to differentiate itself from Calimshan, and this is generally, though not universally, a way in which this is done.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2020 : 15:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Sorry for the resurrection of the scroll.
I was re-reading Jewel of Turmish this week and it struck me that the Turmish described by Akabar Bal Akash in The Finder's Stone is really not what we get in the Jewel of Turmish novel. I asked Ed on Twitter and he says that it is because Turmish is a big country and has various sub-cultures.
My own suspicion is that Jewel of Turmish was written about the Emeral Enclave first (something Akabar never mentioned once despite it being a prominent feature of Turmish culture IMHO) and without any reference to the trading culture where men have many wives (something with more of a Middle-Eastern, Northern African flair?).
There is the possibility that Akabar bel Akash and his family are actually of Calishite origin (which would explain the "many wives" thing) and that he is part of an ethnic minority in that realm. Something that is very common IRL.
-- George Krashos
That's possible. Another possibility is that Untheri names and customs might have remained in some places around the Vilhon Reach, considering that th original Turami were displaced by them (and that significant minorities in Mulhorand, Unther and Chessenta are still of Turami descent) and that Unther ruled provinces and colonies that stretched at least to Reth, if not further. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2020 : 23:15:37
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Master Rupert,
I did in fact find 170 or so of the Polyhedron magazines in pdf. Would you like me to share them?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2020 : 23:50:44
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Great Reader Dallison,
You are correct about your overall assertion that it was not a unified population. The Turami for example originally came from the Alamber Sea region when they were refugee's from the fall of Imaskar. They ultimately ended up founding what is now Turmish in -37 DR, a couple hundred years after the elven High Mages of Nikerymath brought about the tsunami that destroyed the Twelve Cities of the Sword in what is now the Vilhon Reach. What is now Turmish was the norther province of Jhaamdath, called the Granite Grates. It was heavily fortified before the tsunami, and largely survived with the Turami people fleeing to the mountains, and coming back afterwards.
That is just one of many ethnicities of humans that ended up coming to that area, a part of then Jhaamdath. Even before Jhaamdath (which came about in roughly -5800 DR) was Coramshan, a predecessor country before Calimshan. There have been people migrating all around that very large expanse of the Realms between then Coramshan and Jhaamdath for millennia. Pretty cool history I think. :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
770 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2020 : 00:59:56
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
I did in fact find 170 or so of the Polyhedron magazines in pdf. Would you like me to share them?
Polyhedron is a published work just like DRAGON, cpthero2 
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
cpthero2, posting snippets or excerpts of published works is commonly allowed at the 'Keep, but posting links to pirated material (under which category full issues of DRAGON magazine fall) is very much not.
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Senior Scribe AJA,
I appreciate you mentioning that to me: thank you.
I went and refreshed on the Code of Conduct. I overlooked item 13 (or didn't remember it). I'll edit that post.
Thanks!
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AJA
YAFRP
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2020 : 02:14:39
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Senior Scribe AJA,
I figured I would put it out there and check about that very issue.
I appreciate you mentioning that before I did so: thank you!
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2021 : 11:57:41
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Sorry for the resurrection of the scroll.
I was re-reading Jewel of Turmish this week and it struck me that the Turmish described by Akabar Bal Akash in The Finder's Stone is really not what we get in the Jewel of Turmish novel. I asked Ed on Twitter and he says that it is because Turmish is a big country and has various sub-cultures.
My own suspicion is that Jewel of Turmish was written about the Emeral Enclave first (something Akabar never mentioned once despite it being a prominent feature of Turmish culture IMHO) and without any reference to the trading culture where men have many wives (something with more of a Middle-Eastern, Northern African flair?).
There is the possibility that Akabar bel Akash and his family are actually of Calishite origin (which would explain the "many wives" thing) and that he is part of an ethnic minority in that realm. Something that is very common IRL.
-- George Krashos
After doing my own research on Turmish, I am also inclined to agree that Akabar bel Akash and his family is probably not originally from Turmish. First there is the name, which sounds more Calishite than Turmishan. Second, polygamy is not really a Turmishan custom (save for religious groups that worship Chaunteau, and these include two wives and two husbands). Also there are the dots on the forehead that Akabar has. While this custom has been repeated in a few sourcebooks, it is very inconsistently applied. It is 1) never mentioned in the Jewel of Turmish or the Reaver, 2) it is never depicted on any art of any Turmishans and 3) the custom does not even originate in Turmish, but rather in the Academia Vilhonius in Chondath. So the dots on the head practice is Chondathan, not Turmishan, which suggests even further that Akabar's family is not native to Turmish. Possibly Akabar lives on the northern coast of the Vilhon Reach which, technically part of the Turmish mainland, is on the other side of the Aphrunn mountains and is likely more heavily influenced by the cultures of the Lake of Steam, Chondath, and Calimshan. |
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Turmish
