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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 07:26:14
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Imagine how great the 4th edition Realms could have been if they decided to expand greatly on the lore and continuity, instead of NOT doing it!
Oh, they really would have made my day!
...But instead of that, we got this... abomination(as I'm sure it will turn out to be). The death of the published Realms. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 08:26:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
And, really, I feel like these changes are driven by an incorrect perception of FR. I also feel that there has never really been an attempt to correct that perception, just more stuff to exasperate that perception.
That's not just opinion, that's what happened. If one lists the things that were done and not done, that's the story they tell. Rich Baker explicitly dismissed the possibility of explaining how the setting actually works as 'lecturing'. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 16:10:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
That's not just opinion, that's what happened. If one lists the things that were done and not done, that's the story they tell. Rich Baker explicitly dismissed the possibility of explaining how the setting actually works as 'lecturing'.
Heh, I like to state these things as opinions, despite how sure I am about them.
And I can understand the statement made by Baker, it seems to me the best way to correct the perceptions would be through novels, because those seem to be the driving force behind the "Chosen are uber-powerful and save the day anyhow" idea. Which is annoying, as it sounds like those are the novels that sell.
::shrugs::
Whatever, I've never had a problem changing things in the Realms to suit my purposes (I've just not really had to so much, I did keep the 2E map rather than the 3E map though). I'm just disappointed that there won't be any information produced that I'll actually find really useful. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 16:49:42
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Actually, I like the fact that the people who really delved into the world were accussed of having "Feelings of Entitlement".
So, it was wrong for us to get emotionally attached to what we perceived as the greatest fantasy world of all time?
Geez... had I known they hated us so much, I would have stopped buying their novels years ago.
You know, the ones that were bought by those very same fans they have ostracized with 4e.
I hope none of the new fans start buying any novels - that might lead to more of those nasty "Entitlement" feelings they want no part of. As for me, I only buy 3e novels, so I'm going to be saving myself quite a bundle from now on.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Aug 2008 16:50:44 |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 17:08:13
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Spells stilled, scribes:
Perhaps, if the Fractured Realms sell so badly,
Wotc will drop the line and Ed will get control
back. I'm sure he would find a publisher that
would be willing to concede control to him. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 17:22:47
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My guess is that they will continue to publish the minimum number of novels so that the rights for the Realms will never revert to Ed, out of spite if nothing else.  I have become quite disillusioned with WotC as a whole. I do not know if I will be able to make the stand at no 4e Realms novels, just because I love the writing of many of the authors, but I sure as hell can stop myself from buying the anything from the 4e rules set and campaign settings (and the atrocious online versions of Dungeon and Dragon). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 12 Aug 2008 17:34:27 |
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Glantir
Acolyte
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 17:30:54
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The more I hear about 4e the more I despise it. It's just like they want to destroy the entire game  .
(If it were only the harpers, I could live with it, but as it seems everything else will also become as crappy (sorry) as it sounds right now.)
I really hope that the fans will vote with their wallets. If nothing else than this will bring WotC back to their senses.
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 17:33:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
And that in spite of the fact that there are already dragonborn in the (3.5) Realms.
And the fact that the 4e dragonborn are a completely different race, so instead of coming up with a logical story as to how the 3.5 Realms dragonborn became the 4e Realms dragonborn, they insert a new location over an old one that they do not like and ignore the 3.5 lore that they created somewhere around a year (two max) earlier. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:08:37
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I know we are all just beating a dead horse here, but now that a lot of the FRCG info is out, I can't help but wonder at some of these decisions.
Initially, I figured they would have some VERY good lore reasons for handling the 4e Realms they way they did. For instance, the Dragonborn thing HtDM mentions above - I had though they neeeded to ignore the 3e Dragonborn and create this Abeiran Kingdom of them because of a storyline.
But there was none.
WTF? 
As I look at the excerpts and at what people who now have the tome are posting, there doesn't seem to be ANY reasons for the changes - they REALLY WERE just plunked down all over the place willy-nilly, with no thought toward cohesion or back-story.
After all these months of bi___ing and complaining, I was still holding out some hope that all of this would come together as some sort of wonderful new storyline... something inspiring and worth all the damage they have wrought.
But it didn't - They really did just do whatever they wanted without any justification for the changes what-so-ever.
