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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 16:55:24
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Hello Brian,
I have a couple of questions about pre-Cormyr I hope you can answer:
1) Assuming dwarves were active in the Thunder Peaks and Stormhorns during Thauglamorious’ reign, did this great dragon ever concern itself with gathering tribute from the dwarves? Particularly if they gathered resources from the surface world under which they lived?
2) Did Thaug’s territorial claim extend beyond the forested land cradled by the mountain ranges to include the mountains themselves?
3) Were there any heroic dwarves who challenged Thaug as Illiphar did, but failed? If yes, can you talk about the terms the dragon might have made with the defeated dwarves, and whether Cormyr has knowingly (or unknowingly) inherited the rights to those terms?
Thanks very much for your time.
P.S: To any WotC staff who happen to read this: Please ask Brian Cortijo to write a novel set in Cormyr! |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 22 Aug 2012 18:04:51 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 17:49:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Hello Brian,
I have a couple of questions about pre-Cormyr I hope you can answer:
Hi! I'll do my best.quote:
1) Assuming dwarves were active in the Thunder Peaks and Stormhorns during Thauglamorious’ reign, did this great dragon ever concern itself with gathering tribute from the dwarves? Particularly if they gathered resources from the surface world under which they lived?
Dwarves were somewhat active in the mountains during that era (well, relatively speaking; remember that Thauglor ruled the region for centuries), but didn't have much by way of surface activity. The foothills of the mountains of both ranges were kissed by the Hullack and Cormanthor, so occasional lumber forays were possible, but not common--most (shield) dwarf communities have long since adapted to underground living.
For his part, Thauglor was mostly unconcerned with the dwarves as long as they stayed in and inside their mountain homes. The dwarves of the Storm Horns had plenty of goblins to deal with, and served as a good buffer against the gangly little pests, so he left the bearded vermin be. Thunderholme (in the Thunder Peaks) came later, but was outside of Thauglor's area of interest, anyway.quote:
2) Did Thaug’s territorial claim extend beyond the forested land cradled by the mountain ranges to include the mountains themselves?
Thauglor's main concern was the low-lying land. As a black dragon, he didn't have any interest in the mountains themselves, only as using them as a sturdy fence to keep out rival dragons. He didn't roost or hoard in either range (naturally preferring the swamps), but did aggressively hunt down dragons growing in power before they became a threat to him.quote:
3) Were there any heroic dwarves who challenged Thaug as Illiphar did, but failed? If yes, can you talk about the terms the dragon might have made with the defeated dwarves, and whether Cormyr has knowingly (or unknowingly) inherited the rights to those terms?
There weren't. Not because the dwarves weren't brave enough to face the dragon, but because no dwarf would be stupid enough to put a single hammer or axe against the teeth, claws, wings, and muscle of a powerful dragon, whether or not he promised not to breathe out acid. Which a battle-tested dwarf wouldn't believe, anyway.
There was at least one band of brave dwarven souls who attempted to ambush and defeat the Purple Dragon, but soon found themselves captured, and then prepared, eaten, and slain. But that's a more gruesome tale than what you asked for.quote:
Thanks very much for your time.
Not a problem. 'Tis what I do.quote:
P.S: To any WotC staff who happen to read this: Please ask Brian Cortijo to write a novel set in Cormyr!
Can't argue with such good sense, can I? |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 18:15:46
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Awesome. Thank you very much for the unexpectedly swift reply.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 19:07:54
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I mentioned this in another thread, but I figured I should say it here in your thread: I very much enjoyed our lunch, and am sorry it took nearly two days to realize who you were.
Take it as a compliment - you were so 'professional' (about making sure everyone and everything kept their appointments like herding Ed to the Candlekeep meet-up) that I took you for a (con) handler. While everyone else was acting chaotic and going off on tangents, you seemed to remain focused on task (something I can't imagine any gamer doing at Gencon).
Ergo, it is because of the way you were acting - so professional through all the confusion - that made it take me so long to finally read your name tag, and I am still embarrassed by that. Like I said, I will treasure that lunch with you and the 'James Gang' for a long time to come.
