| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 02:12:23
|
I need some specs on Shade Enclave....considering that in my game, my PCs might actually bring it down out of the sky...
Two issues:
1) How far up above the ground is the Enclave?
2) What are the size specs? End to end, etc?
Should they actually succeed, I'm trying to figure how far they'd have to go to escape any kind of damage (sand fallout, windstorms, etc) as well as how to get out from under it, how much damage it would do to the surface of the Anauroch, and...prolly some other stuff.
Any thoughts?
|
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 02:28:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Any thoughts?
I don't think I can be much help with the technical specifications you're looking for, but for help with the color commentary on something like that coming down, you could do worse than to read about the fate of Moon's Spawn in Steven Erikson's House of Chains. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
 |
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 03:18:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
I need some specs on Shade Enclave....considering that in my game, my PCs might actually bring it down out of the sky...
Two issues:
1) How far up above the ground is the Enclave?
2) What are the size specs? End to end, etc?
Should they actually succeed, I'm trying to figure how far they'd have to go to escape any kind of damage (sand fallout, windstorms, etc) as well as how to get out from under it, how much damage it would do to the surface of the Anauroch, and...prolly some other stuff.
Any thoughts?
RotAW trilogy would probably be the best bet for information pertaining to the actual size and placement of Shade. |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 22:59:36
|
What I'm really looking for are gaming specs...(bein lazy I guess)...
I guess my best bet would be to pick an area of similar size and whatnot and add in a few formulae.
Does anybody have and guesses on how far up the Enclave is at its lowest point? For example, what spells could cause a PC to be able to reach it from the ground (save for wish or something similar)? |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 00:55:22
|
| It'd probably be worthwhile looking over the entries for the various Enclaves in the Netheril boxed set [available as a free PDF download at WotC] to get some idea of their heights and dimensions and use those as a basis for formulating your own ideas for the Shade Enclave. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 29 Aug 2008 00:56:55 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 03:30:44
|
| I looked through Netheril: Empire of Magic and couldn't find much more than generic "they chopped off the top of a mountain and built a city on it". There might be even more detail in the book, but I haven't found it yet. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 04:07:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I looked through Netheril: Empire of Magic and couldn't find much more than generic "they chopped off the top of a mountain and built a city on it". There might be even more detail in the book, but I haven't found it yet.
I did the same as well. I also ran a few keyword searches and came up with minimal information. |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 04:39:54
|
| I can't even find any notes on the population statistics of the city. Time to check with the designers/authors. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 06:13:13
|
| Any thoughts on how to run 'em down? |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 06:20:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Any thoughts on how to run 'em down?
Attempt what Karsus did  |
|
|
|
Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 09:53:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
1) How far up above the ground is the Enclave?
2) What are the size specs? End to end, etc?
Should they actually succeed, I'm trying to figure how far they'd have to go to escape any kind of damage (sand fallout, windstorms, etc) as well as how to get out from under it, how much damage it would do to the surface of the Anauroch, and...prolly some other stuff.
I dont think these things have ever been specified.
1. As high as you want to ... above the desert it is pretty hot during the day I would say and coming from the plane of Shadows the people of Shade wont like that. Thus I would say it should be not-too-low. Not being accessible
2. Take an average size city, but remember that its the "top of a mountain". It should have a few (300-500 ?) hundred metres in diameter due to the mountain thing, but remember that the mountain goes "down" roughly half of that. This also gives you an idea on how high it needs to fly. So if the mountain goes down 200m it might be a good idea to fly at least 1000m high (and that takes a while to fly to).
If this mountain comes crashing down it will result in a major catastrophe probably due to the impact and the dustcloud. Probably not as severe as a meteor crashing on our world (they had diameters of tens of metres I think) and changing the climate all over for years, but a local and temporary problem might arise ... like the radioactive cloud from Tchernobyl from 1996. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 13:28:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
If this mountain comes crashing down it will result in a major catastrophe probably due to the impact and the dustcloud. Probably not as severe as a meteor crashing on our world (they had diameters of tens of metres I think) and changing the climate all over for years, but a local and temporary problem might arise ... like the radioactive cloud from Tchernobyl from 1996.