Which makes the changes SO MUCH WORSE, IMHO. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:28:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, it was wrong for us to get emotionally attached to what we perceived as the greatest fantasy world of all time?
Besides, I'm pretty sure "emotional attachment" is one of the requirements for being an actual fan of anything, including a fictional setting. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:30:55
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Spells stilled, scribes:
Perhaps, if the Fractured Realms sell so badly,
Wotc will drop the line and Ed will get control
back. I'm sure he would find a publisher that
would be willing to concede control to him.
Number one, that probably isn't likely to happen. Number two, even if it did happen, we don't know for sure if the results would be as desirable as we would like them to be. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:41:56
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| I actually would not be surprised if the sales of the FRCG are not good. They have released enough info before hand (and a little has been leaked) that the number of fans lost may very well exceed the number of new players gained. It really is up in the air, and only time will tell. (If the figures that SKR gave us for the Silver Marches are still relevant, at least WotC will know by mid-to-late November.) |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:42:03
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
And that in spite of the fact that there are already dragonborn in the (3.5) Realms.
And the fact that the 4e dragonborn are a completely different race, so instead of coming up with a logical story as to how the 3.5 Realms dragonborn became the 4e Realms dragonborn, they insert a new location over an old one that they do not like and ignore the 3.5 lore that they created somewhere around a year (two max) earlier.
The sad thing is: you are right.  And this is not only the case in regard to the Dragonborn, but also to many other changes 4e forced upon the realms, like the "Eladrin are elves"-debacle. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:46:58
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually would not be surprised if the sales of the FRCG are not good. They have released enough info before hand (and a little has been leaked) that the number of fans lost may very well exceed the number of new players gained. It really is up in the air, and only time will tell. (If the figures that SKR gave us for the Silver Marches are still relevant, at least WotC will know by mid-to-late November.)
yet... I would still bet that there will be an announcement that the first print run is sold out, they need to do a second printing, and it outsold the 3e FRCS. I just have that feeling.....
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"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 22:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
Heh, I like to state these things as opinions, despite how sure I am about them.
My feeling is people can tend to tune out such disclaimers if you apply them everywhere.quote:
And I can understand the statement made by Baker, it seems to me the best way to correct the perceptions would be through novels, because those seem to be the driving force behind the "Chosen are uber-powerful and save the day anyhow" idea.
Except saving the day is manifestly not what happens in the novels that star them and I struggle to imagine anyone getting that impression without reading it online first. Something else is going on there.quote:
I'm just disappointed that there won't be any information produced that I'll actually find really useful.
Well, it is still too soon to be sure of that, but there likely won't be much based simply on the publishing schedule. |
Edited by - Faraer on 12 Aug 2008 22:10:43 |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 22:55:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually would not be surprised if the sales of the FRCG are not good. They have released enough info before hand (and a little has been leaked) that the number of fans lost may very well exceed the number of new players gained. It really is up in the air, and only time will tell. (If the figures that SKR gave us for the Silver Marches are still relevant, at least WotC will know by mid-to-late November.)
yet... I would still bet that there will be an announcement that the first print run is sold out, they need to do a second printing, and it outsold the 3e FRCS. I just have that feeling.....
Judging by the fact that swathes of people over on rpg.net are now celebrating* the fact that the new Shattered Realms doesn't contain anything any more that distinguishes it from any other generic player-centred semi-low fantasy setting, I suspect unfortunately that sales will be good.
Never mind the fact that it will be mostly be 12 year olds who buy it and then discard it unplayed and uncared-for when they don't find any hot-lesbian-NightElf-Warforged-cyb0r in it.
The Forgotten Realms is a grown-up and intelligent setting. The Shattered Realms is anything but.
*http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=409007 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Except saving the day is manifestly not what happens in the novels that star them and I struggle to imagine anyone getting that impression without reading it online first. Something else is going on there.
Agreed, although I've noticed that there are always those people who like to complain about the simple fact that novel protagonists tend not to lose horribly ("I'm so tired of good winning all the time!"). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Aug 2008 00:13:53 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
*http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=409007
I read the first post, then decided not to waste my time. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:28:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[I read the first post, then decided not to waste my time.
Some of it is really quite funny, worth 10 mins of idle time IMHO just to read them venting their spleens with no clue about what they are talking about
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:35:14
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[I read the first post, then decided not to waste my time.
