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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 12:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Maybe this will help some.
684 DR (The Year of the Sundered Crypt) - Dwarves of the clan Tarynstone are found digging deep tunnels under the city (Myth Drannor) despite the long-held prohibitions against such actions. Furthermore, some elf Houses are outraged that the dwarves' tunneling in restricted areas collapsed some nigh-forgotten deep crypts of the elder or long-gone Houses. Clan Tarynstone and its 350 dwarves, despite a cry within the Ruling Council for death sentences and an equally loud cry for acquittal, are exiled from Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr. The clan emigrates west into the Thunder Peaks. (Source: Fall of Myth Drannor)
989 DR (The Year of Dark Stalking) - Dwarven miners from a remote outpost of Thunderholme inadvertently broke into Aurgloroasa's lair and roused the very old shadow dragon from a decades-long sleep.
1001 DR - (The Year of the Awakening) Aurgloroasa began to whisper dark thoughts in the dreams of High Old One Dagan, son of Belgin, blood of Jangarak. Over the next 33 years, the ambitions of Thunderholme's high priest of Dumathoin grew as did his madness and his obsession with death.
1034 DR (The Year of Bane's Brood) - When the aging monarch (King Emerlin III) died in his sleep shortly after the disappearance of his only child, the crown prince, on a trade mission to Selgaunt, Dagan was quickly named Regent of Thunderholme. (Both the king and the prince were victims of Aurgloroasa's shadowy agents.) Within months, construction was begun on a grand temple to Dumathoin in the heart of Thunderholme.
1054 DR (The Year of the Tolling Terrors) - In a grand ceremony of dedication attended by all the dwarves of Thunderholme, the dwarven regent-priest dedicated the temple complex to Null, not Dumathoin, and named it the Necropolis of the Wyrm. As news of the unspeakable deed spread through the crowd, Dagan completed the unholy ritual by summoning the "avatar" of his new god and Aurgloroasa was loose in the city. In the chaos that followed, fewer than 30 dwarves escaped the maelstrom of evil that had been unleashed. Within a tenday, Thunderholme was a lifeless city, reeking of decay.
Rest of these come from the old 2E Cult of the Dragon book.
It's possible clan Tarynstone joined Thunderholme or perhaps they founded the remote outpost mentioned above. Judging from what we know of the place's architecture, such as: Immense halls and chambers supported by titanic pillars and cut from the heart of the living mountain have become magnificent sepulchers. Immense friezes depicting dwarven nobility and the daily lives of the common folk stand as monuments to the long-dead inhabitants; I'd assume Thunderholme took many centuries to carve out.
And with Dumathoin being the Keeper of Secrets, it's possible this place has existed for quite a long time. Definitely another place I'd love to see more detail on.
Thanks, Eilserus!
That is actually something I hadn't thought about... it may very well be that Dumathoin had "hidden" the kingdom from outsiders, and perhaps the dwarves were suspicious of both elves and humans. In any case the Realmslore provided suggests the Keeper of Secrets was the patron deity of Thunderholme. Whether this kingdom was hidden also from other dwarves, such as Clans of Oghrann and Tethyamar... hmmm, I don't know. It seems unlikely. I doubt Thunderholme was completely self-sufficient anyway, and likely traded with smaller clanholds and Tethyamar...
And that bit about Clan Tarynstone was something I didn't know. Wow. As you said, it is unlikely that this city was built in a century or two.
I think I'm going to use an earlier date for the founding of Thunderholme; maybe 15 DR (Year of Glittering Glory), or a few years after Tethyamar was retaken by the Iron House (around -70 or -80 DR). This way my players won't be inquiring about why they didn't help Tethyamar. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 13:24:47
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For GEN-CON this year, harking back to yesteryear when such occurrences were more commonplace, I provided the Candlekeep Seminar gathering with a copy of a timeline I had created for Impiltur in GHotR format (but better - with references).
Alaundo has just posted it to the 'Keep in the Traveler's Notebook section. Have a look and let me know what you think.
