| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 18:18:03
|
I think it is clear to all of us that the Volo Guide books took a wonderfully detailed look at some of our favorite locales in the Realms. While riding back from GENCON this week I read aloud some of the passages from Volo's Guide to Waterdeep to my friend who was driving. We were both astonished to find that I had purchased such a fantastic book at a discount price in the GENCON Exhibit hall. I myself love the Volo's Guide series and wanted to see more in the future, but the Realms as we know it have changed.
A few days later, today to be exact, I was mowing the lawn and I thought to myself, "Why not write more Volo's Guide books?" Ed showed an interest in them at the Secrets of the Forgotten Realms Seminar. I can already hear the Wizards team complaining about costs and derailing the forward going momentum of the 4th edition Realms. Fear not. We as scribes have many options in suggesting courses of action to the FR Wizards team. I would like to point these out by referencing a Dragonlance book called Lost Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home. This book has a fantastic amount of lore for the Dragonlance world. Is there any book like this for the Realms? I can't recall any. There is so much history to the Realms, and Brian James helped Wizards realize the long timeline of the Realms in book format. A must buy for any scribe.
But the Realms has so much more and we have plenty of writers that have helped shape the Realms that Ed Greenwood would only have to oversee a project that details the Old Realms (1st, 2nd, and 3rd editions). In a format much like the Volo's Guides we could have detailed short narratives of events like the Harper Schism. Not a whole book but a page of juicy lore! A page is all I ask. I myself want a 200-300 page book detailing old events that we can know everything about now, for the most part.  There is so much lore here that we scribes could even make an unofficial lore compilation if need be. My idea is far from fully shaped I know but we could propose it to Wizards. Nothing new really needs to be written. We only want something that anchors the old Realms in such a way that new players that do advance deeply into the Realms can go back and at least play or read the old Realms. We don't need full NPC stats, only a short one liner about mechanic oriented stuff and a few paragraphs on the NPC. Put the DM's to work on the rest! We don't need a lot of fancy art or maps, we already have those. I think it would be nice to have someone like Schend or Cunningham work on this with Ed and maybe a few scribes here even to make a book that will be enjoyed by all Realms fans.
4th edition does not mean the death of the past Realms, it only means the future. We who like a little history want a compiled book of glimpses of the past. Not a timeline as Brian already put that together, just the stories of the Realms.
Thank you if you read my post. I am more than open to further ideas. ::crosses fingers::
(**Sorry about the Dragonlance reference. It was only an exmaple as to what I was saying about having extra lore about cooking, songs, narratives, etc.)
|
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 18:30:52
|
I don't want to sound negative. I truly don't. In fact, I hope that we could get something like this published.
But the general undercurrent coming from WotC that they don't want to deal with any old lore makes it feel like this will not happen. Maybe Candlekeep can become a third party publisher? Like how Catalyst Labs publishes Classic Battletech while WizKids does MechWarrior Clik? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
 |
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 18:38:35
|
The closest equivalent to Lost Leaves in FR would be the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms, which provided much good lore in story-format.
I have heard that the biggest problem with producing limited-appeal sourcebooks is the cost of the physical books themselves.
So I was thinking, why can't they try an experiment? Why can't they let Ed write a book similar to Last leaves or Player's Guide as a Paperback? It would have minimal illustrations (perhaps just a map at the start of each chapter), and the rest would be a combination Novel/Volo's Guide. I think if anyone could pull that off, Ed can.
I understand Dragonalnce tried something like this awhile back, wherein D&D statistics were included at the end of the novels for gamers - that is a fantastic idea, and I think it would work very well in FR.
Each book could be told about a different subject, from a different person's point-of-view (Ed is a true master at that). Book 1 would be told by Volo, of course (or perhaps one of his decendents at this point), and give us rundown of Inns, Taverns, and Festhalls across the Realms that he has discovered in his travels, Book 2 could be told by an archaeologist, who studies the ruins of past empires, like Jhaamdath, Imaskar, and Nethril. Book 3 could be told by an Elven Historian, Book 4 by a Sellsword at the end of his career, discussing some of the Martial schools and fighting tactics he's run across in his life, Book 5 a Mage (Harpell?) who has delved into arcane secrets...
Really, the list is endless. I think a series of sourcebooks disguised and appearing as novels would help bring the world (back) to life, and be a huge hit with the fans, while keeping costs down to that of a mere paperback. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 20 Aug 2008 18:39:50 |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 18:43:52
|
After comments that Volo Guides are not gaming products I have a strong feeling that there is little chance of there coming anything like this from WotC.
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 19:40:51
|
They actually SAID THAT? 
CLUELESS... absolutely clueess...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 19:42:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They actually SAID THAT?
