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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 11:02:18
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Dear folks!
I have a question concerning the War Wizrad PrC (p. 40 et seq. Magig of Faerun).
As I read and understand this PrC it focuses much on the offensive part of a Wizard (with Evocation nd Transmutation spells).
Could you imagine a War Wizard that focuses on the protective part of the troops as well, using mainly spells of the Abjuration school?!
Would a War Wizard maybe specialize in Counter-Magics?
If so, do you see need to modify the PrC Requirements?
Any thoughts on this would be highly appreciated.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 10 Apr 2008 11:09:48
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 15:32:53
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Well, it gives a Weapon Focus, which could be used on rays or touch spells or what have you, then it's just metamagic feats and widen spell plus enhanced spell area.
Doesn't seem like it's too combat oriented, though I guess one could select extend and then a "enhanced spell duration" (x2 duration for extend, x3 duration for "enhanced spell duration") if one were looking for a better buffer (it'd probably be more useful for divination magic too, though divination magic might benefit from enlarge and "enhanced spell range")
But basically, if the metamagic feat is only a one slot bump then it seems like it wouldn't be unbalancing. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 18:30:20
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| Honestly, given what the PrC does, its pretty clear that there are a lot of War Wizards that don't have that PrC. While I'm sure that there are War Wizards that closely work with Purple Dragons in larger scale battles, most of them are securing the realm on a more personal level, scanning minds and investigating plots. In that regard, I'd say a good number of War Wizards are skilled in divination and enchantment magic. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 18:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'd say a good number of War Wizards are skilled in divination and enchantment magic.
Especially given the focus on mind-reading in the novels. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 18:47:00
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| That prestige class doesn't seem to me to have much to do with the War Wizards at all. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 19:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'd say a good number of War Wizards are skilled in divination and enchantment magic.
Especially given the focus on mind-reading in the novels.
Every time I read the description of Probe Thoughts I think of a War Wizard . . .  |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 19:19:38
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I certainly agree that the PrC doesn't reflect the War Wizard lore very well, it seems like the idea was to create a caster than can be an artillery piece. Which certainly has its place but isn't really what the War Wizards are, which in my mind is very much more like the FBI than the military (which, in Cormyr, isn't as specifically divided as it is in the US)
... Wow, in doing a little looking I found that widen was a 3 level increase, not a 1, so it might bear a closer look as to what other metamagic could substitute.
Regardless, with some divination spells it'd work well to have them widened, unfortunately most of the ones I took a quick look at are cone, which isn't effected by widen.
But, my main point is, the PrC could be modified pretty easily to focus on different styles, rather than the straight blaster, so it seems pretty useful overall. Of course, I say this without much experience modifying classes or PrCs, so I might be totally wrong. ;) |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 00:26:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Dear folks!
I have a question concerning the War Wizrad PrC (p. 40 et seq. Magig of Faerun).
As I read and understand this PrC it focuses much on the offensive part of a Wizard (with Evocation nd Transmutation spells).
Could you imagine a War Wizard that focuses on the protective part of the troops as well, using mainly spells of the Abjuration school?!
Would a War Wizard maybe specialize in Counter-Magics?
If so, do you see need to modify the PrC Requirements?
Any thoughts on this would be highly appreciated.
The War Weaver PrC from the "Heroes of Battle" offers a buffer/abjurer five level class that fits well the role of "wizard protector of troops"; I went further in one campaign and took all five levels of War Wizard AND War Weaver... it was a pretty versatile caster, in offense or defense! 
As for a wizard specialized in "countering magic", have any good old wizard take the Improved Counterspel and Reactive Counterspell feats. You'll have a guy in the back of the party cancelling one incoming spell per round, therefore saving a lot of time to the party (i.e. countered fireball = less damage to party = less divine magic wasted on curing = party keeps going longer without resting all the time...) |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 00:30:17
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Honestly, given what the PrC does, its pretty clear that there are a lot of War Wizards that don't have that PrC. While I'm sure that there are War Wizards that closely work with Purple Dragons in larger scale battles, most of them are securing the realm on a more personal level, scanning minds and investigating plots. In that regard, I'd say a good number of War Wizards are skilled in divination and enchantment magic.
The Unseen Seer PrC from "Complete Mage" fits the role of the "mind reaming War Wizard" and "monitor of traitorous nobles and criminal War Wizard" to a tee! It's a mage PrC that specializes in gathering information via the Gather Info skill, divination, and stealth. You even get sneak attack die increases with it... 10-level PrC too, which means transferable to Epic levels... :P |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 00:59:16
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It doesn't surprise me that the Purple Dragon Knight's put some thought into this.  |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 03:56:23
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 08:49:40
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Thanks for your thoughts so far and many many thanks to PDK for bringing the other suitable PrC to my mind. I have lost track of the most of them with all those additional books floating around.
I will check out both - the War Weaver and the Unseen Seer.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 11 Apr 2008 15:03:40 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 15:40:02
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The War Weaver was not so appealing to me. I can see their usefulness for armies in general but they seem not very much related or comparable with the War Wizard PrC as presented in MoF.
