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Marek
Seeker
Italy
52 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 12:31:31
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As in the subject, I'm wondering if there's a specific reason why red wizards picked this color. Can anybody help?
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 12:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Marek
As in the subject, I'm wondering if there's a specific reason why red wizards picked this color. Can anybody help?
I'm not completely sure why the Red Wizards should choose red as their preferred colour. I can't recall a Lore based reason.
However, it could be linked to the real world experience that resulted from the Spanish import of cochineal. The book by Amy Butler Greenfield called "A Perfect Red" is a good overview of this area. Once the vivid crimsons produced by cochineal were known they became very fashionable and also indicated status because they were expensive.
It could be that originally the Red Wizards as a ruling and wealthy elite chose red robes because the dye stuffs needed for them are expensive and demonstrated their wealth and inherent power.
That's my suggestion anyway. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 22 Aug 2008 12:42:35 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 13:06:32
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Because they didn't seem fearsome enough during their short stint as the Pink Wizards.  |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 13:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Because they didn't seem fearsome enough during their short stint as the Pink Wizards.
*Tries to banish the image of five Pink wizards singing "In the Navy*
*Fails* |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Marek
Seeker
Italy
52 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 14:19:10
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Oh no, here too
On the shard online where we play they like to call us the Pink Wizards of Ghay... |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 15:41:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Marek
Oh no, here too
On the shard online where we play they like to call us the Pink Wizards of Ghay...
Not that there is anything wrong with that... |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 15:53:23
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| Could be something to do with their veneration of Kossuth? |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Marek
Seeker
Italy
52 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:08:32
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I think their veneration of Kossuth started as a major thing at a later time.
Of course nothing wrong with the sexual orientation issue but I meant they used it as a funny derogatory way of pulling our leg. No homophobia where I play, sorry if it sounded like a serious thing.
Kinda annoying when you're trying to act like the powerful and scary evil Red Wizard of Thay |
Edited by - Marek on 22 Aug 2008 16:38:55 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:22:47
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From the "Interview with the Buvaar" by Jolololol the Sixty-Three-and-a-Half-Percent-Wit (published posthumously).
YB: When you are trying to break into a very mature market - and you will certainly agree that the Evil Wizard Cabal market is a casebook case of very mature market, where you have to compete not just on a global scale, or an interplanetary scale, but on an Interplanar scale, you have to be ready. This meant the creation of a good product, a strong brand, and very strict cost control, both adapted to our business model.
J 63 1/2%: That is to say, evil wizardry?
YB: Exactly! I knew immediately that we had a strong product, especially since the copyright on the spells of Thayd had expired, which allowed us to integrate all this in what amounts to an open-source model, with constant value-added enhancement of our products, with a very reduced overhead. Of course, the best product is useless without a proper brand.
J 63 1/2%: The Red Robes...
YB: Absolutely - I had market studies conducted by the TaNaR'ri opinion polling bureau - and may I just mention how pleased I was with their service? A 100% return on questionnaires...
J 63 1/2%: Meaning?
YB: Meaning that whenever TaNaR'ri asks questions, they always get answers. But I digress. A poll conducted among a chaotic - excuse, random - sample of adventurers showed that your target audience associates evil wizards with the color black. As a young start-up, you simply cannot afford not to stand out. So we decided from day one that black was not going to be our color. I decided to get all the staff together for a brainstorm - no mind flayers allowed, of course...
J 63 1/2%: [Gulp]
YW:I believe in encouraging people to think outside the coffin...
J 63 1/2%: Don't you mean "box"?
YB: No... coffin. Why do you ask?
J 63 1/2%: No reason...
YB: I strongly believe in cutting across disciplines. Fireballs are not the sole province of evokers, nightmares should not be limited to enchanters, and, let's be honest, what's the point in restricting demon lore to conjurers? So, branding was seen as to important a subject to be left to the marketing department. I wanted everybody involved, to ensure full ownership of our brand and one hundred and ten percent commitment to our mission statement, you see?
J 63 1/2%: Yeeesss...
YB: So I had to ask - "what is our mission, what is the brand that says, this is what we are all about, this is what makes us different"? At one point, we planned on going for white tights... Like I said, it was a no-holds barred, nothing-is-too-stupid-to-be-discussed idea-fest. But as we progressed, we all began to see the negative externalities, you see?
J 63 1/2%: Well...
YB: Tights would have been novel, of course, but the Nevron twins - Saatchi and Saaatchi - argued, successfully, that it would dilute our message, after all, we were still wizards, and like it or not, nothing says "I am a wizard", like wearing that special robe. So tights were out. White robes might have been a good idea - it says, we are wizards, watch us wear robes. Sure, white robes are normally associated with good wizards, but that was no objection to us.
J 63 1/2%:Because it lets you stand out...
YB: Yes! Yes, indeed! Of course, we had to make sure that our actions would leave no doubt as to our alignment, but like I said, all of us were one hundred and twenty percent committed to the mission statement. But then - and the Red Wizards of Thay owe him undying gratitute for that - little Szass said, "but won't white stain too easily?"
J 63 1/2%: Little Szass...
YB: (nods enthusiastically) Tam! Yes, Szass Tam! You see now what I mean by involving everybody in the mission? Out of the mouth of apprentices... He'd barely animated his first corpse, but already he was seeing the bigger picture! I knew, even back then, that Sazzie would go far in the organisation! A high staining ratio would increase our overhead too much, you see? A lot of downtime when the slaves put them in the laundry! Need for massive redundant vestimentary stocks! A stroke of genius, it was, truly, to have spotted that (pardon the pun). So that got the ball rolling, because what is the main cause of stains in an Evil Wizard's business plan?
