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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 09:06:46
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My question is a simple one, but I expect will not have a simple answer, if one at all. Has the Reghed Glacier been in retreat since 1370 DR, thereby leaving Evermelt 'high and dry' in the moraine?
I ask this because the westernmost ice front of the glacier is far further west and south on the The North map, than on the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms map.
If this is the case, it also poses some complications for anyone still wanting to enrich themselves from Icingdeath's hoard, however that is not my primary concern. I merely wish to make sure of the position of Evermelt.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 13:45:06
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Keep in mind that the 3E map had a lot of empty spaces removed and condensed. Having too much open land was for some reason considered a bad thing.  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 15:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Keep in mind that the 3E map had a lot of empty spaces removed and condensed. Having too much open land was for some reason considered a bad thing.
And now they want all that space back (ie. "Faerun is too developed"). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 15:30:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Keep in mind that the 3E map had a lot of empty spaces removed and condensed. Having too much open land was for some reason considered a bad thing.
IIRC they wanted to squeeze the entire Map of Faerun into a different format as well, thereby moving parts slightly here and twisting and banding other parts there.
This resulted in various wierd things. Just to name one that I came across very resently: the village of Wheloon in Cormyr being suddenly furhter to the north and east than before and the roads course was changed too to still go through the village.
Your obsavation about the Reghed Glacier and Evermelt most likely results from this map change as well.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 15:32:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Keep in mind that the 3E map had a lot of empty spaces removed and condensed. Having too much open land was for some reason considered a bad thing.
And now they want all that space back (ie. "Faerun is too developed").
Yeah, it's kind of ironic that now anything that went before is bad, unless it's the special baby of one of the members of the 4E team. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 18:34:10
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Talk about going WAY off-topic.
I hate 4e as much as the next guy, but we have enough threads for that.
The answer to your question is NO - officialy, THAT glacier is NOT in retreat (as of any canon source). Pelvuria IS in retreat, which is why Vassa has appeared 'from the ice' as of the 1e CS. The High Ice is also in retreat, probably do to icey winds no longer coming down from once-nearby Pelvuria (which extends all the way north), and also in part from the Phaerimm's 'life draining' magics no longer taking their toll. Also, I believe the Shades 'did something' to help further melt the northern ice (to create moisture in the air, I believe, to revitalize Anauroch). Not entirely positive there, because I avoided that particular novel series.
The maps, as several people have mentioned, do indeed show the ice further from the settled regions, but that was primarily do to the vast changes made to the maps between editions. Those changes did NOT happen 'in game', and therefore never got an explanation. Because of that, you should assume the new position of the Reghed Glacier is 'where it always was', and the earlier maps were somewhat incorrect.
However, considering the ice is indeed retreating across other northern (and mountaintop) Glaciers, and all of that ice is really connected and part of a much larger ice-field (the north pole), you can easily say that the Reghed Glacier is also losing some ground as well, in your game, if that is your wish. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2008 : 11:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Because of that, you should assume the new position of the Reghed Glacier is 'where it always was', and the earlier maps were somewhat incorrect.
However, considering the ice is indeed retreating across other northern (and mountaintop) Glaciers, and all of that ice is really connected and part of a much larger ice-field (the north pole), you can easily say that the Reghed Glacier is also losing some ground as well, in your game, if that is your wish.
If you look at this small map of Icewind Dale, would you advise I put Evermelt somewhere in the green circle as on the lefthand map, or somewhere in the purple circle with the Reghed Glacier extended -- but in retreat for five or so years since 1370 DR -- as on the righthand map?
Edit 1: Cleaned up the URL. |
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Edited by - Kyrene on 26 Jul 2008 15:44:02 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 19:52:24
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Who modified the second one? Nicely done. 
Anyhow, if it were me, I would say the second one, because it fits better with the story, which took place BEFORE the maps were modified in 3e.
I'm a HUGE proponent of 'putting things back the way the were' , by modding the 3e maps to better fit with the older ones.
Also, the second map appears to be a very nice compromise, showing some melting, while still maintaining the crucial part near Ten Towns. I think I will most certainly use that on the newer version of the North map I'm doing. I'm not an official source or anything, but whenever I run into discrepencies between 2e and 3e locales, I try to 'split the difference', and that second map there is an excellent example of that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 May 2008 00:12:54 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 10:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Who modified the second one? Nicely done.
Anyhow, if it were me, I would say the second one, because it fits better with the story, which took place BEFORE the maps were modified in 3e.
I'm a HUGE proponent of 'putting things back the way the were' , by modding the 3e maps to better fit with the older ones.
Also, the second map appears to be a very nice compromise, showing some melting, while still maintaining the crucial part near Ten Towns.
I can at times be very handy with my Paint Shop Pro and layers.  I blame my wife, the real artist in our family. Compromise is often by neccessity.  I didn't want to also 'lift and clean' the word "Reghed", and that forced the shape of the added glacier to a large extent.  Lazyness I know...
quote:
I think I will most certainly use that on the newer version of the North map I'm doing. I'm not an official source or anything, but whenever I run into descrepencies between 2e and 3e locales, I try to 'split the difference', and that second map there is an excellent example of that.
You are welcome to have/use my original master copy to work from. Once I JPEG, it loses a little bit of definition. I shall publish a link to the completed map in an edit/new post to this thread when I get home this afternoon.
Edit 1: Since I've been lucky enough that nobody has replied since I last wrote here, here is the edit with the links:
For the Sword Coast North map (including Neverwinter Nights 2 locations)
For the Sword Coast North map (only canon locations)
Please Note: these are merely my interpretation of places of interest, geographical locations and civilized settlements using the WotC 3rd Edition map and merging in the relevant The North elements.
Edit 2: Cleaned up the URLs now that I know how. |
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Edited by - Kyrene on 26 Jul 2008 15:43:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 00:16:25
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| Thank you for the links - very nicely done. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2008 : 21:13:57
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| Agreed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 16:04:58
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Just a quick update, since I have also now added elements from the City of Splendors FORGOTTEN REALMSŪ Web Enhancement: Environs of Waterdeep. This has meant that the locations of Amphail village and Goldenfields has changed, as well as the Waterdeep-Red Larch section of the Long Road. Westwood is now also back on the map.
Please Note: these are merely my interpretation of places of interest, geographical locations and civilized settlements using the WotC 3rd Edition map and merging in the relevant The North and Environs of Waterdeep elements. I consider the scope of these maps to be anything north and west of the Long Road and lower River Dessarin. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 18:36:50
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I'll have to check that out - I was unaware that they had been moved.
When I completed the terrain of my North Map, I used your Glacial outline - very nce. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Reghed Glacier and Evermelt