Kudos for anyone who can spot some of the Easter Eggs or hidden in plain site links.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 23:15:16
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| Just started reading this. Love it! George, you sir, are a rockstar! |
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Lukas Kain
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2014 : 01:56:04
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| You know, I had just finished working on my own tentative timeline for Impiltur, taking notes from everything I could find from books to Candlekeep to some posts George had made on the Realms-L list. This is wondrously perfect because it completes my amateur list, and answers some lingering questions I had. I had wondered what this project you kept alluding to was, and I'm thrilled at the finished product. Masterfully done, George. Your research, crafting, and citing are all top-notch. By the by, thank you for including the references; it will no doubt help me out that much more. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2014 : 02:51:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Krash, you've written of Oghranni (?) dwarves in this very thread. I wonder if you have any knowledge about Oghrann's most prominent clans? 'Dwarves Deep' lists the major shield dwarf clans, but it seems most of them wandered towards Worldspine mountains, Waterdeep and Mirabar after the kingdom's fall. Which clans might have traveled eastward, other than Iron House of Tethyamar? And did Tethyamar's inhabitants include other clans beside the Iron House, e.g. Brightblade dwarves from Daggerdale?
To expand on that, is it common that, for example, Clan Dunderhead's hold might also have a few Watchever, Darkfell or Worldthrone dwarves? (i.e. families or individuals from "major" clans)
Do I have any 'knowledge' of the clans of Oghrann? No, I don't. Other than a few Oghrann mentions, the only real knowledge we have about that kingdom is in FR11 and there is no real information on any clan names - although you could probably assume that the most prominent clan was Firebeard (after its first king - although that might have just been his moniker).
Eric and I might get to Oghrann one day, but realistically that's a question of years rather than months I reckon.
I could ... ahem ... make up some stuff. But you could do so just as easily. Is this for a campaign, backstory or just wanting to fill in some lore gaps for your own edification?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2014 : 03:01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I've also much enjoyed your lore on Tethyamar. What would be your educated guess of when Thunderholme was founded? I'm thinking of following years (in DR): -26, 127, 149, 227 and 250. Year of the Dwarf would fit nicely, but then again, Hlundadim's army assaults Cormyr around 200 DR, and I find that would have been a great opportunity for Tethyamar and/or Oghrann clans to expand into Thunder Peaks. Ergo, Year of Raised Banner (227) or Year of the Storm Crown (250) would work nicely. Or was Thunderholme, in your humble opinion, an independent kingdom and not an outpost of Tethyamar/Iron House?
Also, do you think there were refugees/clans from fallen Delzoun in Tethyamar and Thunderholme?
You have to understand that other than Ammarindar and Delzoun, the other great dwarven kingdoms fell millennia before the raising of the Standing Stone. While some dwarves and clans of the Stormhorns and the Tethyamar mountains might claim ancestry with dwarves of Oghrann, Ammarindar, Delzoun or all three, those links would be tenuous.
My view is that the dwarves that survived the fall of Oghrann eked out an existence in the Stormhorns for centuries. The fall of Delzoun saw an influx of dwarves into Ammarindar, which in turn saw an influx of dwarves into the mountains around Cormyr. In my realms it was this influx that cemented the hitherto tenuous position of the dwarves of Tethyamar, as many dwarves flocked to its halls.
As noted by Eilserus, "Cult of the Dragon" provides some information on Thunderholme. Ed would know for certain, but I would have it founded after the raising of the Standing Stone, and likely as a single clan hold with no significant population. I wouldn't think that the number of Thunderholme dwarves was ever greater than 2,000-3,000. I don't think it would have had any refugees from either Delzoun or Oghrann, but the clan that ruled there may have been a sub-clan of one of the ancient clans of Oghrann.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2014 : 03:04:16
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Thanks for the nice words re the Impiltur Timeline. Note that there is a typo on the first page (I clearly can't spell "Magnificent") and endnote 121 refers to endnote 119 (not XXX).
