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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2008 : 21:40:21
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Hi folks!
I face a dilema:
I use the 3.0 rules. There the feat Improved Disarm enables the character to disarm his opponent without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Now, a player of mine argues that there is no way to ever get better in disarming.
I am reluctant to use a 3.5 feat as than other players might aruge similarly and Without using the 3.5 version of this feat (which adds a +4 bonus to the disarm check) could you think of any other way to go about.
Any houserule? A possible senergy bonus through any skill or such?
Give me something to work with
Mod Edit: Shifted to a more appropriate shelf.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 May 2008 13:27:48
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 22:10:26
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| Are you saying that you want to use the 3.0 feat, but make it better? I am confused as to what the actual question is. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 07:57:14
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Are you saying that you want to use the 3.0 feat, but make it better? I am confused as to what the actual question is.
Sounds wierd, but actually yes, that is exactly my question:
How to make the 3.0 rule on disarm better!
It does not neccissarily have to be a change in the feat itself. To accomplish that I could simply take the 3.5 rule change on Improved Disarm (see above). I am looking for another way, a sneakier way, to improve the disarming. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 08:16:46
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Here some pondering on my part about the iprovement on disarm:
The disarming option of a character improves with the improvement of anything that influences the attack roll (base attack bonus, strength, magic weapon). This means that a character practicing nothing else but disarming his opponents would not get any better in disarming his opponents that any other character of the same class level as he. The extra practice time would not pay of.
Now, Improved disarm only lets the character avoid the attack of opportunity. This seems ok at first, after all - the character honed his skills and movement and therefor knows now how to get around the opponents weapon when making his disarm attempt. But he still has the very same chances of success as before.
And after taking Improved Disarm - what than?! looking at the Improved Disarm feat from the 3.0 rules, this is pretty lame. And with forcing the character to take another feat as a prerequisite makes this otherwise very interesting playing option expensive as well!
With sticking to 3.0 rules in general, how could I go about making it more interesting to take up this feat?
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Dezmodu
Acolyte
Netherlands
17 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 10:15:19
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maby you can let him/them use a skill to improve their chance, you could use an existing skill or just introduce one with the name ''disarming''.
if you make a new skill I think it would be pretty ballanced, seeing as you do give something up for the bonus. and if thats to much you can always make it a cross class skill. or don't alow the abillity mod. or somthing.
DeZ |
paladin: Ignorance is no excuse!
Rogue: Why?
Paladin: I don't know.
Rogue: IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE!!!
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Edited by - Dezmodu on 06 May 2008 10:34:27 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 16:22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Dezmodu
maby you can let him/them use a skill to improve their chance, you could use an existing skill or just introduce one with the name ''disarming''.
if you make a new skill I think it would be pretty ballanced, seeing as you do give something up for the bonus. and if thats to much you can always make it a cross class skill. or don't alow the abillity mod. or somthing.
DeZ
I was sort of thinking this myself, but I would definitely use the existing Bluff skill for this. You could actually just build it into the skill. So what I would do, is have the player make the disarm attempt, then have them make a Bluff check vs the opponent's Sense Motive check. For every increment of 5 (rounded down) that they player wins (i.e. the player rolled 15 on the Bluff check and the opponent rolled 10 on the Sense Motive check, so the player won by an increment of 5) the player receives a +2 on his/her disarm attempt. If the opponent wins the Bluff/Sense Motive check, then the disarm attempt is played out as normal. Does this make sense, or is it too confusing? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 06 May 2008 16:28:57 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 23:01:54
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| would make sense like an additional feint check, so to speak. I'll ponder that for a little bit... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 21:38:43
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I have bondered on this a LOT and came up with the following house rules:
- making a sucessful feint (bluff check vs. the opponents sense motive check) prior to the attack provides the attacker a +2 bonus on the disarm check for every 5 points above the minimum necessary. (see hawkins idea above)
- making a successful Tumble check vs. 20 gives you another +2 bonus on the disarm check.
However, there are still a few questions open:
1. What happens if you use the whip to disarm?
(a) The 'size'-modifiers for the weapons involved in the disarm attempt (+4 per size category) don't make any sense in that case. For the larger the weapon you try to hit with a whip the easier it should get. Instead, the whip being a small weapon would be a bad choice.
(b) What happens with the attack of opportunity? The whip has a reach of 15' and as such one could try to disarm without ever gettting into the threat range of the opponents weapon.
Further what 'size'-modifier would one use if attempting the disarm 'unarmed'?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2008 : 09:13:32
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| Use the 3.5 version. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2008 : 11:09:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Use the 3.5 version.
OK, point taken!
However, even if you change the size categories it still seems wierd to me, that is seems much easier to use a whip to disarm someone of his longsword than of his dagger?
The 3.5 rules don't solve that problem, IMO. Wouldn't you agree? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2008 : 07:26:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Use the 3.5 version.
OK, point taken!
However, even if you change the size categories it still seems wierd to me, that is seems much easier to use a whip to disarm someone of his longsword than of his dagger?
The 3.5 rules don't solve that problem, IMO. Wouldn't you agree?
I believe the 3.5 disarm rules account for size difference (see quote below). Cheers!
QUOTING SRD:
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Step 2: Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a disarm attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a –4 penalty. (An unarmed strike is considered a light weapon, so you always take a penalty when trying to disarm an opponent by using an unarmed strike.) If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. If the targeted item isn’t a melee weapon, the defender takes a –4 penalty on the roll. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2008 : 16:22:49
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| Yes, I think I would have to agree with PDK on this. The modifiers for size in the 3.5 rules would still work for your improvised 3e rules. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rules question on Impr. Disarm