CLUELESS... absolutely clueess...
I seem to remember seeing something like that at the WotC boards sometime ago, but don't quote me on it. |
|
|
|
ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 20:06:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
After comments that Volo Guides are not gaming products I have a strong feeling that there is little chance of there coming anything like this from WotC.
Which is silly, since I get more use out of Volo's guides than I do out of the 3E FRCS. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36896 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 20:06:40
|
| There is a conception that unless something has lots of crunch, it's not a gaming product. The Grand History of the Realms was not considered a game product, even though it was entirely about and drawn from a game setting! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 20:32:48
|
It would be nice if we could just do our own [i/]Volo's Guide to[/i] netbooks.
The 4E folks could start off in Abeir stuff that's new, but I'd like guides to stuff like Mulhorand and Unther, Halruaa, or Chult or Chessenta.
Copyright's not gonna allow it, though. This is why we have the Compendium? |
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 21:24:28
|
I would love to just get an ounce of the efforts of past and present realms writers. Of course Greenwood could do it all if only the WotC didn't have him writing stuff they intend to cut most of out of his books. :(
I still think if we pose a plausible scenario anything is possible. Maybe some one can start some chatter and excitement with me on the Wizards forums? Trying is the least we could do. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 00:28:06
|
Why not make a genuine sales pitch to Wizards? Lets put the weight of the Candlekeep community behind it and pitch the idea. The products could be PDF only and get the stamp of approval from WotC.
This would be some really great project.
I'm up to make the maps :)
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 00:57:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I understand Dragonalnce tried something like this awhile back, wherein D&D statistics were included at the end of the novels for gamers - that is a fantastic idea, and I think it would work very well in FR.
This has actually been a feature of some DL novels for a very long time, back into the days of 2e even, when we had a complete work-up of the Dark Knights of Takhasis in The Second Generation. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 21 Aug 2008 01:00:56 |
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 01:31:21
|
| I think a genuine sales pitch would be best enhanced by having specific information as examples of lore to cover, format ideas (Volo's Guide, etc.), options for distribution (PDF, small sourcebooks, novels), and ideas on how to pitch the idea. There is hope for this I think. If we approach it from a rational angle, Wizards would have to take a chance on the revenue it could produce. I would guarantee satisfaction to all who bought the resource, and that I would buy at least two copies. :) |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 01:33:06
|
| Do you think Ed would be interested in hearing about this? Or should we hold off until we refine the idea some more. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 01:38:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Patrakis
Why not make a genuine sales pitch to Wizards? Lets put the weight of the Candlekeep community behind it and pitch the idea. The products could be PDF only and get the stamp of approval from WotC.
This would be some really great project.
I think it's worth the effort for the experience, but I don't think WotC will bite. Said project seems highly antithetical to their stated goals for 4E, perhaps even overlapping with the Living FR.
By Oghma, I do love searchable PDFs!!! |
|
|
|
Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 02:27:41
|
| Someone should offer up a Volo's style article for DDI. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
|
|
|
monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 03:12:12
|
Right on, Sanishiver!
WOTC's webpage detailing the Secrets of the Realm event at GenCon mentions they're open to 4E article submissions for DDI.
Perhaps Volo's Guide to Risen Sarifal? the Spellscarred? Imperial Cormyr? I don't know enough 4E to go forward with scribing it, but I'd read the article! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 03:21:54
|
How about Volo's Guide to the Music of the Realms?
Oh, how I'd loved to be the Realms scribe lucky enough to write that one.   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 21 Aug 2008 03:23:20 |
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 04:42:31
|
| The more I think about my above referenced idea the more I realize that it is an overlapping book that ties together the past so that those that play 4th edition FR (new players) will likely get into the old Realms and want to play some of that too with their new fangled rules. Not perfect but my justification so far for this book. This is to be a comfy Volo-like book of the Realms. It will make those of us that know the Realms smile warmly immediately whereas someone new will say, "I have never heard of this story before. I need to find a the novel that might cover this new FR character that I have discovered named Mirt." Or so on. This could even be a vehicle for selling books that have not been given their fair shake by the wider public as the scribes here at Candlekeep get more than enough preview beforehand in most cases. So Books that haven't sold so well might go like wild fire as soon as someone realizes that there is a series of books in the FR campaign setting detailing a bunch of Dragons going nuts on the world, rampaging about. What Newbie FR/D&D fan wouldn't like that... or Drizzt. ;) |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 17:34:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There is a conception that unless something has lots of crunch, it's not a gaming product. The Grand History of the Realms was not considered a game product, even though it was entirely about and drawn from a game setting!
