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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 13:29:51
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Our own esteemed sage Ed of the Greenwood is adamant that places, people or events in the Realms should not have real world analogues. His reasoning on the matter, that it leads players into unwarranted assumptions and disturbs their immersion in the world, is sound.
Instead, GMs should strive to present each Realms culture from the ground up, so to speak, without that kind of convenient shorthand. Describe the language, people, customs and aesthetic and not resort to adjectives such as 'Slavic' or 'Germanic'.
The problem I have, however, is that no Realmslore supplement I have is comprehensive enough to include the sort of detail I'd like in my campaigns. I have only the vaguest notion of how a Sharran, Vaasan or a Damaran typically looks, for example, and the often contradictory artwork merely excarberates the problem. I often have no idea at all how iconic Vaasan architecture differs from iconic Chondathan building styles.
How does a knowledgable student of the Realms stumble out of an unfamiliar gate, study the houses around him and know at a glance whether he's in a settlement of ethnic Damarans with major Chondathan influences (a Vast city, perhaps) or whether he's in a Tethyrian settlement without much in the way of Calishite influence (Iriebor, mayhaps)? For that matter, what characteristics does he expect to note in the people?
In our real world, we have an astonishing wealth of knowledge, accurate or not, about other cultures. We can, mostly, give a short capsule description of the 'typical' behaviour and appearance of dozens of other lands, whether we've been there or not. In Faerun, however, I'm at loss at how to distinguish between many of the major cultural groups, let alone the smaller subgroups.
Another thing is accents. I don't dress up while I play, I hardly ever act out scenes and my players are lucky if I whip together a prop or two, so accents and speech patterns are pretty much it, as far as distinguishing between NPCs goes. And I'm not linguist enough to adopt a fictional accent. By Oghma, I can barely adopt real world ones and that only in the most broad and caricatured form!
I can give most ethnic Vaasans a Russian (Vaasa itself) or Balkan (Moonsea) accent, Damarans an Eastern European one, Chondathans (at least in Chondath itself and traditionalists from Sembia, i.e. where their native language hasn't been mixed as much with other influences) a vaguely Italian one, upper class Cormyreans a lazy Eton drawl (mixed with a few 'goodsirs', 'miladies' and 'forsooths'), Impilturans a slight German note and so on and so forth. It seems to amuse my players and it also gives hints of where someone is from and, consequently, with whom he might conceivably be affiliated (paranoia is a wonderful thing  ).
If I knew more about how Realms-folk sounded, I could perhaps move slightly away from those explicit real world portrayal, but as far as I know, existing Realmslore is woefully poor in linguistics lore (despite Tom Costa's excellent article on the subject).
So, dear fellow scribes, I beseech you. How do your NPCs from the following regions look and sound? What are their distinguishing characteristics, habits, tastes or other tells? How does someone know they're from that region and not some other one?
I realise that regions are not uniform, neither in the Realms nor the real world, but I'm asking for the popular stereotypes. Like it or not, for example, Nordic folk in our world are likely to be tall, blonde and blue-eyed, or at least far more likely than many other folk. By a similar token, it must be possible to say the same about many folk in the Realms.
And, perhaps most of all, how do I present NPCs from these lands to my players in a distinct and entertaining manner?
Aglarond: ?
Altumbel: ?
Amn: I've always looked at them as a mix of Spain, with their Moorish influences and New World ambitions, and of the Netherlands, with their powerful trading culture and lack of martial power to match. I still haven't decided how they talk, though, but most likely in a vaguely Portugese accent.
Anauroch: The Bedouins here are a real world transplant and therefore sound like their real counterparts.
Calimshan: Very much 1001 Nights Baghdad in my campaigns, I'm afraid. Some Ottoman Turk influences, though, but I'm not linguist enough to feign a Turkish accent that sounds manifestedly different from my faux-Arabic one.
Chessenta: Very much Ancient Greece, I'm afraid.
Chult: The land of Edgar Rice Burroughs and lost tribes of noble savages, I guess.