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 17:51:24
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
[quote]You have to understand that other than Ammarindar and Delzoun, the other great dwarven kingdoms fell millennia before the raising of the Standing Stone. While some dwarves and clans of the Stormhorns and the Tethyamar mountains might claim ancestry with dwarves of Oghrann, Ammarindar, Delzoun or all three, those links would be tenuous.
My view is that the dwarves that survived the fall of Oghrann eked out an existence in the Stormhorns for centuries. The fall of Delzoun saw an influx of dwarves into Ammarindar, which in turn saw an influx of dwarves into the mountains around Cormyr. In my realms it was this influx that cemented the hitherto tenuous position of the dwarves of Tethyamar, as many dwarves flocked to its halls.
As noted by Eilserus, "Cult of the Dragon" provides some information on Thunderholme. Ed would know for certain, but I would have it founded after the raising of the Standing Stone, and likely as a single clan hold with no significant population. I wouldn't think that the number of Thunderholme dwarves was ever greater than 2,000-3,000. I don't think it would have had any refugees from either Delzoun or Oghrann, but the clan that ruled there may have been a sub-clan of one of the ancient clans of Oghrann.
-- George Krashos
Thanks, Krash! 
This helps a lot, and you're correct; any blood-ties to Oghrann would likely be thin.
Something I'm curious about, though: you don't think it'd be possible that Thunderstone was founded by -- or had among its inhabitants -- members from one of the "major" clans listed in 'Dwarves Deep', such Clan Darkfell, Rockfist, Stoneshield et al.? Or members of the Tarynstone clan, who fled to Thunder Peaks from Myth Drannor?
This touches on something I find hard to grasp, namely which of those FR11 shield dwarf clans reside(d) where, or are they widespread and found to be almost anywhere in the North? Or are some of them extinct by now, such as Clan Deepdelve mentioned in relation to the Dungeon of Death? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 18:52:34
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| We really need a NEW Dwarf sourcebook for the Realms. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 19:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We really need a NEW Dwarf sourcebook for the Realms.
/drool!
I'd be all over that like a hobo on a ham sammich! |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 19:48:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
[quote]You have to understand that other than Ammarindar and Delzoun, the other great dwarven kingdoms fell millennia before the raising of the Standing Stone. While some dwarves and clans of the Stormhorns and the Tethyamar mountains might claim ancestry with dwarves of Oghrann, Ammarindar, Delzoun or all three, those links would be tenuous.
My view is that the dwarves that survived the fall of Oghrann eked out an existence in the Stormhorns for centuries. The fall of Delzoun saw an influx of dwarves into Ammarindar, which in turn saw an influx of dwarves into the mountains around Cormyr. In my realms it was this influx that cemented the hitherto tenuous position of the dwarves of Tethyamar, as many dwarves flocked to its halls.
As noted by Eilserus, "Cult of the Dragon" provides some information on Thunderholme. Ed would know for certain, but I would have it founded after the raising of the Standing Stone, and likely as a single clan hold with no significant population. I wouldn't think that the number of Thunderholme dwarves was ever greater than 2,000-3,000. I don't think it would have had any refugees from either Delzoun or Oghrann, but the clan that ruled there may have been a sub-clan of one of the ancient clans of Oghrann.
-- George Krashos
Thanks, Krash!
This helps a lot, and you're correct; any blood-ties to Oghrann would likely be thin.
Something I'm curious about, though: you don't think it'd be possible that Thunderstone was founded by -- or had among its inhabitants -- members from one of the "major" clans listed in 'Dwarves Deep', such Clan Darkfell, Rockfist, Stoneshield et al.? Or members of the Tarynstone clan, who fled to Thunder Peaks from Myth Drannor?
This touches on something I find hard to grasp, namely which of those FR11 shield dwarf clans reside(d) where, or are they widespread and found to be almost anywhere in the North? Or are some of them extinct by now, such as Clan Deepdelve mentioned in relation to the Dungeon of Death?
