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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 07:23:14
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Hello again folks.
Firstly for some odd reason i cant seem to find anything on time are hours called hours in faerun?
and does anyone know why felbar isint on the 4e map?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 07:49:04
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With re: to your first question, heed the words of Ed:-
"Time in the Realms is NEVER measured in “hours” or “minutes.” Short-term waits can be measured in “breaths” but in cities, temples, and monasteries, the equivalent of hours are so many “bells” (yes, a bell is rung) or “candles” (which do visibly burn down) from or to a measurable event, such as dawn/daybreak, dusk/nightfall, or noon (in the Realms, noon is “highsun”). Example: The tumult began three bells before nightfall.
“Midnight” is permissible usage, and “deepnight” is its ‘more Realmsian’ synonym.
When timing is important, Realms writers should work a reference to how many bells are struck in a day (“It was the task of Brother Blackhands to strike half of the twelve bells between dusk and dawn, with Sister Elphrana tolling the bells between—and another pair of the Devout handled the twelve bells of the bright hours.”) into the narrative to make it clear that a “bell” IS “an hour.”
In Tashluta and the Tashalar, Tharsult, and in some ports nearby, a “bell” (an hour) is called a “darmeth,” with the plural (hours) being “darmar.” As in: “It’ll be at least three darmar before he gets back.” or: “But that could take DARMAR, hrast it!” This usage seems to be spreading south.
In like manner, days in the realms are never referred to as “Monday,” “Tuesday,” or any real-world ‘weekday’ name. Most folk in the Realms refer to a particular day as thus far from “the first of Mirtul” or “the last of Eleint” or one of the annual festival days, or if they must be precise, will say something like “the first day of the first tenday of Ches.” If they were writing this date or speaking of it formally, it would become “1st Ches.”
Where we would say “a moment or two,” most humans in the Realms say “a breath or two”—and what we would call a minute is “a goodly breath or three.”
Dwarves tend to call the same span of time (actually, anything up to about three minutes) “but a little while,” whereas a halfling would call the same span of time “a long song.” To a halfling, a minute is “a tune,” and 10 minutes is “three long songs.” Most halflings tend to speak of longer time periods, within a day, in terms of how much the sun has progressed."
...
Having said that, I've noticed that for some time, Realms sources have actually utilised the categories of hours and minutes and "other tacked-on our-world language" bits. It's inconsistent for the most part -- especially with respect to what Ed said above.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 11:15:11
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| thank you my dear sage i thought it was bells but felt wrong. |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 16:53:54
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Isn't the usage of alternative naming conventions easier once you've used them in game? The hardest part about using naming alternatives is remembering to use them, and using them often enough where they eventually become household terms used when the game is running. In terms of roleplaying, terms like hours and minutes are so ingrained that it makes it hard to break away from using them when the issue comes up because people then aren't sure what you're talking about.
One has to weigh whether the usage of term alternatives adds enough to the enjoyment of the game vs. the rather large learning curve players will have to overcome in order to be familiar knowing what NPCs mean when they say "bells". |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 18:08:59
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| Yes, like every other aspect of using a richly rendered world rather than a thin fictionalized Earth to place dungeons in. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 18:55:52
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In my Realms novels, I don't often ascribe a speciic time to something, but then I'll make the attempt to use bells, and then only in a context where it's clear that 1 bell = 1 hour. If I say a "quarter bell," I think that's close enough to the phrase a "quarter hour" to be clear on what I mean.
Times of day are usually sufficient: dawn, early/late morning, highsun (pretty clearly noon), early dusk, dusk, twilight, evening (eve), night, midnight.
An *interval* of time can usually be within a series of breaths, a moment, a short pause, a number of heartbeats, or a 30-count (or more). The x-count measure tends to be pretty clear.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 20:58:14
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We appreciate both your adherence to prevoius lore, and your participation here, Erik. 
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
and does anyone know why felbar isint on the 4e map?
Ummm... why are MOST of the new locales (created specifically for 4e) also missing from the map?
Bottom line - the map ain't so hot.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 21:58:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We appreciate both your adherence to prevoius lore, and your participation here, Erik.
quote:
Originally posted by Stout Heart
and does anyone know why felbar isint on the 4e map?
Ummm... why are MOST of the new locales (created specifically for 4e) also missing from the map?
Bottom line - the map ain't so hot.
I was just making sure it wasnt something like everyone that lived died and they forgot to say something. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:18:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
In my Realms novels, I don't often ascribe a speciic time to something, but then I'll make the attempt to use bells, and then only in a context where it's clear that 1 bell = 1 hour. If I say a "quarter bell," I think that's close enough to the phrase a "quarter hour" to be clear on what I mean.
Indeed. That was one of the aspects of your writing that I was very appreciative for. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 21:11:10
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| The map is what it is--but as for the dwarven citadels, in the absence of new lore coming to light later, they've all survived to the present day. See the Luruar entry at pp.146-47 of the FRCG. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
765 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2008 : 08:55:15
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Edit: Fixed tags.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
With re: to your first question, heed the words of Ed:-
"Time in the Realms is NEVER measured in “hours” or “minutes.” Short-term waits can be measured in “breaths” but in cities, temples, and monasteries, the equivalent of hours are so many “bells” (yes, a bell is rung) or “candles” (which do visibly burn down) from or to a measurable event, such as dawn/daybreak, dusk/nightfall, or noon (in the Realms, noon is “highsun”). Example: The tumult began three bells before nightfall.
“Midnight” is permissible usage, and “deepnight” is its ‘more Realmsian’ synonym."
Additionally, I have come accross the following in the Realms novels I have read:
midnight – “middark” (most of the Sembia books and also the House of Serpents trilogy By Lisa Smedman)
pre-dawn – “darkmorning” (the House of Serpents trilogy By Lisa Smedman)
post-dusk – “evening” (the House of Serpents trilogy By Lisa Smedman)
There is also a term for the period after dawn—but pre-highsun—from the City of Splendors novel by Ed and Elaine if I recall (or it could have been from Blackstaff), but sadly I cannot recall what it was. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Edited by - Kyrene on 01 Oct 2008 09:08:18 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2008 : 23:18:17
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It's roughly like this:
dawn/sunrise/daybreak [5–7 a.m.]
morning/morn [7–11 a.m.]
highsun (noon) [11 a.m.–1 p.m.]
afternoon [1–5 p.m.]
dusk/sunset/nightfall [5–7 p.m.]
evening/even [7–11 p.m.]
deepnight/midnight [11 p.m.–1 a.m.]
moondark/night’s heart [1–3 a.m.]
night’s end [3–5 a.m.]
though I'm unsure of the authenticity of the last two.
There are also these less widespread poetic usages found in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical:
foredawn [5 a.m.]
mornbright [8 a.m.]
midmorn [10 a.m.]
high morn [11 a.m.]
waterclock [2 p.m.]
'the time of summer sunset' [5 p.m.]
twilight [6 p.m.]
candleglass time [9 p.m.] |
Edited by - Faraer on 02 Oct 2008 23:18:45 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 01:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
It's roughly like this:
dawn/sunrise/daybreak [5–7 a.m.]
morning/morn [7–11 a.m.]
highsun (noon) [11 a.m.–1 p.m.]
afternoon [1–5 p.m.]
dusk/sunset/nightfall [5–7 p.m.]
evening/even [7–11 p.m.]
deepnight/midnight [11 p.m.–1 a.m.]
moondark/night’s heart [1–3 a.m.]
night’s end [3–5 a.m.]
though I'm unsure of the authenticity of the last two.
They sound pretty authentic to me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Two questions