Cormyr: While I try to keep Cormyr distinct from real world influences, I find that many similarities to Merry Old England of myth sneak in. This manifests, among other things, in the Eton accent of nobles and a hint of Scottish highlands in the foothills of the Storm Horns and Thunder Peaks.
The Dalelands: If the Dalesfolk have an accent at all, I usually find it's a dialect from some country shire from England.
Damara: Consciously or not, many Polish-Lithuanian influences have crept into my Damara. I base this on the nomenclature in the FRCS, descriptions of the houses seen in The Year of Rogue Dragons and the relative status of it as less wild and northerly than Vaasa, but north of Impiltur and less stable.
Dambrath: ?
The Dragon Coast: A cultural melting pot of Tethyrians and Chondathans, with little or no regional dialect to call its own. A Dragon Coast man is as likely to speak perfect Calant-dialect as he is to speak Chondathan with a broad Cormyrean accent. Most likely, his accent is so mixed that it's unrecognisable as any specific one (except, conveivably, as Dragon Coast patois). Come to think of it, the Dragon Coast might well sound a bit New York-like.
The Golden Water: ?
The Great Dale: I'm wondering what I'll do with this. On one hand, the people are ethnically related to the Dalesfolk, but on the other, they're situated in an exotic locale. I wonder if they'd be Germano-Celtic or perhaps, by now, Gallic.
The Great Glacier: The Ulutiun are very Inuit-like and the Sossrim I've made somewhat Samoyed/Nenets in culture and language.
Halruaa: Not a clue.
The Hordelands: Mongols, I guess.
Impiltur: Impiltur reminds me of the Holy Roman Empire. The upper parts of it have accent that are remniscient of German, but the lower parts, particularly Lyrabar itself, is more like Procampur in that their speech sounds more French.
The Lake of Steam: Very eclectic mix of cultures here. I guess the closest would be Moorish Spain, but with strong Shaaran influences.
Lapaliiya: I'm thinking perhaps the mix of Shoon, Chult and Shaar might have created something like Brazil in looks and sound, even though the culture is obviously different.
Lantan: Here, I'm lost.
The Moonsea: A bit like the Balkans, aye? Especially if my Vaasans speak with a Russian accent and wear furs.
The Moonshae Isles: Breton more than modern Irish or Scots. With a hint of Hibernia, though.
Mulhorand: Egypt.
Narfell: Tartars, I'm guessing.
The Nelanther Isles: Very mixed, of course, but a bit Carribean in character. Locals there might be jungle tribes or might have joined with pirates.
The North: Scandinavian.
Nimbral: ?
Rashemen: The 'other' Russia, that is, the non-European, non-Imperial part of it.
The Ride: Here I'm looking for inspiration.
Samarach: ?
Sembia: Sembia, is, of course, Sembia, but I've drawn some inspiration from Italian-American immigrants, both in attitudes towards the 'old country' (Chondath) and in the importance of family over law or personal desire.
The Shaar: From what I can tell, nomenclature (and, therefore, probably language and at least some of the culture) is African, but the people look somewhat like stereotypical 'Red Indians' or alternatively, Turkic tribes. Confusing and I'm not decided on how to portray them.
Silverymoon: Ethnically mostly Scandinavian, but the standard of education is such that the 'typical' accent is probably close to RP. 
The Sword Coast: The mix on the Sword Coast means that American accents wouldn't seem out of place. After all, both places are formed by successive waves of immigration from very different people.
Tashalar: With their Yuan-Ti heritage, uniquely Realmsian, I guess. Don't quite know how they'd talk.
Tethyr: Again, somewhat post-Moorish Spain, with knights in the El Cid tradition. The landed nobility are very much like the Dons. The tribes of the hills are Talfiric, obviously, with some influence on the language. Although I can't imagine a dialect combining Spanish (proto-) and Gaelic, the historical Celtiberians had no such trouble.
Tharsult: ?
Thay: Uniquely Realmsian, of course, but sound somewhat Turkish (if I could get the accent right).
Thesk: With Thayvian, Tuigan and Silk Road influences, a bit Bulgarian, though more mixed.
Thindol: ?