So, George and I have been using that list as a "list of available clan names". So far, we've worked out Delzoun, some of Besilmer, and some of Ammarindar.
We've got the idea of primary clans and affiliate clans, usually tied to one hold. Over time, those clans move around as mines play out, dwarfholds get overrun, or new riches beckon. Sometimes clans die out or all but die out, and other times, new clans are formed.
We've been using those clan names primarily for Delzoun, as that's the most famous dwarf realm, but they could be used for any shield dwarf kingdom.
More later. (Much later. We've made notes for a future "for fun" Delzoun-area sourcebook, but we've got to finish off the elves first. Bwahahahah.)
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 23:59:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
So, George and I have been using that list as a "list of available clan names". So far, we've worked out Delzoun, some of Besilmer, and some of Ammarindar.
We've got the idea of primary clans and affiliate clans, usually tied to one hold. Over time, those clans move around as mines play out, dwarfholds get overrun, or new riches beckon. Sometimes clans die out or all but die out, and other times, new clans are formed.
We've been using those clan names primarily for Delzoun, as that's the most famous dwarf realm, but they could be used for any shield dwarf kingdom.
More later. (Much later. We've made notes for a future "for fun" Delzoun-area sourcebook, but we've got to finish off the elves first. Bwahahahah.)
--Eric
Oooh, you're a shameless tease, Eric! But, who cares about elves... it's dwarves we all want! Give us the new 'Stout Folk and the Clans of the Realms' book!  
But, seriously, this is something that's really been bugging me... not knowing if certain clans have "primary" strongholds or areas. Or whether they still exist. For example, I initially had Foehammer, Stoneshoulder and Deepdelve clans written down as potentials founders of Thunderholme, until I Googled them. Then I did the same with Stoneshield and Quarrymaster, and realized that George had already associated the former with Delzoun and the latter with Tethyamar, on this very thread. I think Deepfell is probably the only shield dwarf clan name left "unused" in FR11. 
In any case, most of those clans seem to have lived either north, west or north-west of Cormyr anyway.
I could come up with a small clan of my own, say "Darkhammer" or "Shieldstar" or whatever. But here's the thing; I don't even necessarily need to know which clan Emerlin belonged to. I'd rather have a better picture of *where* those dwarves came from, and have a few clan names (some probably "major" ones, others more obscure smaller clans) that would "make sense" to live in Thunderholme. Let's say the PCs find a crypt belonging to Clan Stoneshoulder, and I'm sure my players would point out how "Stoneshoulders built bridges around Loudwater, they did not live here". Likewise with Deepdelve or Foehammer. I could tell them that these clans are global, or that a group of that clan wandered to Thunder Peaks from Loudwater 1000 years ago. But it might feel a bit weird if I said there were actually 2000 Stoneshoulder or Foehammer dwarves in Thunderholme (which would likely make it the MAIN fortress of the clan in the Realms).
So, I'm not entirely sure if a single major clan in a kingdom surrounded by so many enemies is "enough". And yet there is nothing in canon about Thunderholme trading or having a relationship with any other dwarven kingdoms or clan holds. It's as if they were an isolated and self-sufficient community that sprang into existence out of nowhere.
After giving it some serious thought, I personally see Thundeholme being founded by many minor clans and clanless individuals, and later on serving as a hidden "haven" for refugees of fallen kingdoms. For example, there are Tarynstones of Ammarindar, who were cast out of Myth Drannor and went to Thunder Peaks, and I think they might have wanted to join Thunderholme rather than try to make it on their own (by establishing a small hold on the eastern flank of the mountains). I can also imagine that at least some minor clans from Tethyamar might have wanted to expand their influence in a new kingdom, one known for its miners and craftsmen. And maybe at least a few dozen dwarves of Storm Peaks (who came from fallen Delzoun) might have done the same, too. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 16 Dec 2014 00:01:02 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 00:11:19
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| And Krash, that Impiltur timeline is just AMAZING! :) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 01:09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Krash, you've written of Oghranni (?) dwarves in this very thread. I wonder if you have any knowledge about Oghrann's most prominent clans? 'Dwarves Deep' lists the major shield dwarf clans, but it seems most of them wandered towards Worldspine mountains, Waterdeep and Mirabar after the kingdom's fall. Which clans might have traveled eastward, other than Iron House of Tethyamar? And did Tethyamar's inhabitants include other clans beside the Iron House, e.g. Brightblade dwarves from Daggerdale?