J 63 1/2%: Errrhh...
YB: Blood, of course, and blood is...
J 63 1/2%: Red?
YB: Exactly! We are wizard, we have robes! The Red neutralises the negative image that a stained robe brings and, here's the best of all..
J 63 1/2%: Pray, do tell!
YB: A due diligence check with the Sigil registry showed that there were no - that is, zero - Evil Wizard Cabals that used red as their primary, or even their secondary color! It's enough to make you howl for the joy of it!
J 63 1/2%: No, no, not the...
YB: (Unintelligible, though bone chilling shriek). Sorry. I just got carried away. Mr. Journalist? Oh, dear. Why do they always die on me?
[recording ends]
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Edited by - Thauramarth on 22 Aug 2008 16:56:50 |
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Marek
Seeker
Italy
52 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:33:45
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Hilarious! thanks for posting it hahaha |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:41:54
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Agreed. Mighty hilarious!
Is that your own wit, Thaumarath? |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 18:41:44
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Here is the real answer....
Beacause they are red wizards.
If they were the Blue Wizards they would wear blue, No?
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 19:23:44
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Thauramarth - that's wonderful. Thanks for that.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
If they were the Blue Wizards they would wear blue, No?
If they were Blue Wizards wouldn't they wander off to the East in the company of a White Wizard and end up getting lost there? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:02:01
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Maybe because red is "the royal color" and they want to be easily recognized as rulers?
Red is also a "signal color" and if you are identifying yourself clearly as a member it adds a little to your groups "intimidation factor" if it is generally known to have "no sense of humor". |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:08:30
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No sense of humor?
Man, you don't know Szass Tam the way I do then... That guy can par-TAY! He's like Carrot Top, except not as many muscles. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Is that your own wit, Thaumarath?
Not all of it.
Just 63 1/2 %. |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Is that your own wit, Thaumarath?
Not all of it.
Just 63 1/2 %.
Right on, Jolololo! LOL! |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 20:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Maybe because red is "the royal color" and they want to be easily recognized as rulers?
I thought purple was the royal colour? And as a person who quotes the Centauri perhaps you should know the episode "Born to the Purple"?  |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 21:51:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Maybe because red is "the royal color" and they want to be easily recognized as rulers?
I thought purple was the royal colour? And as a person who quotes the Centauri perhaps you should know the episode "Born to the Purple"?
Well I had THIS (clicky on Leadership) in mind. And our german "purpur" is not purple ... its red. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 03:14:28
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Seriously, Ed (who created Thay and, yes, the Red Wizards) told me the name and color of robes arose long ago, when the Red Wizards were just a junior "order" (clique) of wizards in Thay, trying to distinguish themselves from more powerful, long-established, and better-known "circles" and cabals of mages.
But don't stop the more fanciful suggestions, please. I've been shuttling them along to Ed, and he's been enjoying them.
love to all,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 04:57:18
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Ahhhh...
So it was like 'belts' in martial arts?
Wasn't there a 'Black Cabal' somwhere in the Old Empires? Or was it a White Cabal? Or both....
Now you're going to get me to look through all my old books again...
Thank You. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Aug 2008 04:57:36 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 05:10:16
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| Alas, the fabled Plaid Wizards were finished as a cabal one day when on of their member cast Hypnotic Pattern and had some dire consequences and promptly confused every member of their own group into forgetting what they were going to do Tuesday after tea. (Which, ironically enough was to have some delicious sandwiches and studying a long-lost tome on 'How to Conquer the Realms in 12 Easy Steps'.) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 05:20:25
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Lets not forget the polka-dot Wizards, who's raiment of choice was said to give off an aura of Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter....
Of course, thats probably just what they kept telling themselves. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 09:04:32
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| might have something to do with ancient mulohaund. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 11:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Well I had THIS (clicky on Leadership) in mind. And our german "purpur" is not purple ... its red.
Maybe purple is the imperial colour and red is for royalty.
Here's a Purple Emperor just to be rather random.
I do recall that Murex purple was used by the upper echelons of Roman society. I don't doubt that given my earlier comments about cochineal that red became a colour associated with royalty also.
This site is useful. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 14:20:20
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| Actually, they used to be the Cerise Wizards. But no one knew what color cerise was, so they changed it to Red. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 14:57:07
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My apologies.
Purple became popular by the nobility because it was cheaper than the blue dyes used by the highest royalty. Until France got to Mexico and found the cochineal bug and were able to produce a red dye, which became more expensive than the blues and purples (brown and green were cheap).
Of course, this all fell out of the market in the 1800's when synthetic dyes began to be manufactured.
With magic being so strong in the Realms, perhaps the red used to create the robes is "more potent" magically? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 15:56:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
With magic being so strong in the Realms, perhaps the red used to create the robes is "more potent" magically?
There's an idea. Or maybe just some form of supersition or placebo effect, like the WH40K Orkz would say. "Red wunz go fasta!" |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 13:58:27
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the confusion is that the phoenician, murex, royal purple looks closer to darker red than purple, it was very expensive in the ancient world. Later the medieval nobility wore it emphasize the Roman ancestry.
red also produces unsettling, intimidating psychological effect which fits with Red Wizard nature (that why the fast-food restaurants all have red in their logos to hurry people out) |
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Topic |
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Why red wizards wear red?