The Unseen Seer PrC on the other hand is very much like I could picture a War Wizrad to be like as far as the divination powers and information gathering is concerned. However, that PrC is overall a little much too 'roguish' for my taste. However, it is an iteresting prestigeclass to work with when remodeling the War Wizard. I will get back to this one most definitly.
While going through the sourcebooks I stumbled over the the Abjurant Champion in Complete Mage. this is also something I could truly see in the ranks of the War Wizards, esp. with the focus on Abjuration Magic that I was looking for. Any thoughts on this?
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 18:59:52
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Another question concerning the special power of War Wizards:
At 3rd Lvl they get Widen Spell (+50% to spells radius)
At 5th Lvl they get Enhance Spell Area (increases spell's radius from 50% granted by Widen Spell to 100%)
However, according to the newer version of Widen Spell, this power already increases the spell by 100%. Anyone knows if this has offically changed the power of 'Enhance Spell Area' and how? |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 19:21:06
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I'd just do it like this;
Widen Spell + 100% to area (x2 original area)
Enhanced Spell area + 200% to area (x3 original area)
You could go a further 100% increase off the widened ability, but that might just get too big. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 21:08:26
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I'd just do it like this;
Widen Spell + 100% to area (x2 original area)
Enhanced Spell area + 200% to area (x3 original area)
You could go a further 100% increase off the widened ability, but that might just get too big.
Thanks for your help on this one. However, I did not included it in my first shot on the new War Wizard variant. Take a look everyone. Feedback esp. about overpowering the PrC and concerning the feel of the War Wizard is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
PRESTIGE CLASS: THE WAR WIZARD OF CORMYR (VARIANT)
Hit Die: d4
REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a War Wizard a character must fulfil all the following criteria.
Alignment: any non evil, non chaotic.
Skills: Spellcraft 10 ranks.
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency (any), any two of the following: Enlarge Spell, Energy Substitution, Extent Spell, Spell Focus (any), Widen Spell.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 4th-level arcane spells.
Special: Must be Cormyrean or must have Cormyrean relatives up to the 7th grade, in his family; must have a sponsoring mage.
CLASS SKILLS
The War Wizards class skills (and the key ability for each) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4: Skills in the PHB for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier
CLASS FEATURES
All the following (table 1.1) are class features of the Blade.
TABLE 1.1: THE WAR WIZARD
CL BAB F/R/W Special Spells per day
1st +0 +2/+0/+2 Weapon Focus, +1 level of existing class
2nd +1 +3/+0/+3 Sudden metamagic, +1 level of existing class
3rd +1 +3/+/+3 Bonus Feat, +1 level of existing class
4th +2 +4/+1/+4 Sudden metamagic, +1 level of existing class
5th +2 +4/+1/+4 Sudden metamagic, +1 level of existing class
Weapon and Armor proficiency: War Wizards gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells: At each level beyond 1st, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (increased familiar powers, metamagic or item creation feat, and so on). If you had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a War Wizard, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.
Weapon Focus: The War Wizard gains a free Weapon Focus feat for a martial weapon of her choice. She must be proficient with that weapon in order to apply this feat to it.
Bonus Feat: War Wizards focus their studies of spellcasting efficiency. In order to achieve that end, they develop further expertise in the arcane art. At 3rd level, the War Wizard gains a bonus feat. This feat may be a metamagic feat or Spell Focus on any school of her choice.
Sudden metamagics (Su):
Part of the War wizards training involves study of the essence of magic. In her training, she learns to adapt to rapidly changing conditions of the battlefield, as any spell of her can be the crucial one. Although she may prepare some of her spells with metamagic feats, sometimes she needs to modify a spell on the spur of the moment. Depending of the metamagic feats she has already mastered she may choose one of the following enhanced spellcasting techniques at 2nd, 4th and 5th level.
Sudden Enlarged Spell: A War Wizard may cast spells as if she had applied the Extend Spell feat to them but without preparing this in advance and without any change in level or casting time. To choose this power the War Wizard must have taken the metamagic feat Enlarge Spell.
Sudden Extended Spell: A War Wizard may cast spells as if she had applied the Extend Spell feat to them but without preparing this in advance and without any change in level or casting time. To choose this power the War Wizard must have taken the metamagic feat Extent Spell.
Sudden Substitution: A War Wizard may cast spells as if she had applied the Energy Substitution feat to them but without preparing this in advance and without any change in level or casting time. To choose this power the War Wizard must have taken the metamagic feat Energy Substitution.
Sudden Swift Spell: A War Wizard may cast spells as a swift action, as if you had applied the Quicken Spell feat to them but without preparing this in advance and without any change in level. The maximum level of spell she can quicken in this way is equal to half her class level (rounded up). However, this requires that the War Wizard has a special insight into the spell she is casting this way. Therefore she may only cast those spell as a Sudden Swift Spell, which belongs to a school she has focused on (taken the Spell Focus feat on). The Quicken Spell feat it not required.
Sudden Widened Spell: A War Wizard may cast spells as if she had applied the Widen Spell feat to them but without preparing this in advance and without any change in level or casting time. To choose this power the War Wizard must have taken the metamagic feat Widen Spell.