To expand on that, is it common that, for example, Clan Dunderhead's hold might also have a few Watchever, Darkfell or Worldthrone dwarves? (i.e. families or individuals from "major" clans)
Do I have any 'knowledge' of the clans of Oghrann? No, I don't. Other than a few Oghrann mentions, the only real knowledge we have about that kingdom is in FR11 and there is no real information on any clan names - although you could probably assume that the most prominent clan was Firebeard (after its first king - although that might have just been his moniker).
Eric and I might get to Oghrann one day, but realistically that's a question of years rather than months I reckon.
I could ... ahem ... make up some stuff. But you could do so just as easily. Is this for a campaign, backstory or just wanting to fill in some lore gaps for your own edification?
-- George Krashos
Sorry, Krash, missed this post for some reason. It's for my campaign; I'm using goblins and barghests of Hlundadim as one of the main plots/enemies, and trying to link Thunderholme and/or Tethyamar into a dwarf PC's background. Now, we're talking about a sizable group of 11th level PCs, so I can use nigh-epic stuff against them. Maybe even the "Lord" of Thunderholme (Heh heh!) at some point.
I was hoping to get Oghrann into the picture, too; perhaps only as background lore, but I was also dreaming of naming some ancient clans and clan holds, if possible. And i'd better not mess it up by using, for example, Foehammers or Ironstars. In that sense it'd be better just to make up clan names... but I first wanted to know if you'd already given the issue some thought. 
And I'm going to feature a first glimpse of Thunderholme and its mystery during the Christman holiday, in a week or so. That is why I've been so persistent in my questions (and apologies for that; normally I'm a really patient guy).
(As for King Firebeard, I think that may be just a moniker; a lot of the kings in FR11 and other sources seem to be 'Frostbeards', 'Ironbeards' and 'Stonebeards') |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 02:51:44
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If you have the old 2E Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms, on page 108 is a picture of the entry cavern to Thunderholme. A large cavern with homes built into the rock. Very nice picture.
There's also a neat story dealing with Lorrick finding one of the keys to enter the hold. And what happens when their adventuring group does enter.
Also, Thelarn "Swifthammer", son of Mongoth who is entombed at the Hill of Lost Souls. He gifted his axe Skysplitter to Lorrick and it was supposedly forged in Thunderholme. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 16 Dec 2014 03:04:33 |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 22:20:08
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| First of all: I love your lists of plays, drinks, books and songs of the Realms. Thank you! In your 'Book list of tomes in Candlekeep' the 'High History of the drow' is listed first as having been written in 1366 and counting 4 tomes and later as counting only one and having been written c.-200 ... which one is right? I have a vhaeraunite who'd like to consult it. |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 23:31:51
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| Any news on 'History of the Heartlands'? |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 01:04:56
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| You mention Askavar in your write-up for Dornavver in Champions of Valor. Do you have any more information (Timeline?) on this elven realm. Thanks in advance (and thanks not in advance for the truly superb realmslore you produce!). |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 14:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
First of all: I love your lists of plays, drinks, books and songs of the Realms. Thank you! In your 'Book list of tomes in Candlekeep' the 'High History of the drow' is listed first as having been written in 1366 and counting 4 tomes and later as counting only one and having been written c.-200 ... which one is right? I have a vhaeraunite who'd like to consult it.
Both.
The single copy is a direct copy of the original penned by the drow sage Shahaerynus and obtained from Myth Drannor. The copy was penned in -200 DR while the original, lost in the fall of the City of Song, was penned in -250 DR and gifted to Coronal Tannivh of Cormanthyr. Both the original and the copy were scribed in Deep Drow.