Thanks --- Mark
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Brian , thanks for all of did to help make the Candlekeep seminar go so well.......and that giveaway....that had your fingerprints all over it. Very sweet! It's already in the safe, until I can think of the right place for it.
It was all my pleasure. That it happened at all was a good thing. That WotC took notice, and showed up, and listened, is a Very Good Thing. Having a giveaway was important for us as organizers, and since we can't really give away lore stuff (we're freelancers, so we'd get in heap-big trouble), a little nerd-bling never hurt anyone.
'Nerd Bling' 
Since my first day at the con, I have picked up several new terms, and thats getting added to them. Good stuff.
I'm also still laughing at "+2 for boobs", which I have shared with many others. Having seen that phenomena several times in my gaming life, it hit home (and something WotC needs to think about moving forward). I realize you didn't say it (was that Kris the Grey's wife?), but I figure I'd mention another amusing turn-of-phrase I intend to use. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2012 19:09:19 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 20:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I mentioned this in another thread, but I figured I should say it here in your thread: I very much enjoyed our lunch, and am sorry it took nearly two days to realize who you were.
Take it as a compliment - you were so 'professional' (about making sure everyone and everything kept their appointments like herding Ed to the Candlekeep meet-up) that I took you for a (con) handler. While everyone else was acting chaotic and going off on tangents, you seemed to remain focused on task (something I can't imagine any gamer doing at Gencon).
Ergo, it is because of the way you were acting - so professional through all the confusion - that made it take me so long to finally read your name tag, and I am still embarrassed by that. Like I said, I will treasure that lunch with you and the 'James Gang' for a long time to come.
I'm gratified to hear it!
There's actually a reason for my calm demeanor when the cat-herding that is GenCon comes along. I spend all of high school as part of a fairly large youth group that runs conventions and other events for its membership--obviously, they're of smaller size, but knowing where to be and when to be there and the best way to get there and who's supposed to be with you is a survival technique I've had since I was 15. The temptation to stop and drool over the latest game or toy or whatever is still there, to be sure, but I've learned to suppress it in the name of getting where I'm going. At least, for a while.
I should also confess that I make a concerted effort, well before Gen Con hits, to make sure I plan my schedule very carefully. I know what events are going on that interest me, what events interest my friends (I made at least one publisher-editor connection this weekend), and what events Ed's been scheduled for that they never even told him about (although WotC was infinitely better this year than they have been in years past at making sure Ed knew what his schedule was).
Those two elements make keeping my cool pretty easy. Honestly, though, it takes a lot out of me, and usually only lasts through Friday evening or so. By Saturday night, 'composed' is a distant memory...
Btw, I've been pushing "The Brothers Jim" instead of "James Gang," but no one seems to be going for it. I cou;d use the help! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 22:51:23
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At least it sounds better then "the fabulous Baker boys' and the Ericlone Wars.
Okay... I just made that second one up... but their sure are a LOT of Eric(k)s around....  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 04:56:12
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| Were the organizers able to work anything out to get a Candlekeep GenCon pin to our long suffering mods? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 27 Aug 2012 04:56:58 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 10:38:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Were the organizers able to work anything out to get a Candlekeep GenCon pin to our long suffering mods?
They don't have them just yet, but arrangements are being made, as the follow-up communications and post-Gen Con dust begin to settle.
For example, I've been doing last passes on a couple of articles that should hopefully be seeing e-print next month over this weekend, making trivial things like sending awesome pins to folks take a back burner. But soon... |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2012 : 16:29:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Were the organizers able to work anything out to get a Candlekeep GenCon pin to our long suffering mods?
They don't have them just yet, but arrangements are being made, as the follow-up communications and post-Gen Con dust begin to settle.
For example, I've been doing last passes on a couple of articles that should hopefully be seeing e-print next month over this weekend, making trivial things like sending awesome pins to folks take a back burner. But soon...
Yeah, I did notice that when I got mine out last night, after I asked this question, to look at it again....my curiousity to whether the mods were getting theirs seemed to fade slowly away.....it's pretty awesome. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2012 : 17:11:40
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Hey, folks! A couple of article announcements for this month's D&D Insider offerings:
In Dragon Magazine 415, we have "History Check: The Many Deaths of Manshoon," an article dealing with the fates of the clones of the famed and infamous archwizard. Including a few you've never even heard of...
