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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 13:49:09
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I'm just wondering is there any connection between them
in our recent adventure, we found a timeless chamber below Unthalass and there was an imprisoned and mutilated creature with strange symbols carved in its skin, in Rhebus alphabet, later we asked a dabus about it but it wasn't in their language, or was somehow coded
anyway I'm not asking for my character but this doesn't seem like a coincidence, Ao + skar and portals, and Imaskari were against gods, anyone has a theory, maybe they exiled him ...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 14:47:52
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| Just because the words are similar, it doesn't mean there is a connection. "Cart" and "Care" are words that are remarkably similar, and there is nothing at all related betwixt the two. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 16:10:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just because the words are similar, it doesn't mean there is a connection. "Cart" and "Care" are words that are remarkably similar, and there is nothing at all related betwixt the two.
I agree, but I'm not sure if "cart" and "care" is that good an example, though. While the spelling is indeed very similar, the phonetic structure of the words are quite different - the only similarity is that both words begin with a "k"-sound. Perhaps "hair" and "hare" would have been better.
Kajehase, making irrelevant posts for the betterment of all since the noughties |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 11 Jun 2008 16:11:25 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 16:52:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just because the words are similar, it doesn't mean there is a connection. "Cart" and "Care" are words that are remarkably similar, and there is nothing at all related betwixt the two.
I agree, but I'm not sure if "cart" and "care" is that good an example, though. While the spelling is indeed very similar, the phonetic structure of the words are quite different - the only similarity is that both words begin with a "k"-sound. Perhaps "hair" and "hare" would have been better.
Kajehase, making irrelevant posts for the betterment of all since the noughties
Yeah, but trying to draw parallels with two words having "skar" in them made my example valid.  |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 08:47:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only specific connection I've seen between Aoskar and the Imaskari was purely fan-based. And it involved Sigil too. That's about it.
thanks for the info, found it on Planewalker, nice story, but can be expanded, wonder what my DM has done with it
I like this cause it brings my two favorite settings together
quote:
Just because the words are similar, it doesn't mean there is a connection. "Cart" and "Care" are words that are remarkably similar, and there is nothing at all related betwixt the two.
not just words, wrong analogy
read the story; http://www.planewalker.com/forums/viewThread.php?intPostID=8651 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 16:01:37
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Funny, but I was going to incorporate the premise of that Fan-fiction into my history of the East, and more specifically, the History of the Taan. Nothing too detailed, just two or three 'incidents' recorded in the timeline.
That was part of my now-defunct CKC article, which grew into an unmanageable beast... TWICE.
Someday I may get back to it, but it will have to be an entire seperate publication of its own to do it right.
The Imaskari had connections to the Batrachi early on (through ruined temples) - which is where I and others have concluded their earliest magical breakthroughs came from. It doesn't take all that much of a leap to place Aoskar as an early power that had been venerated by the Batrachi, and then re-discovered by the Imaskari.
After a certain inter-dimensional mishap, they would have turned from Aoskar and looked for other sources of power... the Fey! Their connection to that creator race is clearly demonstarted in the wall-murals in Bruce Cordell's novel Darkvision.
Lastly, they had run-ins with the Phaerimm, as did the Sarruhk millenia before, so that gives them a round-about connection to that creator race as wll.
There's a great story in there somewhere, and I was trying to fit all the pieces together for awhile. Maybe someone more talented then I can do better. If I can, I may still work a tiny bit of that into my next article, which doesn't focus so much on the Hordelands.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jun 2008 16:09:22 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 12:33:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I'm just wondering is there any connection between them
in our recent adventure, we found a timeless chamber below Unthalass and there was an imprisoned and mutilated creature with strange symbols carved in its skin, in Rhebus alphabet, later we asked a dabus about it but it wasn't in their language, or was somehow coded
anyway I'm not asking for my character but this doesn't seem like a coincidence, Ao + skar and portals, and Imaskari were against gods, anyone has a theory, maybe they exiled him ...
In our Waterdeep campaign the DM used Aoskar in the Realms as the God or Portals and Doors, worshipped as the "Son of Ao" (kar=son, in some planar language) by what you could call a cabal of "wacky cultists" (i.e. Heretics of the Faith). :) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 16:30:38
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I am SO going to use that!
Accept Kar = 'Kin'.
Now I just have to write something about the Mujhari tribesman Ima and his sons, who found the Batrachi Temple and first discovered inter-planar magics.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 12:29:55
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| why Fey, wouldn't yugoloths be much more appropriate considering their godless nature? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 15:39:07
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Well, there is quite a bit of conflicting lore there, but I can see Fey as being similar to the Imaskari in being 'Godless'.