In 1366 DR, Morthran of Candlekeep translated the copy contained there into Common as the original's great age and increasing fragility made perusing it a constant risk of degradation and damage. The Great Reader ordered another 3 copies of his work to be created also. So, in simple terms, there are actually 5 copies of the book The High History of the Drow contained in Candlekeep. The original in the drow language, now rarely handled, and four copies in Common which are more readily accessible.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 14:13:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
Any news on 'History of the Heartlands'?
No news. Eric and I glance over that way every so often, but won't be visiting for some time.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 14:53:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
You mention Askavar in your write-up for Dornavver in Champions of Valor. Do you have any more information (Timeline?) on this elven realm. Thanks in advance (and thanks not in advance for the truly superb realmslore you produce!).
I'd be just speculating if I came up with anything. We know that the realm existed into the 500s DR before falling, and my Dornavver piece has it existing as early as the 350s DR, but that's about it. As to where the elves came from, and what elven sub-group (i.e. gold, moon, green) they were, is anyone's guess.
If I had to 'make a call' on the place, I'd have it founded by the Starym just prior to the raising of the mythal in Myth Drannor as they leave the city in increasing numbers at the prospect of the Opening. It wouldn't be a nice elven realm, quite the contrary, and it's 'fall' is actually an abandonment as the Starym return to Myth Drannor when Ilitran succeeds in drawing the family moonblade.
In my mind that would explain how the elves survived in that isolated wood for a few centuries despite being surrounded by humans and monsters. No one screws with the Starym.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2014 : 17:19:55
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Uhm, i feel bad about reposting questions i posted a couple of pages back but since you are in an "answering spree" and the questions seem to have been overlooked i'll dare, begging your forgiveness.
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Hi George,
what do you think will the various Lords of Imphras II and Queen Regent Sambryl do after the coronation of Imbrar Heltharn II with the end of both the Regency and the Council of Lords?
To shorten the list, consider that Lords Helimbraun, Oriseus, Silaunbrar, Engarth, Soarglim, Rilimbraun and Simgar died in my campaign in various Soneillon-related events.
Another question, did Mage Royal Selarbrin have any offsprings/successors/apprentices that he was grooming to continue the family line and take his place as new Mage Royal? (Yeah, he died too, my players took a while to catch up with the Soneillon-orchestrated intrigues so there were many casualties in Impiltur). If the answer to the above is "No" in one way or another, how is going to be appointed the new Mage Royal? And who is in "pole position" among archmages of the kingdom or foreigners to get the seat?
Thanks!
I'll note that your wondrous HHoI answers for the fate of Queen Sambryl but if you care to elaborate further on her retirement i won't complain. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 04:01:15
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Just checking in via Candlekeep, Krash.
I've sent you two compilation update files and a "Have you received them" message via email over the last week and a bit. But I've yet to hear back from you. So I'm assuming my email is playing up again? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 06:31:49
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I've just e-mailed through. I must be operating on Sagetime!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 06:45:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Hi George,
What do you think will the various Lords of Imphras II and Queen Regent Sambryl do after the coronation of Imbrar Heltharn II with the end of both the Regency and the Council of Lords?
To shorten the list, consider that Lords Helimbraun, Oriseus, Silaunbrar, Engarth, Soarglim, Rilimbraun and Simgar died in my campaign in various Soneillon-related events.
Another question, did Mage Royal Selarbrin have any offsprings/successors/apprentices that he was grooming to continue the family line and take his place as new Mage Royal? (Yeah, he died too, my players took a while to catch up with the Soneillon-orchestrated intrigues so there were many casualties in Impiltur). If the answer to the above is "No" in one way or another, how is going to be appointed the new Mage Royal? And who is in "pole position" among archmages of the kingdom or foreigners to get the seat?
Thanks!
Well, prior to the accession of King Imbrar II, I have the Lords located as follows:
Lyrabar – Oriseus, Rilimbraun and Limbrar.