Turmish: The combination of looks and culture among the Turami isn't visibly real world derived, but I've snuck in some Indian influences in Turmish.
Unther: I've much Persian influence there.
Uthgardt Tribesfolk:
Vaasa: Russians.
The Vast: The lower Vast (Procampur, primarily) I have a bit Gallic/French in character and the upper is a bit like Dalmatia.
The Vilhon Reach: Strong Italian influences in the Blade Kingdoms and Chondath, with Sespech and other outlying regions displaying Shaaran influences (whatever those will turn out to be).
Waterdeep: Another cultural melting pot, but in my campaigns, often resembles London.
The Western Heartlands: Baseline 'normal' people, with neither accents nor strange customs.
The Wizards' Reach: ?
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Shottglazz
Acolyte
Canada
49 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 14:22:28
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| Wow. Just wow. You've put a LOT of work into your Realms campaign...if I could mimic half of those dialects, my players would be estatic... |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, Take my land, Take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me." |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 14:30:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Shottglazz
Wow. Just wow. You've put a LOT of work into your Realms campaign...if I could mimic half of those dialects, my players would be estatic...
I said I tried, not that my accents would make any speech coach I've heard of happy. 
Actually, if I had the time and money, I'd probably like to go to a speech coach. I'm far more adept with the written word than the spoken (in English, at least) and that bothers me when I roleplay. I can't improvise speech well enough and I can't portray different characters, except, possibly, as caricatured 'foreigners'. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 14:53:41
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| This is slightly off your original post, but regarding NPCs, here's what I do. I find photographs of famous (or semi-famous) actors in some kind of period or fantasy costume, and then "cast" my NPCs from those photos. I print out 5"x7" photos labeled with the NPC's name and hold them up or prop them up in front of my DM's screen whenever the PCs are interacting with that person. And I do my best to do an imitation of that particular celebrity when they're speaking. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 14:54:22
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| PS "My" Waterdeep is a fantasy world Seattle! |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 15:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I'm far more adept with the written word than the spoken (in English, at least) and that bothers me when I roleplay.
This problem happens to me as well sometimes. Some days, I can speak very fluently, and other times I stumble repeatedly on my own words. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 04:01:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I'm far more adept with the written word than the spoken (in English, at least) and that bothers me when I roleplay.
This problem happens to me as well sometimes. Some days, I can speak very fluently, and other times I stumble repeatedly on my own words.
In my case, it's due to having learnt English mainly from books. I've a decent working knowledge of vocabulary, grammar and syntax; but I have problems with accents and pronounciation.
I'll just have to live in England for a year or two, so I can at least pick up a tolerable RP fascimile. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2008 : 06:59:21
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I happen to be pretty good at doing 'funny voices', which I think is a HUGE plus for me as a DM. It started when I was a kid, where I'd do all the cartoon characters for my friends (my Yogi Bear is spot-on).
I may not be the best mechanical DM in town, but my games are entertaining as hell.
I'm glad to see that people still put a lot of work into the background of their FR games - its what seperates FR from the pack. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 01:51:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
The problem I have, however, is that no Realmslore supplement I have is comprehensive enough to include the sort of detail I'd like in my campaigns. I have only the vaguest notion of how a Sharran, Vaasan or a Damaran typically looks, for example, and the often contradictory artwork merely excarberates the problem.
While I agree with Ed (and many hardcore Realms fans) that the setting should be its own unique place in the universe, you are absolutely correct... there's just not enough information to put together a cohesive and believable backdrop for characters and locations alike. So, despite what some people say, I absolutely do relate real world cultures to FR regions. In a pinch, its much easier to give characters from Cormyr an british accent than it is to invent a completely new one and then try to remember it from week to week or over extended period of not playing.
I don't think it breaks immersion at all to have fantasy cultures have elements of the real world overlain as a means to help enrich the players' experience... I think it would be far more immersion breaking to not be descriptive enough because you lack enough information to give to players or to invent stuff to fill in the blanks only to have it change the next time because you forgot a detail or two in how you presented it.
