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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2002 : 13:07:01
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I know BG is borderline canon material, but in BG1 + TotSC there is a feature in Nashkel that has eluded my research so far. Clicking three times on a particular gravestone near the Temple of Helm summons a group of flaming warriors. These warriors can be defeated, but rise out of the flames again...
Does anyone know the origin of these Phoenix Guards (or the spell)?
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Ditalidas
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
127 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2002 : 15:56:02
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I have no idea. It was one of the places in BG that kept intriguing me... and every time I passed the gravestones I could not help but klicking on them. 
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'All that is' is also 'All that is not' for the one cannot exist without the other.
Sweet Water and Light Laughter |
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Darwin Tenderfoot
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2002 : 01:38:39
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Really you can do that, I beat the game without even knowing that. I'll have to check that out!! |
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Drummer Boy
Senior Scribe
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2002 : 00:43:42
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| Yeah, me too! I want to try that. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2002 : 08:00:45
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| The thing about the Phoenix Guard that bothers me most, is that I think I have seen a reference to them in one of the recent 3e products, however I can't find said reference anymore. I had never seen anything hinting at them in 2e. However, the Guard appear almost like some sort of a summoning spell. <makes mental note to browse through some 3e material...again.> |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 17:41:25
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They appeared in Durlag's Tower as well.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 17:46:13
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Maybe this is one of the Realm's little unsolved mysteries awaiting official disclosure by the Greenwood himself...
I have asked the question about the Phoenix Guard two or three years ago on the Realms-L as well... to no avail. No-one seems to know the (canon) answer.
Intrigueing... |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 17:48:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Maybe this is one of the Realm's little unsolved mysteries awaiting official disclosure by the Greenwood himself...
I have asked the question about the Phoenix Guard two or three years ago on the Realms-L as well... to no avail. No-one seems to know the (canon) answer.
Intrigueing...
BioWare may have made them up. That is not at all unlikely.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Captain Louis
Acolyte
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2002 : 02:28:30
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| I may be mistaken, but I think I saw an entry for Phoenix Guards in Monsters of Faerun. |
Ow, I cut my lip!
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2002 : 15:20:05
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Following your lead, I went through my copy of Monsters of Faerun again, but couldn't find the reference. For completeness sakes, I also took the Monster Manual for a search, but again came up empty handed.
The only 'Phoenix' references I found were the mythological bird of the same name and an item in Magic of Faerun called: 'Phoenix Helm'. However both do not seem to be linked to the BG effect other then the name... |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 04 Dec 2002 15:22:17 |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2004 : 04:02:52
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Greetings you asked about the guard.  Well sources indicate that the elves hold a powerful book of prophesies called the Arcanum one of them is called the Finale by the elves witch details the coming of the seven supposedly strange creatures of evil origin. anyhow the elves knew that when the time came to defend the world they would play a major role and so a group of powerful elven leaders called the retreat. While others returned to Faerie. Where Elil Avelron was founded and the seven leadres led by Rarnadel created the Pheonix guard the main force of thousandes of elves withc make up a primary defence. The also defend elven communiteies. But they do not aid other towns besides elves beleiving it must remain a secret. Uf these aren't the guys then i know not who |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
Edited by - Senbar Flay on 05 May 2004 04:04:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2004 : 06:04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
Greetings you asked about the guard. Well sources indicate that the elves hold a powerful book of prophesies called the Arcanum one of them is called the Finale by the elves witch details the coming of the seven supposedly strange creatures of evil origin. anyhow the elves knew that when the time came to defend the world they would play a major role and so a group of powerful elven leaders called the retreat. While others returned to Faerie. Where Elil Avelron was founded and the seven leadres led by Rarnadel created the Pheonix guard the main force of thousandes of elves withc make up a primary defence. The also defend elven communiteies. But they do not aid other towns besides elves beleiving it must remain a secret. Uf these aren't the guys then i know not who
Pray, what are these sources you refer to? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2004 : 13:13:21
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When I say sources i mean books novels net etc...
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Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2004 : 15:34:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
When I say sources i mean books novels net etc...
Perchance you could share the titles of these sources in order for the scribes here to search for those tomes and scrolls and read further detail for themselves? |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 17:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
When I say sources i mean books novels net etc...
Perchance you could share the titles of these sources in order for the scribes here to search for those tomes and scrolls and read further detail for themselves?