The War Wizard can use the enhanced spellcasting powers a number of times equal to half her class level (rounded down) + her Charisma bonus (if any, with a minimum uses of 1/day no matter what her level and even with a negative Charisma modifier). The use of any known sudden metamagics counts against that daily limit.
Special Conversion Notes:
This Prestige Class was inspired by the PrC ‘War Wizard’ found in the 3rd Ed. Sourcebooks Magic of Faerun. Modifications were inspired by the PrC ‘Abjurant Champion’ from Complete Mage and the feats from the sourcebook Complete Arcane and worked out with the Players Handbook 3.5 and the Dungeon Master Guide 3.0.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 03:11:48
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I'm interested in a bit of a reversal ... 2E-styled rules for Red Wizards.
Are there canon 2E spells which duplicate wizard tattoo magic and such stuff? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 23:57:40
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| The 2nd-level spell create enchanted tattoos is in Spellbound. |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2010 : 10:21:35
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I would say the base class Beguiler (PHB II) is a good misdirector/enchanter/illusionist/etc. type, which would work well for this concept! The class works ESPECIALLY well with a dip into Mindbender (Complete Arcane) with the Mindsight feat (Lords of Madness), and this would make the class really, really, REALLY good at information gathering / scouting and such... also the prestige class Visionary Seeker (Planar Handbook) helps five spells on the Beholder spell list.
Are War Wizards ever associated with the Shadow Weave?
Also, most of the prestige classes that the classic 'Killer Gnome Shadowcraft Illusionist' build uses are FR classes -- have the sorts of abilities that the build uses ever been talked about in FR lore, anywhere?
If you all aren't familiar with that, it's here:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872354/Shadowcraft_Mage_Handbook
with the original build here:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864158/Shadowcraft_Illusionist_=_Killer_Gnome!
Is anything like this sort of expertise in illusions that happen to also be real ever talked about or shown in FR lore? |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 28 Nov 2010 10:29:36 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2010 : 10:56:04
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Reds are big on blasting, though. Bit of an affinity for Kossuth, Myrkul/Xvim/Bane, Mystra Velsharoon. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
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Ralderick Hallowshaw
Acolyte
Italy
36 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2010 : 13:02:04
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Very good stuff, thank you Ergdusch!
I suggest another feat which seems appropriate to me: extraordinary spell aim, found in Complete Adventurer. |
"Adventurers are best used to slay monsters. Sooner or later, they become your worst monsters, and you have to hire new ones to do the obvious thing" - Ralderick Hallowshaw, Jester - from To Rule A Realm, From Turret To Midden, published circa The Year of the Bloodbird
And forgive me for my bad use of English language!  |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2010 : 15:07:13
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That's a problem I have with 3E. Organizations that incorporate alot of aspects that have a PrC associated with them. Using the topic as an example, I don't think every War Wizard of Cormyr has levels in the PrC. I think there are all sorts of wizards, utilizing all the schools (even Necromancy) in the organization. I think a few that see combat more often are the ones that have levels in War Wizard. Take the War Weaver PrC from Heroes of Battle, that class has a lot more versatility and useful application of buff spells and battle-field magic than a War Wizard PrC. Not everything has to be *BANG! POW! EXPLOSIONS!!!"
What I'd really like to see is an organization/guild write up about the War Wizards and have benefits tied into that organization. If you have levels in such-and-such PrCs, your score increases and they have ranks and so forth. THAT to me, is what we should've seen more of.
Honestly Ergdusch, if you want a mage that focuses on protective magic, buffing allies, and utilizing the abjuration school then I'd either go War Weaver or Abjuratn Champion (Complete Mage) and just say you in the organization of the War Wizards of Cormyr. |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 08:29:05
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| Also Master Specialist: Abjuration would work if you want to be good at Abjuration. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 23:37:41
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I thank you for your input, all. Even if it is resurrecting a fairly old scroll from 2008.
I have actually never used any PrC variant for the War Wizards of Cormyr in my game. I reconcidered the idea behind the War Wizards and, just like Diffan wrote, thought them to be more like an organization with all kinds of wizards/specialists/magic using Prcs participating in it. Therefore I never proposed the original or my modified version of the War Wizards PrC to my players as a game option or introduced them as such into my game as NPCs. I rather used the entire width of magic-using classes to represent the different needs of this vast and widespread part of cormyrian lawkeepers.And all wizards in game stayed pure wizards with no PrC whatsoever (and surprisingly all were more than reluctant towards the War Wizards of Cormyr andnever joined their ranks!)
Just to let you know,
Ergdusch
BTW, if anyone did a write-up of the War Wizards organization structure as Diffan proposes, I'd like to see it. I've never come around to do it myself. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 05:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
BTW, if anyone did a write-up of the War Wizards organization structure as Diffan proposes, I'd like to see it. I've never come around to do it myself.
You know, I'll see what I can whip up. I'm off tomorrow and could spend an hour or two coming up with the specifics. I'll post what I've got and we can go further. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 05:17:43
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| I might take a shot at it, too Ergdush. I had a pretty detailed PrC written up for a character that I never played. Let me see if I can dig it up. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Different Variant of War Wizards?