Sarshel – Silaunbrar and Rilaunyr
Hlammach – Helimbraun, Soargilm and Engarth
Dilpur – Delimbrar and Idriane
Laviguer – Haelimbrar
Ilmwatch – Simgar
Are your deaths just prior to the new king's crowning or over time leading up to it? Not that that is all that important, I suppose. I had plans for both Helimbraun and Simgar to be "touched" by Soneillon and potentially revolt against the new king, but there was nothing definitive there.
I similarly have never decided what each, specific Lord would "do" after the king's accession - I always thought it important for DMs to have flexibility in that regard. In simple terms, I considered that those remaining of the original 12 would retire gracefully (being old) save for Haelimbrar who would become something of an obsessed warmaster, seeking a fight to give himself a glorious end. The girls would actively seek to try and find Imbrar a royal match (and retain favour by being the new queen's confidants - it helps that Idriane is a Sune worshipper in that regard), while the younger Lords would either retire to their estates and just "do what nobles do", throw themselves into religion-related stuff, or travel (likely as ambassadors for the new king).
I left all that very broad on purpose. Do whatever suits your campaign best!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 29 Dec 2014 10:07:52 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 07:01:13
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Merry Xmas to you all.
The Artificers – A Tale of the Raumathari
It was in the Year of the Yarting (-163 DR) that Elenoss the Talespinner displayed his craft at the court of Arkhan Tallos IV of Raumathar, known to sages and historians alike as “the Artificer”. At the time of its recounting, before the unleashing of the Great Conflagration, it was considered to be a cautionary tale and one that caused Elenoss to suffer the Arkhan’s displeasure. The lessons of history now show that Elenoss had something of the seer about him and his tale bears repeating here …
Of old, our forefathers served masters great in magic. The Imaskari, or “Artificers” as some call them now, held sway from the balmy Golden Water to the frigid shores of the Great Ice Sea. Great was their mastery of the Art and greater still was their passion and hunger for yet more magic. Their lasting fame and legacy to history was their skill at crafting golems, constructs of magic that the world has yet to see rivalled.
As the years passed, some Imaskari formed a brotherhood of mages that they called the Conclave of Artificers, where all with such skill or a desire to learn the Art of automata would be made welcome. Led by their first great leader Agyrr the Magnificent, the Conclave sent out heralds on dragonback to invite far-flung wizards of ability to join their knowledge to that of the Conclave and such was Agyrr’s powers of persuasion and force of personality, that many flocked to Inupras to join him and his ever-growing school of wizards.
And so in time the deeds of the Conclave became known to one Wardde who made his home in the far northern forest known as the Shalhoond, or Great Wild Wood. Wardde used his magic to “meet the dragon”, as sharing knowledge with the Conclave came to be known, and was soon recognised by his peers for his intuitive mastery in the Art of golem creation. Soon, golems of Wardde’s construction were being copied by other members of the Conclave as he unveiled many different golems that he had carefully crafted in his tower-home in the forest. His followers became legion and his work became the standard for all to marvel at and aspire to.
The Conclave invited Wardde to join them in full membership but he refused; not in arrogance, but for his love of home and family. He freely shared his Art and would refuse no-one, so his decision did not cause issue as he continued to provide ever-greater Art and spell-lore to the Conclave. At this time the arch-artificer Jarff spoke strongly in support of Wardde and his works and methods, and the Conclave accepted his decision not to live in Inupras and join them in their craftings.
When Jarff’s time was ended, the storied artificer Vesten became Wardde’s voice in the Conclave and they unveiled wondrous creations to the Imaskari people. Their golems took on sophisticated forms and functions and the Conclave benefited greatly from their labours. Not all wizards of Imaskar were affiliated with the Conclave however, and many denigrated their efforts and achievements or sought to champion their own golem creations. But the advances in golem mastery and Art that Wardde and Vesten had brought to Imaskar could not be ignored, and their work continued, increasing the power and prestige of both the Conclave and Imaskar as a whole. Golems were used as servants but more importantly in Imaskar’s armies and the security of the realm soon relied upon Wardde and the legacy of Art he had wrought.
