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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 16:37:53
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hey Eytan - you got that job yet?
-- George Krashos
Haha. The wheels of Hasbro take a lot longer than that to spin. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 16:39:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Hopefully Eytan, along with Brian (and dare I hope George?) will be able to save the 4e Realms from the mediocracey that is currently plaguing it.
They need good talent like those guys to keep us interested.
I'm working on some realmslore as we speak, partnered up with our friend Mr. de Bie. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 17:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I'm working on some realmslore as we speak, partnered up with our friend Mr. de Bie.
Oh snap. 
And I wish you good fortune, Eytan. IMO WotC would be blessed to have you. Or Brian James, or Brian Cortijo, or George Krashos, or . . . (list goes on!)
Any of you flying into Seattle for interviews or the like, hit me up. We'll go drinking--for either congrats or consolation!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 18:22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I'm working on some realmslore as we speak, partnered up with our friend Mr. de Bie.
Oh snap.
And I wish you good fortune, Eytan. IMO WotC would be blessed to have you. Or Brian James, or Brian Cortijo, or George Krashos, or . . . (list goes on!)
Any of you flying into Seattle for interviews or the like, hit me up. We'll go drinking--for either congrats or consolation!
Cheers
If I do fly in, I'll be happy to meet up like last time. Odds are they won't have a decision by the time I would fly out, however. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 19:10:39
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| Actual Realmslore, or that other stuff? |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 19:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
If I do fly in, I'll be happy to meet up like last time. Odds are they won't have a decision by the time I would fly out, however.
Like that's ever stopped a good hang-out. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 21:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Actual Realmslore, or that other stuff?
Be nice, Uzzy!
I've never been one to be nice when it meant not being honest. Honesty is more important than ego maintenance, and it is the best policy, after all. Being nice when it's not warranted just encourages the same behaviours to continue.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 29 Oct 2008 21:33:33 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 00:15:14
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| At some point though it becomes tiresome and just plain rude. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 14:29:28
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I wanted to say one thing, Sage, and then I'll keep my peace.
Honesty is the best policy, I agree. Dislike the new Realms all you like, and feel free to talk our ears off about it all you like.
But when it comes to personal attacks, then it's just flatly inappropriate.
Particularly when it's on folks like Eytan, who is--as he has been his entire career--trying his damnedest to be true to the Realms and produce real quality stuff, and is one of the best friends old and new Realmsians alike have got.
I wish we all could just stop ranting and start working toward positive change. That's what folks like Eytan Bernstein, Brian James, George Krashos, Brian Cortijo, etc., etc., are doing. Why not let them do it?
Why not look at this position as an opportunity and an augury of hope, rather than just an excuse to flame WotC?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 15:28:24
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| And for what it's worth, this job position wasn't even specifically about the Realms (as far as I recall--the ad seems to have been taken down). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 18:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wish we all could just stop ranting and start working toward positive change.
Could I please ask what you mean by positive change? |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 19:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wish we all could just stop ranting and start working toward positive change.
How can we work toward positive change when WotC has completely dis-empowered their customers. They ask for feedback, but then they do not act on that feedback. That creates the illusion that they are empowering their customers without actually empowering them. Even Ed, who is the creator of the Realms, was ignored when he cautioned against the Spellplague. I think that most of the ranting is a form of mourning the Realms. It feels like it is lost to us and there is nothing we can do about it. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 19:21:44
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I know this sounds off-topic, but we're talking about what a new designer can and should be doing, so it's at least in the ballpark.
quote:
Originally posted by arry
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wish we all could just stop ranting and start working toward positive change.
Could I please ask what you mean by positive change?
Exactly what it sounds like.
There are things we don't like about the new edition? Fine--we come together as a group to develop them into something we like. We lobby for changes from the designers-that-be--we offer concrete suggestions about how things can be developed, or what intrigues can be shaped around this or that, to deepen and broaden the setting. Then we can only hope that enough cogent, reasonable, non-ranting requests will work. It's a lot easier to say what you *don't* want than what you *do*--and a lot less helpful.