Some of it is really quite funny, worth 10 mins of idle time IMHO just to read them venting their spleens with no clue about what they are talking about
Damian
Probably, but unfortunately I'm just not in the mood for it right now. Not feeling to great--reading CK makes me feel better, reading the BS spewed by people who hate the FR setting wouldn't. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Aug 2008 00:35:34 |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 05:02:49
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quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I actually would not be surprised if the sales of the FRCG are not good. They have released enough info before hand (and a little has been leaked) that the number of fans lost may very well exceed the number of new players gained. It really is up in the air, and only time will tell. (If the figures that SKR gave us for the Silver Marches are still relevant, at least WotC will know by mid-to-late November.)
yet... I would still bet that there will be an announcement that the first print run is sold out, they need to do a second printing, and it outsold the 3e FRCS. I just have that feeling.....
Judging by the fact that swathes of people over on rpg.net are now celebrating* the fact that the new Shattered Realms doesn't contain anything any more that distinguishes it from any other generic player-centred semi-low fantasy setting, I suspect unfortunately that sales will be good.
Never mind the fact that it will be mostly be 12 year olds who buy it and then discard it unplayed and uncared-for when they don't find any hot-lesbian-NightElf-Warforged-cyb0r in it.
The Forgotten Realms is a grown-up and intelligent setting. The Shattered Realms is anything but.
*http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=409007
yep.. enworld has a thread in which it is the same "wheee! they blew it up!" mentality. Anyone who disagrees is thrown to the wolves by about the same six or seven posters who hate the realms. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 09:37:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Let's let people feel what they want to feel about it.
There's a difference between being legitimately ticked off and actually, deliberately trying to stay upset.
I understand we’re dealing with opinions, but take the "it's just a generic fantasy setting now" statements for example. Those are an excuse because you have to pretend lore that still exists actually doesn’t.
“Lack of depth” from the excerpts.....so what? They’re as full of information as a lot of what you’d find in the original grey books or the 3E FRCS.
In fact the FR Campaign Guide isn’t supposed to be meaty and full of deep, immersive lore. Just like the 3E FRCS wasn’t.
If you have a sense of entitlement about the Realms....great, support it. Find ways to make it work. Knit the lore-gaps together.
Just remember two things:
1) WotC doesn’t owe us anything.
2) WotC didn’t “ostracize” all the fans. There are several of us moving right along to 4E. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 13 Aug 2008 09:39:12 |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 10:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Let's let people feel what they want to feel about it.
There's a difference between being legitimately ticked off and actually, deliberately trying to stay upset.
I understand we’re dealing with opinions, but take the "it's just a generic fantasy setting now" statements for example. Those are an excuse because you have to pretend lore that still exists actually doesn’t.
As author of the "it's just a generic fantasy setting now" statement I feel I must reply to your assertion about the lore. What do we mean by lore? Up until now, in the Forgotten Realms, there has always been the feeling that it is a complete live and breathing world, where people (and monsters) plot, travel, kill, eat, drink, play, fall in love, and do the thousands of things that sentient creatures do. In the standard canonical pre-4e setting, the players are part of this, they are one thread amongst many contributing to the destiny of Toril. The players can alter the world, but they do so in conjunction with, in storyline terms, the existing content. The sheer vibrancy of what Ed has created and what others up to now have nutured was emphatically brought home to me recently by THO explaining wonderfully what happened to the last person to utter the oath "By Tymora's Tremendous Tits".
However, in 4e, this has all turned round on its head. The 4e FRCS and the excepts we have seen so far have ditched this depth to conform with the new WOTC mantra of "the players must NOT be overshadowed, ever, for whatever reason". So out goes anything that doesn't conform to this new mantra. Now, the Shattered Realms is nothing more than Greyhawk-lite, where only the players ever do something.
Despite the best efforts of folks like BRJ, the quality of the new stuff is (warning, incoming opinion here) not worthy of the Realms. It lacks depth and vibrancy. It lacks anchors into the Realms lore. Take for example, the Loudwater except. My best-friends DnD-playing 11-year old daughter could do a better job of characterisation than was done with the Elf Noblewoman. Fine you say, Ed and others can create vibrancy. Maybe they can. But they are straightjacketed by WOTC's new demands. And they have to also work within the constraints provided by the retconning of the mythology to make it 4e compatible. I mean, Shadow Toril? Spellplague? Randomly merging deities? Deities and NPCs suddenly acting as if they've all had full-frontal lobotamies. Wtf?????