Such were the skill and achievements of Wardde that he soon attracted followers of skill in Art who were not of the Conclave and had no desire to join. Wizards of power such as Logarn and Orgis “the Unseen” learned much from the teachings of Wardde and he and Vesten embraced their work and craftings, bringing them to the Conclave and promoting them there. But not all the members of the Conclave were prepared to allow Vesten and Wardde to receive the kudos and approbation of their peers. Led by Nyl of Akaber, members of the Conclave engineered the exile of Vesten for crimes imagined and the wizardry of Wardde lost its greatest supporter.
Dissension in Imaskar was mirrored by dissension in the Conclave as other wizards and the people of the realm embraced different magic and golems became thought of as “Art of the past”. The call for Wardde’s work grew less and less and Imaskar’s golem armies were left to languish, their magic fading. The Conclave grew desperate, seeing their growing irrelevance as a harbinger of loss of status and life of penury, and so they sought to create a new form of golem, one not seen before in the lands of Imaskar. But their golem creations were unstable, their magic rooted only tenuously in the amassed spell-lore of golem creation which Wardde had so carefully gathered and disseminated to the Conclave, and the self-serving ways of the Conclave members did little to gain them the favour of the ruler of Imaskar.
None know Wardde’s fate with the fall of Imaskar, but all know that the vaunted golem armies of that realm failed to save them. Some survivors of the fall blamed Wardde and his followers while other, wiser loremasters pointed to the Conclave and their selfish ways. Their craftings now belong to the ages. However, the golem magic and spell-lore of Wardde exists still, to be found by those who hold a love of Art deep in their hearts. What they will make of Wardde’s legacy is something known only to the gods. Let us hope that the gods smile upon them when that time comes.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 21 Dec 2014 07:06:34 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 11:23:43
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Thanks for the answers and for the Raumathari Tale!
The deaths were all in early Eleint, so a month before the coronation, and were as follows:
- Simgar died fighting demons at the Citadel of Conjurers;
- Silaunbrar was killed by Engarth due to their Soneillon-inspired obsession with the fair Rilaunyr (that i turned into a half-nymph just because);
- Soarglim and Rilimbraun died protecting the Queen from demonic assassins (the same night Selarbrin was killed by assassins and brought back to life by my players while Rilaunyr was almost killed but saved in time by the players);
- Helimbraun died a traitor's death while fighting against the players that uncovered his Soneillon-inspired machinations to abolish the monarchy and give more powers to the Council of Lords;
- Oriseus and Engarth led the charge against the invading Soneillon-sponsored horde (with the various high level threats detailed in Unapproachable East) to atone for the support they gave to Helimbraun's machinations, giving the players time to dispatch those high level threats and thereby granting Impiltur's army a chance to win the day (which it did). At the same time Selarbrin gave his life to collapse a series of tunnels under the Rawlinswood that another big force of hobgoblins was using to get into Impiltur behind the Impilturan army.
I never thought of the "finding a royal match" angle, that's a great suggestion! I'll now start to dig around 1370s royal lines and check who's available for young Imbrar: i guess Alusair is a bit too old for him (but he's probably a great match, maybe just a tad more pious than what she can bear) while the Tethyrian princesses are about 10 years younger than him ... uhm, wasn't there a young unwed Westgate noblewoman with ties to the old Westgate royal line still alive?
I forgot to ask but i think that the Knights of Imphras II will not dissolve at the coronation of Imbrar Heltharn II so i think any surviving Lord with ties to the Knights will turn into a full-time leader of the order with no more state affairs keeping his schedule busy, right? |
Edited by - Demzer on 21 Dec 2014 11:25:35 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 12:47:34
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Correct re the Knights of Imphras II. They are effectively the Royal Guard of the kingdom, and I would assume that with his coronation, Imbrar II effectively becomes the new Grandmaster of the Order (although that would be titular and it would retain is own leadership and organisation).
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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