The core designers aren't giving us what we want, despite our respectful requests? Fine--we support freelancers and aspiring designers who will, rather than pan their work as "not real realmslore." We make requests to freelance authors and designers to consider putting stuff we want in their work.
There are things that we want but probably won't get, no matter what we do? Fine--we talk constructively about how to integrate independent concepts into campaigns, and leave it up to our fellow Realms gamers to choose what they want or don't. It's a game world, for gods' sakes--play your own game.
Just slinging around the hate helps no one--not to mention (as Brian put it) it's tiresome and rude.
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
How can we work toward positive change when WotC has completely dis-empowered their customers. They ask for feedback, but then they do not act on that feedback. That creates the illusion that they are empowering their customers without actually empowering them.
I appreciate that you feel disempowered. I can't speak for WotC about whether they listen to suggestions or not, or how long it takes to incorporate the suggestions they take.
I *do* know that there are a LOT of people here who have demonstrated their affinity for feedback and put in things that were suggested. I've listed them before in my posts.
Ranting, on the other hand, is only going to make matters worse. People will not listen to you if you sling rage at them.
And mourning can be respectful.
quote:
I think that most of the ranting is a form of mourning the Realms. It feels like it is lost to us and there is nothing we can do about it.
I appreciate that you're mourning, and I sympathize that you feel powerless.
It may feel that way--that you have no power--but that isn't true. As I said, there are a number of writers here who have proven their willingness and success in incorporating your suggestions. And it will take time to push these things through--it's just a matter of how long you're willing to wait.
That's it for me and this scroll. Please PM me or come over to my scroll in the Chamber, if anyone wants to continue this discussion.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 30 Oct 2008 19:31:04 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 19:58:42
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| HawkinstheDM: Is there a commercial fantasy or sf franchise where you feel that you as a member of the audience really are "empowered" and really do have a significant say in what happens? |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 20:28:14
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The job position has nothing specific to do with the Realms. The eventual hiree (and I know a lot of good people applying for this) might work on the Realms, but I think that would depend on that designers interests and proclivities. I don't have much experience with Eberron, but I do have quite a bit with the Realms. Ari Marmell hasn't done much with the Realms, but has done a ton for Eberron. Others might be more into Greyhawk, Dragonlance, or not into settings at all. So whoever gets hired will be utilized in whatever way makes most sense.
Notice that I sidestepped the quagmire above :) |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 21:32:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
HawkinstheDM: Is there a commercial fantasy or sf franchise where you feel that you as a member of the audience really are "empowered" and really do have a significant say in what happens?
Response in an email.
On the actual OP, I really do hope one of the talented scribes here who have applied receives this position. And, yes, I do think that while we should feel free to mourn, we should also do it respectively. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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chance87
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 22:28:02
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That may be - in part - a source of the angst (or whathaveyou) many of us feel regarding the changes to the Realms.
The nature of the game leads players and DMs to feel as though they are an active participant in the Realms, especially when you take into account that we get to discuss books and game data with the many talented authors and designers, so we also get a lot of the rationale behind some of the design decisions, as well as the ability to provide feedback directly to those same individuals. Every time Ed has said "It's your world, too" (paraphrasing), we buy into that.
No other franchise that I am aware of provides that level of accessiblity; not Star Trek, not Star Wars, neither the Marvel or DC lines.
A lot of the FR changes are coming from way out in left field (or it seems that way to some of us), and the only thing we're hearing now is, "Oh, yeah, a lot of people didn't like the way it was." Seriously, people asked for floating islands above Waterdeep?
My personal feeling is that the design changes were part of an attempt to target FR to a specific audience; one that I also feel that I am not a part of. I'm not refusing to buy any WotC products; what I am doing is refusing to pre-order each and every FR product or tie-in the way I once did. Any new FR releases - game or novel - will be carefully reviewed in order to see how well it piques my interest, or suits my gaming needs. Given the state of the global economy, this only makes sense, anyway.
