| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2008 : 18:51:38
|
|
I have a group of people who loves min-maxing. And that makes me want to throw unexpected things at them. I have this idea of a cursed mirror that makes an evil incorporeal copy of everyone who looks into it. The copy will be set on killing the real person and take over the body. Is there any existing rules for something like that? I'm also wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to make the copies slightly weaker, otherwise this will probably turn into a slaughter.
|
|
|
Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 19:11:41
|
Well met, Kairin
Have you checked out the Encyclopedia Magica? I don't have it here with me but there might be something there you can adapt. It's the weekend, so there won't be a lot of replies till Monday. But I'm sure the other scribes will come up with some ideas for you.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
 |
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 19:41:58
|
Kinda sounds like the Mirror of Opposition from 1e and 2e. I'm not sure if that item has been updated for 3/3.5e though.
But the mirror makes a copy of anything that it reflects and the copy immediately attacks the being that the copy is of. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 19:43:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
I have a group of people who loves min-maxing. And that makes me want to throw unexpected things at them. I have this idea of a cursed mirror that makes an evil incorporeal copy of everyone who looks into it. The copy will be set on killing the real person and take over the body. Is there any existing rules for something like that? I'm also wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to make the copies slightly weaker, otherwise this will probably turn into a slaughter.
That would be a mirror of opposition then. It creates an exact (at that specific time they see themselves in it) duplicate, so items carried, spells memorised, curses carried, spells currently active, HP's etc).
Alternatively have a BBG from a previous encounter who survived the attacks from the PC's and fled, retrieve blood/skin from that battle and clone them - that way they will be similar in levels/hp/skills etc but not exactly the same as equipment would vary as would abilites the players have gained since that encounter (a level or two ago perhaps?).
Personally I prefer the second option, as the the clones can cause all sorts of problems for the PC's before they finally get to meet them (and resolve the 'issue'). I can think of lots of campaign hooks from having 'free-willed' clones who are the exact opposite of the players wandering around and causing mayhem  
Just my thoughts
Damian
|
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 03 May 2008 19:44:53 |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 22:50:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
I have a group of people who loves min-maxing. And that makes me want to throw unexpected things at them. I have this idea of a cursed mirror that makes an evil incorporeal copy of everyone who looks into it. The copy will be set on killing the real person and take over the body. Is there any existing rules for something like that? I'm also wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to make the copies slightly weaker, otherwise this will probably turn into a slaughter.
If you want to make them really really really scared: see if you can find the old 1st edition module Ravager of Time. Not only do they face their copies, but they will do so as old men and women while their copies are young! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 23:09:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
I have a group of people who loves min-maxing. And that makes me want to throw unexpected things at them. I have this idea of a cursed mirror that makes an evil incorporeal copy of everyone who looks into it. The copy will be set on killing the real person and take over the body. Is there any existing rules for something like that? I'm also wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to make the copies slightly weaker, otherwise this will probably turn into a slaughter.
Instead of making this just a mirror of opposition, what about this for an idea. The PCs have alternate reality versions of themselves from an alternate timeline. These adventurers have done horrible things in their own alternate timeline, and are on the run. Eventually then manage to find the Plane of Mirrors.
While in the Plane of Mirrors, the alternate timeline that the "evil" PCs come from collapse and they can't go back, as their time no longer exists. So they start spying on other realities to see how they can get out of the plane of Mirrors.
Eventually they spy on the PCs, and the final mirror that the "evil" PCs come through is just the last place that the evil PCs have set up as their entry point into this world, hoping to kill off and take over the PCs, as their alternate reality bodies cannot exist in the same place at the same time as the PCs.
One factor that might make the copies less powerful is simply the fact that one or more members of the "evil" party might actually be scheming against the others. This is his chance to finally be rid of his companions. Or, you can go the "Mirror Mirror Spock" route and have one of the "evil" PCs be naturally neutral (which really only works if one of the PCs is as well), and that PCs is more concerned with the repercussions of altering another timeline than surviving in another one, and he works against his own party.
Just some thoughts. Its an interesting proposition. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36787 Posts |
|
|
Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 09:02:07
|
| Thanks! So much potential fun here. I think I will make a quest of finding this cursed mirror and then save the copies until they level up once or twice, it will probably be the best solution. |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 13:44:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heh, don't forget the goatees! 
Well of course, alternate evil realities always spawn goatees! I think that's called Roddenberry's Law or some such. |
|
|
|
Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 14:43:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heh, don't forget the goatees!
Well of course, alternate evil realities always spawn goatees! I think that's called Roddenberry's Law or some such.
And perhaps you should do tattoo or two too.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzaní
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 17:57:22
|
Can't they have the goatees tattooed on?
would look weird on gals tho... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 01:52:46
|
The idea of one's "evil self" coming after you is creepy. Go for it!
As for the Mirror of Opposition, wasn't there one of those in the Undermountain? I remember having to deal with a mirror like that in the NWN: Hordes of the Underdark game (part of which took place in the Undermountain). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 May 2008 01:54:12 |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:06:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
As for the Mirror of Opposition, wasn't there one of those in the Undermountain? I remember having to deal with a mirror like that in the NWN: Hordes of the Underdark game (part of which took place in the Undermountain).
Indeed there is one in the Undermountain source material. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:07:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
As for the Mirror of Opposition, wasn't there one of those in the Undermountain? I remember having to deal with a mirror like that in the NWN: Hordes of the Underdark game (part of which took place in the Undermountain).
Indeed there is one in the Undermountain source material. :)
Ah, then that's where the one in the CRPG came from. Thanks. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
|
|
freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 12:39:19
|
Sounds like the ST mirror universe is winning out, but...
If anyone is still looking for the 3e mirror of opposition, it's in the DMG/SRD (see here |
My DnD Links and Creations |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36787 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 14:24:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by freyar
Sounds like the ST mirror universe is winning out, but...
If anyone is still looking for the 3e mirror of opposition, it's in the DMG/SRD (see here
This gives me an idea, but I'm going to avoid thread-jacking by going to a different thread with it... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 20:36:30
|
I was going to mention this earlier...
There is a version of the mirror of opposition in Lands of Intrigue or Calimport which has a unique effect. If one spends too much time looking in it (it needs time to start up), a perfect foe is created from the mirror. One which is not exactly the moral ethical opposite of the being looking in.
The example they gave was a Lolth Matron. She looks in the mirror and her opposite could be a female high priest of Elistraee, a CE archmage male, or a female sun elf wizard-warrior of Corelleon.
It becomes an equal to the watcher who has the urge to destroy the original so they can continue existing, as well as the difference of ideology of the original. Also copy and original can detect each other with in a certain distance, making the fighting more intense.
I'll see if I can look it up later. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Need help: evil copies of the players