After all, many of our European Faerie lore surrounds Christian priests confronting 'souless' wee folk. I'm not sure if thats the connection Bruce Cordell was trying to make, but I see the Fey as being 'above' the gods in some way - they were the first race, and some of their number (Titania and Oberon, etc) have even ascended are now ancient deities in their own right. Add to that that the Elves came from Faerie originally, and we can postulate that they are also a Fey race - perhaps offspring, or even some sort of 'minion race' created for that purpose (they don't call them "Creator Races" for nothing). From THAT race arose an entire pantheon of Gods - the Seldarine - and it would make sense that the Fey would consider themselves superior to the gods of the species they created (who are probably just ascended members of that species themselves, as in the case of Shevarash).
So, yeah... I can see the Fey looking 'down' upon most deities, being both older and wiser then the majority of them. There are probably a few - like the more ancient Draconic Gods - that the Fey show respect for, but human and demi-human gods? As powerful as Mystra was, Titania has seen at least three of them come and go.
So take the FR lore and add in a decent amount of European Folklore, and you have yourself a race that would be willing to teach others older forms of magic that can circumvent the gods.
Just my spin on things, mind you, so take it for what its worth.
Now, getting back to my original statement above - the real conflict comes in when we look at the Desert of Desloation series that takes place in the Raurin. The Imaskari (called the Raurindi in that source) appear to have quite a few temples to hundreds of different gods, many of which are from other planes and not seen elsewhere in FR. I reconcile that by saying the Raurindi existed around a 1000 years ago (as per the module), and they were the decendents of the survivor-states that remained after Imaskar proper was destroyed by the Mulan Gods. Now, picture a group of people that feel their entire civilization was punished by "the Gods", and you have the makings of a VERY devout group of refugees building new nations where the priesthood has supreme power, perhaps even running things (a theocracy). In that way, we can see how the fallen Imaskari people came full-circle, and wound up with dozens of city-states each folowing a different religous path, before they, too, were swallowed up by the expanding desert.
Ergo, the original pre-fall Imaskari would have used Fey magic, and perhaps that magic entailed a lot of 'pact magic', wherein very powerful outsiders made deals with them, including Yugoloths. In fact, if we use the 'Pact Magic' as presented in the Elric novels (not FR), then it makes even more sense that extra-planar beings were involved - Melnibonean Pacts had to do with 'blocking' something from getting to you. Lesser Outsiders could grant you protection from swords, or arrows, or whatever... and perhaps someone on the level of Asmodeus (or one of those 'Elder Evils') could grant the power of blocking gods from reaching a certain crystal sphere.
Like I said, its fun to think about, and there is an amazing story in there, perhaps even trilogy-worthy (the three ages of Imaskar?). Maybe one day, when Brian gets a few more design credits under his belt, they'll allow him to write such an epic. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jun 2008 15:58:55 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 11:52:07
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thanks for the great explanation, it gives a lot options
Asmodeus is also a good choice for the godlessness, according to some sources he supports the Athar trying to lower the power of deities through disbelief, maybe Gargauth was his pact maker agent
there also might be a connection of the Imaskari plague to the yugoloths, cause when it comes to diseases the Oinoloth is the best in the universe
as planar travelers maybe the Imaskari realized that most gods were limited to just one continent, so they dealed with those who had a wider range of influence, like Demogorgon, mentioned in GHotR |
Edited by - Quale on 16 Jun 2008 11:53:40 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 08:10:08
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Aoskar might have been a powerful mage in the early history of the Imaskari. He might have been a great leader from which they took their name. It could be that the name "Imaskar" is a genitive form or possibly a blend with Aoskar's own name. It might have been originally "Im Aoskar" meaning "Of Aoskar" or "The People of Aoskar" and over time blended together and lost the "o" to become "Imaskar".
While the Imaskari did not typically give their allegiance to gods, they certainly knew that gods existed and Aoskar may have sought to elevate himself to divine station, seeing it as the next logical step for himself and a better alternative than ending up in the Wall as a Faithless.
Having succeeded in his apotheosis, but having little chance of fostering a following among his own people, he probably made good on his portfolio of "portals" and went off to explore the multiverse to seek congregants elsewhere in far different planes.
It has been suggested by Rip VanWormer that Aoskar may have had a hand in building Sigil... sort of. I like that idea a lot. In fact, such a grand effort may have been one of the trials he needed to complete in order to qualify for divine ascension. Something to consider anyway.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 11:02:06
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| I like that idea |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 13:44:55
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Quick question: Where could I find information on Aoskar?
/apologises for threadjacking |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 15:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwizard
Quick question: Where could I find information on Aoskar?
/apologises for threadjacking
Specifically, On Hallowed Ground, a 2e PLANESCAPE sourcebook. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 19:47:27
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Thats nearly impossible to find, anywhere.
@Gray Richardson - HEY! Welcome back, I haven't seen you around in awhile! I used to really enjoy those deep, cosmological discussions you and I used to have (mostly at WotC). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 20:14:53
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| I actually have a second copy of On Hallowed Ground that I'm going to be putting on eBay sooner or later... I've had three copies now. The first was lost in the fire, and then, when replacing everything, I somehow accidently got it twice. |
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Aoskar and Imaskar