I have yet to see enough material, either in online excerpts or in-store perusal, to entice me to buy either the FRCG or the FRPG. And if I'm not buying those, I certainly have no reason to purchase the 4E MM, PHB, or DMG. That may change, but at this point, I'm quite skeptical.
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
HawkinstheDM: Is there a commercial fantasy or sf franchise where you feel that you as a member of the audience really are "empowered" and really do have a significant say in what happens?
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 00:18:33
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I have indicated this before, but from a book I recently read called absolute honesty, an acronym called PAL was utilized.
The author theorized that there are only 3 healthy ways to deal with change.
Tactfully disagree with the changes and work towards Positive change (basically make the best of what you get) - Accept the changes and move forward - or Leave, because life is just too short to rant about things you have no real control over. That led to controlling your sphere of influence, but I will leave that for another time.
anyway, my 2 coppers worth. I hope the person hired does indeed get to work in the realms and work towards positive change.
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Edited by - scererar on 31 Oct 2008 00:19:40 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 02:16:59
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You know, sauce is very important.
With the right one, a master chef can convince people that a rancid piece of meat is not only edible, but even tastey.
But underneath it's still just rancid meat.
Fortunately, you CK Scribes/Designers are sauce.
(I'm trying not to be negative anymore, but the new 'Mystra's Murder' lore I just heard has me on a curmudgeon binge ATM). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 06:15:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
HawkinstheDM: Is there a commercial fantasy or sf franchise where you feel that you as a member of the audience really are "empowered" and really do have a significant say in what happens?
Not Hawkins, but since you posted this on the boards, I will answer: yes. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 11:13:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
HawkinstheDM: Is there a commercial fantasy or sf franchise where you feel that you as a member of the audience really are "empowered" and really do have a significant say in what happens?
I would say "Star Trek" at least has a huge and active fanbase. They live with input from the fans.
That isnt really the same as D&D though, because D&D is first and foremost a game which requires the active participation of the players. This makes it different from any interaction a Trekkie had on the series or the movies. The concept of providing rules for "cops and robbers" is likewise totally different from GI Joe or Transformers, other products from Hasbro. So you actually need the "goodwill" of the people playing it AND you also cant afford to loose as many. For GI Joe and Transformers the customers need to watch TV and buy the dolls and thats it. For D&D the people need to learn the rules and be happy with the way they are enabled to "play" their chosen character. That is a much more complex thing than simply getting a doll and playacting cops and robbers without any rules. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 13:16:31
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| PDK: If you don't mind me asking, which franchise is it that gives you that feeling? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 16:24:42
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He's probably talking about Golarion (they ask their customers what they'd like to see next).
As for Star Trek - if the fans had as much say as you think, we wouldn't have had all those continuity errors in Enterprise. Without Rodenberry stearing the ship, the whole thing fell apart. 
I can think of a couple of other Sci-Fi based series that relied heavily on fan-feedback (For instance, Larry Niven wrote his second Ringworld novel because REAL scientists were interested in his design but found problems with some of the physics). Off-hand, the only fantasy series I know of with at limited fan-interaction was Harry Potter (as the novels progressed, she did change some of her plans based on fan-feedback). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2008 16:28:22 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 21:30:26
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Dang these off-topic posts!
I was hoping that Eytan was announcing that he'd got the job.
Hang in there Eytan!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2008 : 21:35:29
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| HAS anyone been announced as the winner of this new position yet? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2008 : 03:32:24
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| Haha. It takes a lot longer for this process to play out. They are still conducting initial interviews. If I have news to share, you'll know as soon as appropriate. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2008 : 21:47:04
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They'll be working on 5e by the time this done!
Sorry, couldn't resist. 
I'm looking forward to hearing who they hire as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Topic |
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WOTC RPG Associtate Game Designer position