In Dungeon Magazine #206, there's "The Ecology of the Malaugrym," detailing the foul shapechangers and their way of life.
I've been lucky over the last year to get to play with some classic Realms staples (Cormyr, the Old Skull Inn, and now Manshoon and the Malaugrym), so I hope you folks read and enjoy. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 00:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Hey, folks! A couple of article announcements for this month's D&D Insider offerings:
In Dragon Magazine 415, we have "History Check: The Many Deaths of Manshoon," an article dealing with the fates of the clones of the famed and infamous archwizard. Including a few you've never even heard of...
In Dungeon Magazine #206, there's "The Ecology of the Malaugrym," detailing the foul shapechangers and their way of life.
I've been lucky over the last year to get to play with some classic Realms staples (Cormyr, the Old Skull Inn, and now Manshoon and the Malaugrym), so I hope you folks read and enjoy.
SWEET!! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 01:19:05
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| Why do I keep feeling guilty about having killed so many Manshoons? Why is that, Brian? |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 04:55:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Hey, folks! A couple of article announcements for this month's D&D Insider offerings:
In Dragon Magazine 415, we have "History Check: The Many Deaths of Manshoon," an article dealing with the fates of the clones of the famed and infamous archwizard. Including a few you've never even heard of...
In Dungeon Magazine #206, there's "The Ecology of the Malaugrym," detailing the foul shapechangers and their way of life.
I've been lucky over the last year to get to play with some classic Realms staples (Cormyr, the Old Skull Inn, and now Manshoon and the Malaugrym), so I hope you folks read and enjoy.
Okay, now that might be enough to get me to subscribe to the DDI... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 05:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Hey, folks! A couple of article announcements for this month's D&D Insider offerings:
In Dragon Magazine 415, we have "History Check: The Many Deaths of Manshoon," an article dealing with the fates of the clones of the famed and infamous archwizard. Including a few you've never even heard of...
In Dungeon Magazine #206, there's "The Ecology of the Malaugrym," detailing the foul shapechangers and their way of life.
I've been lucky over the last year to get to play with some classic Realms staples (Cormyr, the Old Skull Inn, and now Manshoon and the Malaugrym), so I hope you folks read and enjoy.
Okay, now that might be enough to get me to subscribe to the DDI...
At least for a month? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 10:47:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Why do I keep feeling guilty about having killed so many Manshoons? Why is that, Brian?
No need to feel guilty about that... There's always more Manshoons! He's the gift that keeps on giving! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 12:12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Why do I keep feeling guilty about having killed so many Manshoons? Why is that, Brian?
Not Brain, however some feel guilt about killing ants even when are too many of them *S* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2012 : 06:55:47
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Hello Brian,
Some more Cormyr questions, if I may, inspired by your Crowns and Mantles article:
Do Purple Dragon company badges get passed down from one group to the next, or is each one unique?
If yes, does the badge sometimes confer a reputation (sort of like how, in the Three Musketeers, being a Musketeer is something different than being a member of the Cardinal’s Guards)?
If no, how is each badge created? Are the badges complicated things? Or is there a simple system to making them that depends on where the company is stationed, for example?
Have different badge creating methods been tried and used over time? (This is what I’m hoping is true.) If yes, could you give some examples?
Can company badges be duplicated or re-used over time? Or are company badges something an officer of the Royal Court or true Herald would create and/or ratify (if that’s the right word) before they can be sewn onto a uniform?
Can you tell us about one or two companies of Purple Dragons who are noteworthy, sung about by bards, remembered for an act of valor or for having a certain reputation (for, say, having an almost Paladin-like strict sense of honor; for being rowdy and as much in trouble as a pack of hard-drinking dockside regulars; for being comprised solely of women, all of whom are thought to be the female bastard offspring of Cormyrean nobility; etc.), and what their company badge looked like?
Looking forward to your September articles in Dragon #415 and Dungeon #206 .
Thanks very much in advance for your time and for your willingness to answer our questions. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2012 : 15:42:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Hello Brian,
Hi!quote:
Some more Cormyr questions, if I may, inspired by your Crowns and Mantles article:
You may, indeed, sir!quote:
Do Purple Dragon company badges get passed down from one group to the next, or is each one unique?
