quote:

---

Originally posted by Gray Richardson

Best guess is that Umberlee was the sea god of the Talfiric pantheon, one of the major human proto-pantheons, centered in the Western Heartlands and along the Sword Coast North, back before human cultures blended into the greater Faerunian pantheon we see today.

There is no lore that I know of to tie her to the War of Light and Darkness, I don't know if she goes that far back. We don't know her origins. She may have a more recent origin. She was likely seen by her human adherents as the embodiment of the Sea of Swords--as harsh, cold and treacherous as the waters she presided over.

She is associated with the Gods of Fury, including Talos, Auril, and Malar. Talos does date back to the War of Light and Darkness, he is the original force of destruction that arose from that conflict. Auril and Malar, while not linked specifically to the War of Light and Darkness are still very old. Both Auril and Malar go back to at least -30,000 DR from before the time when Lolth rebelled against the Seldarine. I don't know if Umberlee is necessarily as old as her compatriots, but I imagine she has been around for at least as long as humans have sailed the Sea of Swords.

Her origin story is completely open, but I like to think she was once a particularly ancient and malefic kraken sorceress who lived along the Sword Coast, perhaps near a major river mouth (such as the Delimbiyr), where early Talfiric settlers fished and sailed. I see her exhorting tribesmen, villagers, and sailors into making sacrifices to her in exchange for safe passage and to abate her wrath. With the passage of time she captured the favor of Talos and eventually ascended to godhood herself. But that's just idle speculation on my part.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian R. James

Herne was slain by Malar well before the Yuir tribes even existed, so I would recommend against his inclusion.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gray Richardson

Point taken and very worthy of pondering.

I defaulted to Talfiric only because in Faiths & Pantheons it emphasizes that there were 4 major human proto-pantheons prior to the Dawn Cataclysm including Talfiric, Coramshite, Netherese and Jhaamdathan. At some point before Dale Reckoning the pantheons of the North and Western Heartlands had merged together and that is what I was referring to as the Talfiric pantheon. Also, in -425 DR, Illusk had been refounded by Netherese and I tend to think of it as being within the sphere of the Netherese pantheon.

What I was calling the Talfiric pantheon, was a reference to the pantheon of the North in general, which had blended over time from several prior cultures and which had a semi-unified pantheon by the time that Netheril fell. Cultural influences included the Talfiri, the Illuskans, and at some point a population of Finns or Laps that had emigrated from Earth bringing with them such gods as Kiputytto, Loviatar, and Mielikki. The Northern pantheon also adopted some fey gods including Lurue and Shiallia.

But you are correct that prior to -425 the Illuskans were a distinct race with their own unique cultural heritage centered around the city of Illusk, especially during its heyday circa -3000 DR to -2103 DR. Umberlee could just as easily and probably did originate with Illusk or Ruathym or one of the many islands settled by the Northmen.

Brian James posits in his (original) Chronology that the Illuskans themselves descended from a race called the Azuposi that lived in northern Anchorome. The race was either split up by the Sundering, leaving them spread out on both sides of the Trackless sea and scattered across many islands, or they simply migrated from Anchorome to the shores of Faerun. If true then Umberlee could have originated as far away as Anchorome.

I can think of other alternate origins for Umberlee as well. She could have been the daughter of Ulutiu or Panzuriel. Or she may have once been a member of the Great School pantheon of the aquatic creator race, before they converted to Ramenos. She could have been a pirate queen of Ruathym ascended to godhood. Or perhaps she ascended from a mortal batrachi woman over 30,000 years ago.

Her origin story is lost to time, but whatever it is, I bet it is a good one.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian R. James

So Elves of Faerūn is moving away from canon eh? Not that it's a bad thing, just surprising.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian R. James

So Elves of Faerūn is moving away from canon eh? Not that it's a bad thing, just surprising.

---