Unbelievable, but that just goes to show exactly what the mindset over in Renton really is. Crunch has taken over. It's all that matters apparently. They've lost their imaginations in favor of math and mechanics.  |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 17:50:39
|
My Opinion:
I don't think anything 'helpful' to the FR IP would even be considered at this point.
I don't want to elaborate, but suffice it to say that I think certain people wanted 4e FR to fail. The designers working on it were all talented people, and I simply cannot reconcile that fact with the tome they produced. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 23:16:03
|
| I have posted this idea on the wizards boards and would love if you feel strong enough about this, despite reservations of wizards possibly not wanting to work on such a project, if you would voice that you would buy such a product then we can get the chatter going. These things on't happen over night. We have to keep up the pressure to impose our will of satisfaction in "our" Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting no matter what edition you prefer. Just brave the wizards forum long enough to post your constructive thoughts. We want to offer options and possibilities. This Lore book would be a victory for Ed and Candlekeep. Just think about it! |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 23:33:19
|
Maybe I am missing the point, but I thought the Candlekeep Compendium was for this sort of fan generated work?
I am sure Alaundo would love to see a series of articles on an area/theme etc to run over several issues, in fact we might even get a single issue dedicated to (for instance) The Lore of Harrowdale (or whatever project people want to see) including its history over the last 200 years, a selection of Burghers and their dreams/schemes, the trade cabals shipping out of its harbour, the lost treasures left behind and an update sbout the spellplague years dovetailing into what is included in the FRCG etc.
Now if we can get scribes working on projects for the compendium, we might then see it blossom into a more expansive format in the future. I just think that a focussed view is needed on a small area first, to see what folks can write and how committed they are to the cause of expanding it further. Writing quality lore is very tough (at least for us mere mortals!) and I would hate to see a half-bashed attempt on something grand fall apart when a smaller focussed project delivers the goods and informs all involved of what is required to take it to the next level.
Just my thoughts
Damian
ps of course the tricky thing will be to decide on what and where the new Volo guide will be about as we all have our favourites |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 23:45:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I have posted this idea on the wizards boards and would love if you feel strong enough about this, despite reservations of wizards possibly not wanting to work on such a project, if you would voice that you would buy such a product then we can get the chatter going. These things on't happen over night. We have to keep up the pressure to impose our will of satisfaction in "our" Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting no matter what edition you prefer. Just brave the wizards forum long enough to post your constructive thoughts. We want to offer options and possibilities. This Lore book would be a victory for Ed and Candlekeep. Just think about it!
I fully support you and wish you well on this. But I can no longer go to the Wizards boards. There is just too much back-patting going on there where people are VERY insulting to those that don't like what has been published. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 01:11:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Maybe I am missing the point, but I thought the Candlekeep Compendium was for this sort of fan generated work?
In a way, it is. Though, that shouldn't prevent scribes from generating other separate pieces of Realms work that can be included on the Candlekeep website, like most of KnightErrantJR's articles for example. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 22 Aug 2008 01:12:59 |
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 12:29:40
|
| This idea is totally flopping on the Wizards community boards. I hate to give up so soon but it seems that people only care about their characters. We (Candlekeep Scribes) are the few that actually care about the Realms. The Wizards web board posters are immature and fickle. If they can complain about something they will. Ungrateful comes to mind when thinking about how into 4E some of those people are but they still bash it just to have something to post. 4th edition for DM planning, 3.5 edition for character creation, and 2nd edition for Realmslore. That is just my opinion. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 13:52:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
We (Candlekeep Scribes) are the few that actually care about the Realms.
Well, us and the tens of thousands of people who read the novels and play the games (tabletop and computer) and never post on message boards, of course. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
|
|
|
Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 15:51:21
|
| Of course! "That goes without saying." (Young Frankenstein quote, couldn't help myself.) |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
|
|
|
Rafe Hasbrouck
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 23:18:07
|
| I want to thank Wandering Mage for reading Volo's Guide to Waterdeep to me as we drove back, it was definately an excellent collection. I enjoyed reading all the wonderful stories. I would like to see something like he mentioned come together someday, they were terrific books. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 18:11:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
After comments that Volo Guides are not gaming products I have a strong feeling that there is little chance of there coming anything like this from WotC.
If that's actually what was said, that's fascinating (in a bad way). What about all the campaign hooks in those books? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Aug 2008 18:12:59 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 18:15:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
We (Candlekeep Scribes) are the few that actually care about the Realms. The Wizards web board posters are immature and fickle. If they can complain about something they will. Ungrateful comes to mind when thinking about how into 4E some of those people are but they still bash it just to have something to post.
Let's be fair--those two groups aren't mutually exclusive. I post on WotC's boards, for example. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Satisfaction Guaranteed