I'm not entirely clear on what youre asking. Do you mean, "does each Purple Dragon get his own badge, or does he obtain his badge from a previous member of the same company?" Or something else?
If I'm right about what you mean, each Purple Dragon is assigned an embroidered company badge when he begins service with a given company. It's his to keep, even if he gets reassigned--and some dragons keep a collection of their former company badges. Being stripped of rank comes with a stripping of company honors as well.
Some retiring dragons will pass their company badges to younger soldiers, and soliders killed in battle will sometimes be remembered by their fellows taking up their company badge (note that this is the badge only: a dragon is buried in his tabard, with all his honors, and where possible will be granted a freshly-made rank shield and company badge. The rank shield he wore when he fell goes to his family, sewn onto a spotless white Purple Dragon tabard, onto which have also been sewn or pinned his various honors, dragonstars, and the company badge of the dragon who took his up in remembrance--and did the sewing himself).
quote:
If yes, does the badge sometimes confer a reputation (sort of like how, in the Three Musketeers, being a Musketeer is something different than being a member of the Cardinal’s Guards)?
For the most part, badges are for identification purposes, but of course, certain companies earn certain reputations that last for a generation or three.
Some companies have a reputation for bravery, or skill (at riding, archery, fisticuffs, drinking), or fortitude (when drinking, or enduring wounds), and the badges take on the reputation of the company.
quote:
If no, how is each badge created? Are the badges complicated things? Or is there a simple system to making them that depends on where the company is stationed, for example?
Badges for local guards and watches are simple things: they use the local heraldry for the city or town in which they are stationed (and yes, towns of a certain size, and cities, all have local heraldry). Some companies have badges that indicate their specialties (royal scouts show and arrow in a dragon's clutches--see Dragon #307 for one depiction of that badge), others their region of influence, and still others items from their company folklore.
Currently (see below) badges are either woven as part of a dragon's tabard, or--more often--embroidered as a patch. The Crown uses a small group of craftsfolk for both their rank insignia and their company badges, and provides the base material for all such creations (including means for War Wizards to swiftly determine forgeries). Heraldry tends to be simple, for ease of identification and craftsmanship, but can get complex depending on the age of a company, its prestige, its sphere of responsibility, and whether that company is a true company (marches and fights and trains together), or one that aids other units (like the scouts do).
quote:
Have different badge creating methods been tried and used over time? (This is what I’m hoping is true.) If yes, could you give some examples?
But of course. There have been embroidered badges, metal badges, different placement of badges (left shoulder beneath the rank, right shoulder, breast, sword-arm bracer). Some badges have been embossed or engraved on armor rather than being part of the uniform tabard.
quote:
Can company badges be duplicated or re-used over time? Or are company badges something an officer of the Royal Court or true Herald would create and/or ratify (if that’s the right word) before they can be sewn onto a uniform?
The Heralds are, of course, involved in the blazonry of company badges, to avoid confusion with outland nobles (Crown heralds know better than to come too close to a Cormyrean blazon).
Companies tend to use the same badge until they are wiped out in battle, folded into other units (in which case, their veterans keep a token item on the blazon of the new company), are disbanded, or forcibly retired. A company badge that falls out of use tends not be reused for at least a century, at which point it might be re-used or the company re-formed.
quote:
Can you tell us about one or two companies of Purple Dragons who are noteworthy, sung about by bards, remembered for an act of valor or for having a certain reputation (for, say, having an almost Paladin-like strict sense of honor; for being rowdy and as much in trouble as a pack of hard-drinking dockside regulars; for being comprised solely of women, all of whom are thought to be the female bastard offspring of Cormyrean nobility; etc.), and what their company badge looked like?
I can tell you for certain that all of these exist except the last one: while women are more common in the Cormyrean military than in most others (modern or fantasy) at a rate of about 1 for every 6-8 men (depending on the era and what else is going on), there are no companies comprised solely of women, much less one that is rumored to be made up of bastards of anyone. A Purple Dragon commander would be lambasted by certain traditionalists for putting that many women in one place (an entirely wrong-headed sort of "remember the ladies"), and no officer of Cormyr is stupid enough to provide such a concentrated target (even if true) as a camp of bastard nobles.