I can't agree... You mention meteors; but the damage they cause is because of speed, not mass. Yes, the mass is a factor, but it's the tremendous speed that makes them so dangerous.
I think the impact of a flying enclave wouldn't do a lot more than create a very large crater and a new pile of rubble. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 13:56:46
|
| Y'know, now I'm remembering an early Dragonlance module that had a similar flying city--though it might have been too small for comparison. It had a Keith Parkinson cover. Anyway, it seems like there were a couple of different game mechanics in there for getting up on the thing that maybe you could adapt if you can find a copy. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 14:40:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Y'know, now I'm remembering an early Dragonlance module that had a similar flying city--though it might have been too small for comparison. It had a Keith Parkinson cover. Anyway, it seems like there were a couple of different game mechanics in there for getting up on the thing that maybe you could adapt if you can find a copy.
Dragginglance had flying citadels -- castles magically ripped from the ground and sent aloft. Those were just castle-sized. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 15:35:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Any thoughts on how to run 'em down?
The Chosen attempted to bring Shade down by disrupting the Mythallar that holds the city aloft.
So, methinks it requires some epic-level abilities.
Good luck!  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 17:47:25
|
Oh, well I meant to say "how do we get a hold of the aforementioned designers", but I've put the PCs down a path for destruction, that's for sure.
The situation: the battle with the phaerimm greatly weakened the Enclave's mythallar, and Shade had to resort to using circle magic to keep the city afloat and running. That is until the Karsus Stone appeared within the inverted mountaintop itself (a gift to the Tanthuls from Shar - see? she swallowed it for a reason...), powering the mythallar and actually improving the Enclave's defenses to boot. One of the party's favored NPCs, tired of the bullying that the Enclave has begun with other kingdoms has discovered ancient volcanic tunnels that might be used to reach the Stone. He believed that unleashing scores of phaerimm upon the Stone might sap it of enough of its strength that Hadrhune himself might feel the sting and be willing to negotiate. Of course, Shadowvar appeared within the city and murdered him when they discovered his actions, unwittingly earning the ire of the PCs and in particular, his apprentice Amara, now a powerful mage and a constant thorn in Shar's side as well.
As a result, the PCs are bent on revenge and finding a way to destroy the Stone permanently and, after Hadrhune's threat that he would "raze Quevarr (their home) to the ground", make the Enclave topple over completely.
Hoo boy.
They're roughly a lvl 18 party. So this will be a tough slog. All Hadrhune wants is the "Tear of Karsus" a little sliver of the Karsus Stone which had broken off just before its fall into Shar's mouth (courtesy of a dagger toss by Mask himself) and which currently resides in the hand of one of the PCs (resulting in her transformation to a shade herself). So, if things go to hell, she can always just offer up her hand and Hadrhune MIGHT let'm all go free and leave Quevarr alone. Probably not though. He's a Tanthul for Mask's sake...
BUT, if the Enclave does topple, I have no clue how they're going to get out and away before it hits the ground. I've got a plan for how they'll destroy the Stone, how they'll contact Hadrhune (Telamont notwithstanding) and a few other contingencies, but they're 18th level....I figure I'll leave the escape plan to them...
The party was more or less assembled by a manipulative Hadrhune in his quest to recover the Tear, so this will be the big climactic battle of this campaign. Hopefully things will turn out...
The problem could be summed up like this: My PCs are like the Bush administration. All offense with no exit strategy!!  |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
Edited by - Arion Elenim on 29 Aug 2008 17:51:32 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 17:59:49
|
The only thing I could offer is that once the Mythallar is down and the city starts falling, teleportation magic should work once more.
Either that or 'rescue' some docile veserabs (sp? those worm thingys they fly on... Y'know, the rip-offs from LotR?) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 18:48:42
|
Well, I've toyed with the idea of deus-ex machina'ing them out of harm's way with a shadow dragon that has often found the PCs amusing, but I think mebbe no.