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
“Lack of depth” from the excerpts.....so what? They’re as full of information as a lot of what you’d find in the original grey books or the 3E FRCS.
WOTC has said that they're no longer going to support the Realms in the way they were. 3 books and thats it.
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
In fact the FR Campaign Guide isn’t supposed to be meaty and full of deep, immersive lore. Just like the 3E FRCS wasn’t.
I beg your pardon, the 3e FRCS is recognised by most people as one of the best RPG supplements of all time. It has hidden vistas (brush up on your meta-Tolkien if you don't know what that means) in abundance.
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
If you have a sense of entitlement about the Realms....great, support it. Find ways to make it work. Knit the lore-gaps together.
Its hard to repair something that's been smashed into pieces beyond repair.
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Just remember two things:
1) WotC doesn’t owe us anything.
2) WotC didn’t “ostracize” all the fans.
Indeed they didn't. But ask yourself this: why has the reaction here from the fans been wholly negative? Why can the impression I get from the authors who post here about the new Shattered Realms be summed up in two words: "Gritted Teeth"?
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
There are several of us moving right along to 4E
Good. I hope you enjoy it. Really I do.
But do stop giving off the "how dare you not move to 4e and accept WOTC's word as law!" vibes that you're currently emanating. (to be fair it seems to be something inherent in many 4e boosters - so its maybe not your fault).
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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 14:03:06
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I cannot agree more with you, StarBog. And I hope you can understand what we mean here, Sanishiver. There is actually reasoning behind our opinions about the k3wl-r34lms, not some fixed idea of anti-WotC hatred. Some people may become offended by such statements, you know.
I certainly don't agree with you, but I highly respect your right to speak(write) your mind. |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:25:06
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Sanishiver, I'm a bit worried that I came across as a bit too harsh in my response to you. It wasn't my intention. If you're happy with the new 4e FRCS, then excellent. Make sure you have a good time gaming with it.
But understand its definitely NOT my cup of tea, and I have (for me), extremely good reasons for thinking as I do. |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:56:19
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I really don't know what to say about the changes the Realms will (have?) undergo in the following months. I fell in love with the Realms very early on in the 80s, and some of the articles produced then were for the love of the world. You could feel it in the words as you read them, and often, literally see the event or locale in your mind's eye.
With apologies to all the 3e FR fans here, I think the beginning of the end for hearty lore one could insert into any campaign started in 2000. Once the mechanics of the new D&D system began to seep into how one perceived Realms lore and content, it went from being lore and content you couldn't wait for players to experience to lore that gave the players characters experience, so to speak. It took the heart out of the content and replaced with with cold, lifeless, undead-like mechanics that were used to explain the how more often than the why or the what.
When I hear about the deific changes, what's being done to the Harpers, the rationales for why there has to be a Spellplague, I feel clammy and cold like my skin rubbing up again cold steel on a bitterly cold 33 degree rainy day. Shivers aplenty.
It's not something I'm interested in using in my Realms. None of it. Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on.  |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 19:02:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Varl
Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on.
 Wow, that is one of the best things I have read so far. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Glantir
Acolyte
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 19:07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on.
Wow, that is one of the best things I have read so far.
Why didn't they tell that Lord Manshoon earlier  |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 03:19:18
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TO ALL:
I agree with much of the sentiment here (not that you all need validation from me, of course you don't). Really, I don't like a lot of what WotC is doing. The comments that were made earlier in the thread about WotC piling on more Dragonborn out of Abeir when we already had the whole Children of Bahamut thing going are spot on.
Why the hell over-write a good setup?
If I can make it to the Realms Seminar at Gen Con this year, I'd like to rake Chris Perkins over the coals about this (and a few other things, too).
It's just that there's a difference between using reasoning (StarBog's clarification of his comments is a good example of this, even though I disagree with most of what he wrote) and posting blatant hyperbole (MarkusTay). That's what I'm trying to get at.
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 03:43:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
[1) WotC doesn’t owe us anything.
But you would think as a decent portion of their fan base, they would care about us just a little
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
2) WotC didn’t “ostracize” all the fans. There are several of us moving right along to 4E.
all, no. many, absolutely. most, probably |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Thirteen fateful words.......