Where I draw the line is not turning the fantasy settings into wholesale copies of the real world culture. Cormyr is still Cormyr and has plenty of campaign details that set it apart from England even if I choose to have the people there speak and act like the English.
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
This is slightly off your original post, but regarding NPCs, here's what I do. I find photographs of famous (or semi-famous) actors in some kind of period or fantasy costume, and then "cast" my NPCs from those photos. I print out 5"x7" photos labeled with the NPC's name and hold them up or prop them up in front of my DM's screen whenever the PCs are interacting with that person. And I do my best to do an imitation of that particular celebrity when they're speaking.
I do the same thing with the abundance of fantasy art throughout the web. One of my favorite resources is Renderosity.com, and I've collected thousands of images (cropping them down to one character to a pic in those that have more than one), and then tag the images with basic info that pops out of my imagination when I see them... sometimes a name, or maybe a class(es) and alignment, or even just basic profession and/or where I want them to be located/from. When the mood strikes me, I'll pull out books and flesh out the characters with stat blocks and a basic background. If I'm feeling especially motivated, I'll write a more in depth story. I have many NPCs like this that I haven't even used yet. I just love making characters. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 14:24:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
In a pinch, its much easier to give characters from Cormyr an british accent than it is to invent a completely new one and then try to remember it from week to week or over extended period of not playing.
Well, there's no rule saying NPCs must have accents. *shrug* |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 14:39:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Nerfed2Hell
In a pinch, its much easier to give characters from Cormyr an british accent than it is to invent a completely new one and then try to remember it from week to week or over extended period of not playing.
Well, there's no rule saying NPCs must have accents. *shrug*
True enough.
I'm just not actor enough to convincingly differentiate hundreds of NPCs merely by means of tone, inflection and vocabulary. I try to use all of these, of course, but often enough, ham-fisted accents are the only thing that I can manage reliably.  |
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Kosta the Lich
Acolyte
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 16:18:01
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Instead of accents why not employ social dynamics of the real world cultures. People from all over the world have different habits and customs that could be much easier to bring up than trying to impersonating an accent.
For example: Borat kisses conservative Anglo-Saxon men on cheeks. In Easter Europe and Central Asia this is permissible but in the West not so much. Why not have a Rashemi berseker kissing a Waterdavian Harper and make it into a funny situation.
Or different cultures may have different dietary habits and a meal given to a PC or NPC may cause a scandal.
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Minsc and Boo stand ready to polish my boots. |
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Kosta the Lich
Acolyte
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 16:20:34
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For Icelander:
For the success of our hopeless cause? You know Russian? |
Minsc and Boo stand ready to polish my boots. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 13:01:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Kosta the Lich
Instead of accents why not employ social dynamics of the real world cultures. People from all over the world have different habits and customs that could be much easier to bring up than trying to impersonating an accent.
For example: Borat kisses conservative Anglo-Saxon men on cheeks. In Easter Europe and Central Asia this is permissible but in the West not so much. Why not have a Rashemi berseker kissing a Waterdavian Harper and make it into a funny situation.
Yes, but Borat kisses conservative Anglo-Saxon men on cheeks AND talks funny. People of foreign lands should sound foreign... at least a little bit. How you choose to convey this is up to you, but I like talking with funny accents. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 13:06:50
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| For what its worth, players in my game are also used to accents for other races, not just humans of different cultures... and attempt to emulate those when playing characters, too. For example, dwarves talk like Jean Claud van Damme, and its fun. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
Edited by - Nerfed2Hell on 23 Sep 2008 13:07:18 |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 12:02:55
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Everything in fiction is ultimately derivative of something in the real world. In my opinion, there's no need for D&D authors to be defensive about this.
In music, for example, every distinct "new" melody contains pieces of something else the composer has heard somewhere before.
In fiction there are always parallels and inspirations from 'real life' that (usually unconsciously) percolate upward and inform what seems to be an entirely fresh, unique idea. Personally, I think it is ultimately narcissism--a conceit--to deny this (both to others and/or oneself).
Like, relax about this, it's okay. |
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Real World Influences or Not?