Also, the PC shade Amara has that "teleport everybody and everything to the Shadow Plane" ability, but I had an NPC point out that the Shades could chase them there just as easily AND anything on that plane will probably be furious with them for bringing down the Karsus Stone (though whether that's true, I don't know...).
Hmm. I just feel like my best plan as a DM is to let them do whatever they think is best and try to be one step ahead. Could somebody maybe take a guess as to how long it might take for the Enclave to hit the ground? |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 20:33:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Could somebody maybe take a guess as to how long it might take for the Enclave to hit the ground?
It would depend on the altitude. I'd say, just to have a rough figure, that it would fall 2000 feet every minute. That's prolly slow, but I don't remember my physics enough to work it out, and you really only need some convenient number. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 21:04:08
|
Acceleration of any object is 32 feet per second per second. In other words, the first second, they accelerate 32 feet per second (their velocity). The second second they reach 64 feet per second, the third 96 feet/second and so on. Drag of air passing over the object slows it down, which is why a feather (larger surface area) falls slower than a round ball bearing of the same weight.
I believe they are a few thousand feet in the air (Mt Everest, in contrast is over 29,000 feet tall). Let's say they are about 3000 feet up (twice the height of the Empire State Building), then they would probably hit the ground in about 13-15 seconds or just over 2 rounds. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 21:06:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the impact of a flying enclave wouldn't do a lot more than create a very large crater and a new pile of rubble.
I would say it would result in a dustcloud, which can be seen from miles away (like a big erupting volcano). I was assuming that the Shade was above the desert when it crashed ... crashing on a mountain or into a swamp would be much less "dramatic". |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 21:57:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the impact of a flying enclave wouldn't do a lot more than create a very large crater and a new pile of rubble.
I would say it would result in a dustcloud, which can be seen from miles away (like a big erupting volcano). I was assuming that the Shade was above the desert when it crashed ... crashing on a mountain or into a swamp would be much less "dramatic".
Yeah, that, too. I just don't see any lasting effects beyond the big hole and the pile of rock occupying it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 05:53:37
|
this is interesting information on velocity. For a D&D game, I would probably just make something up and call it good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity |
Edited by - scererar on 30 Aug 2008 05:54:36 |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 05:08:34
|
| Good call, gents. Thanks a bunch. Hopefully it won't come up....I feel so guilty...being the DM who destroyed the Enclave (course, I doubt I'm the only one...) :D |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 15:30:15
|
Yeah, I think a lot of DM's are taking a divergent course on the FR history.
I know that I'm currently starting to develop a 4th part to the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch books to prevent the Spellplague from happening. I think that I'll set in in Waterdeep, mostly because of the Godstair... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 14:12:47
|
I think I'll make a module about this party's adventure and the fall of Shade. I'll call it: "Realms of Really Hard to Explain Problems with Bringing Down one of the Most Beloved Villain Sources in the History of....uhm....the Realms."
:D |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 17:00:19
|
| Heh, I think the Shades have been overused since their return. The Realms of 2E may have focused mostly on the Zhents, but we did see some Twisted Rune, Knights of the Shield, Cult of the Dragon, and even Iron Throne activities. But since the Shades came back, it's like no other bad guys even compare... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 17:21:04
|
| True... We have always used a lot of time dealing with "unimportant" vilains, who somehow secretly rose to power, so not to expend the realy bad ass'es But now in our campaing, the city is in our scopes! |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2008 : 17:44:46
|
Yeah, I just can't seem to accept the return of Netheirl in the Realms. I like it in the past, and thats where it stays in my games.
Amazing how a concept invented by another game company (SPI) for another game system entirely (Dragonquest) became such a major factor in Ed's Realms.
Bringing back Imaskar was just rubbing our noses in it.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 04:50:02
|
(queue infomercial music)
Now you too can be a Netherese Aracanist and raise your own city above the clouds. Simply visit this link (here) and have your favorite character cast Raise Land with a high Arcana check. Soon, your own personal fortress will have an incredible view and you'll no longer be bothered by those pesky peasants with pitchforks!
Order now!
(queue infomercial 'out' music and flash 800 number with address in Richmond, VA) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
3.5 Shade Enclave Help