Well I got this info from a site on the Dlaggradath net something like that it has info on all the races where it details the elven creaton of the Pheonix guard. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 18:59:30
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I guess the whole thing might have been something purely for the game as there seem to be no 'canon' references to the Phoenix Guard.
That is unless the source Senbar Flay refers to mentions a canon source where they could have gotten their information from... |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 05:58:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
Well I got this info from a site on the Dlaggradath net something like that it has info on all the races where it details the elven creaton of the Pheonix guard.
I found the scroll Senbar mentioned. http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/retreat.htm I would be interested to know how accurate this info is. |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 00:07:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
Well I got this info from a site on the Dlaggradath net something like that it has info on all the races where it details the elven creaton of the Pheonix guard.
I found the scroll Senbar mentioned. http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/retreat.htm I would be interested to know how accurate this info is.
I dont' think its Canon I do remeber someone telling me it is fan created(I think) so I guess it's not accurate Canon wise. But it might relate to these phoenix warriors however I think it is unlikely since these guards have to do with the church of Helm more than these elves. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 00:30:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
Well I got this info from a site on the Dlaggradath net something like that it has info on all the races where it details the elven creaton of the Pheonix guard.
I found the scroll Senbar mentioned. http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/retreat.htm I would be interested to know how accurate this info is.
I dont' think its Canon I do remeber someone telling me it is fan created(I think) so I guess it's not accurate Canon wise. But it might relate to these phoenix warriors however I think it is unlikely since these guards have to do with the church of Helm more than these elves.
The site is fan created. The webmasters do appear to try to defer to source material, including novels and I suspect FR computer games.
However there are guards and there are guards. Even if having the same name it certainly can be a different order and have different pupose. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 14:32:05
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Honestly guys, I think the appearance of the warriors in the video game is more another facet of the game rather than a reference to obscure FR lore.
On the other hand, it was neat to see Wooly Rupert appearing in a game, even if he IS accompanied by a berserk and insane human. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2020 : 21:08:10
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Master Rupert,
I believe the source that Learned Scribe Senbar Flay was referring too was this tome here in the 'Keep:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/retreat.htm
A great tome it is by the way!
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
Greetings you asked about the guard. Well sources indicate that the elves hold a powerful book of prophesies called the Arcanum one of them is called the Finale by the elves witch details the coming of the seven supposedly strange creatures of evil origin. anyhow the elves knew that when the time came to defend the world they would play a major role and so a group of powerful elven leaders called the retreat. While others returned to Faerie. Where Elil Avelron was founded and the seven leadres led by Rarnadel created the Pheonix guard the main force of thousandes of elves withc make up a primary defence. The also defend elven communiteies. But they do not aid other towns besides elves beleiving it must remain a secret. Uf these aren't the guys then i know not who
Pray, what are these sources you refer to?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2020 : 16:36:10
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Master Rupert,
Are you referring to the following shared link?
http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/retreat.htm
If so, I checked it, and it was no longer a valid link. If it isn't the one you're referring to, I'm afraid I've overlooked what you're referencing.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
I believe the source that Learned Scribe Senbar Flay was referring too was this tome here in the 'Keep:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/retreat.htm
A great tome it is by the way!
No, he answered the question about the source 15 years ago.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2020 : 21:47:56
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Are you referring to the following shared link?
http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/retreat.htm
If so, I checked it, and it was no longer a valid link. If it isn't the one you're referring to, I'm afraid I've overlooked what you're referencing.
Yes. He answered the question when it was asked 15 years ago. He also said it wasn't canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2020 : 02:40:32
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Master Rupert,
Thank you for clarifying, and sorry for the delay! :) I had to go back and reorganize my mind to flesh that out (for some reason, it was not working the way it should have for a minute).
When I posted my response, I was posting something from here at the 'Keep, which itself references canon sources, as a means to provide something with more validity, by a canon source.
Though, I am forgetting for some reason: are Dragon magazine issues considered canon? I just drew a blank!
Best regards as always!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Are you referring to the following shared link?
http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/retreat.htm
If so, I checked it, and it was no longer a valid link. If it isn't the one you're referring to, I'm afraid I've overlooked what you're referencing.
Yes. He answered the question when it was asked 15 years ago. He also said it wasn't canon.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Phoenix Guard