That said, here's a company that fits your description:
Around the time of the war with Sembia in the middle of the 15th century of the Dalereckoning, a small but fierce company of footmen known as the Waranvil (War Anvil, emphasis on war, one word, singular), who earned their name and a separate unit (they were part of the Warden's Watch, answering directly to the Warden of the Eastern Marches) by smashing through foes with stout shields, light crossbows, and a preference for blunt weapons--warhammers, maces, morningstars, and flails, in that order. A favored tactic was to pepper their foes with a salvo from their crossbows, charge with shields raised to force their enemies into a more enclosed space, and then smash them with wide swings as they tried to disperse. When they lowered the foes' numbers sufficiently, they would start a game of trying to smash their iron crossbow bolts through the enemy like nails through thin wooden boards.
The badge of the Waranvil was a black anvil (viewed from above) with a silver hammer resting on it. Detailed depictions of the hammer had its striking face bloodied.
The Waranvil was completely wiped out in the Year of Azuth's Woe (1440 DR), after facing wave after wave of Sembian troops near the southern tip of the Vast Swamp.
quote:
Looking forward to your September articles in Dragon #415 and Dungeon #206 .
Me, too!
quote:
Thanks very much in advance for your time and for your willingness to answer our questions.
No problem. Keep 'em coming! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2012 : 19:46:07
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That 100% awesome. Thank you very much.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 21:50:11
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| A very cool quote from a certain Loremaster of Cormyr to start part 2 of Erik's new book.....did you provide said quote? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 14:59:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
A very cool quote from a certain Loremaster of Cormyr to start part 2 of Erik's new book.....did you provide said quote?
Erik suggested the content of the quote and gave me the intial draft. I very lightly massaged it (it's his book, after all), gave my approval (because Garen is "me," after all), and in it went. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 15:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
That 100% awesome. Thank you very much.
No problem. I hope there's something in there you can use.
Note: I didn't check with Ed on any of the above before posting, but I did run it by him after the fact, and he was in full agreement, with nothing to add at the moment (and, I suspect, he's far too busy right now to try, anyway).
So... consider it quasi-official, until we can get that stuff into print! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 16:08:46
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| So, Brian, did you know that there is a quote from Garen Thal on the "Part Two" page of Shadowbane: Eye of Justice? Erik is awesome at tying little bits of lore into his books! |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 16:36:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
A very cool quote from a certain Loremaster of Cormyr to start part 2 of Erik's new book.....did you provide said quote?
Erik suggested the content of the quote and gave me the intial draft. I very lightly massaged it (it's his book, after all), gave my approval (because Garen is "me," after all), and in it went.
Nice chap that Erik is.
It was nice to see your name on it! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 04:43:50
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Couple of quick Cormyr questions -
I know that land-grants are available to persons willing to 'tame' parts of the Stonelands (and Tunlands?), and maybe even a title to go with it - where is that lore located?
Also, how long has that been in effect? Was that something only put forth by Azoun IV, or is this something the crown has been doing for quite some time?
Any other details on this subject would be appreciated as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 16:01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I know that land-grants are available to persons willing to 'tame' parts of the Stonelands (and Tunlands?), and maybe even a title to go with it - where is that lore located?
It appears in a few places, but the clearest and most useful description is in the 3E FRCS book.quote:
Also, how long has that been in effect? Was that something only put forth by Azoun IV, or is this something the crown has been doing for quite some time?
There's no specific canon source on this, but as far as I've worked it out, Azoun IV would have formally extended the offer after Gondegal's uprising (1352 DR), but likely before the Horde Crusade (1360 DR). Whether one placed it before or after the Time of Troubles is up to the individual DM, but it's really only popularized after the Horde and Azoun's fall.
Azoun is not the first of Cormyr's monarchs to extend such an offer, but he was the first to formalize it--in certain royal pronouncements, he would lay out the specific requirements (castle, retinue, length of defense, area cleared, etc.) for earning the title. These changed over time, as attempts were made and inevitably failed.
One correction, though: it's not (exactly) a land grant that the Baron of the Stonelands receives. It's a title. Cormyr isn't feudal, so nobles of the realm don't gain absolute right to territory, to then parcel out. The would-be Baron would hold absolute right to his castle, and to the lands within an average bowshot from its outer wall (standing on the ground, not from it's battlements). Beyond that, citizens would have the right to settle the necessary town, shops, farms, mills, and other signs of civilization, without paying rent or tax to the Baron--who would also be serving as the king's lord of the area, and so be responsible for collecting taxes on the Crown's behalf. Such tax would mostly go towards paying for Purple Dragons and other expenses of defense of the area, but are not considered the Baron's income. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 19:24:38
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How are nobles then able to make money? 
The system isn't precisely the same as our own Feudal system, is it?
Also, I needed this info for the Loremaster project (sponsored by Matt James), but I needed it to apply earlier in the timeline. I assume from what you say this should be possible? That such offers have been extended in the past?
Thank You for the quick response - most helpful. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Sep 2012 19:36:51 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 20:46:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
How are nobles then able make money?
Nobles make money through a number of different ways. Many come from families that were merchants before they were nobles, and maintain their shipping, importing, and trading interests (albeit through intermediaries now, to keep noble hands clean). Others hold extensive lands, and rent parcels of those lands out, while farming others (again, with hired hands). Still others just have hoarded wealth, while others still collect tidy salaries from Court titles.
Some titles do indeed come with a grant of land, but those are extremely few and come with such tiny parcels as to be almost insignificant. Most titles that have any value on granting come with a payment of a specific sum (dependent on the rank and the will of the monarch--and usually paid with gems); that sum is almost always enough for the noble to pay for a small dwelling in Suzail and a larger estate upcountry.
What titles don't come with are the power to create lower nobles, to accept fealty from lower nobles and assign them within one's own lands, to tax directly or for one's own benefit, to raise armies (although they can maintain personal guards and small retinues, depending on rank, location, and countless other factors), or try commoners or lesser nobles for crimes.
quote:
The system isn't precisely the same as our own Feudal system, is it?
It isn't remotely the same. Cormyr is a centralized monarchy. There's nothing feudal about it.
Tenant farmers on a particular noble's land are no more beholden to that noble than they would be a rich commoner who owned the land: if they choose to stop renting, they can up and leave.
quote:
Also, I needed this info for the Loremaster project (sponsored by Matt James), but I needed it to apply earlier in the timeline. I assume from what you say this should be possible? That such offers have been extended in the past?
They have, indeed!
quote:
Thank You for the quick response - most helpful.
I should probably point out, for you and anyone else reading and seeking more information, that some of this revelatory information about the nobility of Cormyr appears in "Crowns and Mantles: The Ranks and Titles of Cormyr" in Dragon #407. You know, in case anyone was wondering... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2012 : 08:31:05
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Interesting.
So nobles in Cormyr are considered nobles so long as one family member holds a title? In Great Britain only the title-holder has noble rank - all other family members are considered 'commoners' (even royals).
Why wouldn't one family just keep having kids, so as to out number everyone else? Or is it because its an absolute monarchy, they hold no real power regardless?
Come to think of it... what the heck is the purpose of the nobility in Cormyr? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Sep 2012 08:33:52 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2012 : 14:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interesting.
So nobles in Cormyr are considered nobles so long as one family member holds a title? In Great Britain only the title-holder has noble rank - all other family members are considered 'commoners' (even royals).
Not exactly.
One is noble if one has been granted a title or is descended from someone with a title. Unless stripped, or divested, or expatriated, or otherwise removed from one's right to inherit. It's not always true (some titles don't get passed down, and baronets, lowly as they are don't always give titles to all their offspring.
quote:
Why wouldn't one family just keep having kids, so as to out number everyone else? Or is it because its an absolute monarchy, they hold no real power regardless?
It's because they hold no real power, and the spreading thin of the family line leads to decadence and a weakening of the family name (see also: Cormaeril). Also, the farther one gets from the main branch, the lesser the 'automatic' title one possesses.
quote:
Come to think of it... what the heck is the purpose of the nobility in Cormyr?
Now, now. That would be telling, wouldn't it? |
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