| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 17:41:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Xoriat
1. What exactly is the dream vestige? Is it something that can be found in a monster manual somewhere? The fact that Bareris could affect with his singing seemed kind of...rushed, or tacked on somehow. Which brings me to my next question...
It's in Libris Mortis. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
 |
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 19:35:56
|
Kaje: You are, of course, correct as to where info on the dream vestige can be found.
Xoriat: Glad you enjoyed the book. Kaje answered question 1. I'll take a crack at the others.
2. When a dream vestige kills you, it essentially turns you undead and incorporates you into itself. The dream vestige killed Bareris, but he was killing it at the same time. The result was that he wound up undead, but not absorbed into the dream vestige. You can think of him as a zombie if you want, because he still has a physical body, but he still has his mind and free will, also. He's like certain of the higher-level corporeal undead you'll find in the various monster sourcebooks.
3. On second look, I see that this isn't a question as such, but rather an observation, so moving on to...
4. Bane gave Szass Tam a clear understanding of the altered laws of magic, in flux because of the Spellplague. He gave him the telepathic ability to share this understanding with his magic-using followers. This was a big advantage when the Southern wizards were having trouble getting their magic to work under the new conditions.
Bane also gave Szass an infusion of raw mystical strength.
He didn't specifically give Szass the ability to conjure up a dream vestige, but Szass probably wouldn't have been able to manage it without the gifts he did receive. |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 19:50:46
|
Hey Richard, a pair of questions for you:
1) I know that, at least when it was destroyed by the Tuigan, the Griffon Legion numbered 600 (each griffon having a pilot and a mage). Obviously it's been rebuilt once or twice since then, but the numbers I've seen tend to hover around 300. So, when you were writting the story, how large did you figure the griffon legion was? It's never explicitly stated anywhere and I'm curious. (As an aside, I don't care if you upped the numbers to suit the story, since it would make sense for their to have been heavy recruitment in the years leading up to the war anyway). As a follow-up, how many do you figure were still alive at the start of Undead?
2) There's been some attacking of the way the final battle was handled over on the WotC boards and, while I've been generally defending how you wrote it, one criticism did make some sense: why didn't the necromancers make a greater effort to blast holes in the southern ships? I figure that's exactly what they were trying to do both in the air and underwater, but were stalemated by the remnants of the Griffon Legion and summoned monsters (good scene with Nevron, btw), but at least in the magical duel part, you'd think they had the upper hand. I'm curious about what your feeling on this is. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2008 : 22:51:50
|
1. I figured the Griffin Legion had several hundred members at the start of the war, maybe three to four hundred at the start of Undead. Just between you and me and anybody else who happens to read this, this is the kind of detail I tend to leave vague lest I inadvertently trip myself up.
2. People can talk about fiction again on the WotC boards? How long has this been going on? I pretty much stopped reading them when they banned discussion of the novels.
Anyway, necromancers aren't necessarily big hurlers of fireballs and thunderbolts. But still, of course, one aspect of the sea battle was mages trying to blow holes in the hulls of the opposing ships, and sometimes these efforts were successful. Other times, various countermeasures kept them from working. If I didn't mention this (and I guess I didn't), you have to realize that every bit of the book is written in limited third-person point of view, not omniscient point of view. So you're reading what a particular character is noticing at a particular moment.
Now, even so, I suppose I could make certain to mention every move that every combatant is making in a big, complicated battle scene. But you know, I catch flak from people who think my fight scenes are too long and detailed as it is, so I'm not sure that's a winning strategy. |
|
|
|
Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 02:11:26
|
Finished "Undead" and have to say that it proved an interesting and enjoyable read.
A couple of thoughts/questions:
1. The boneyard fight - I think it was a good demonstration of the nature of the warfare being conducted by Tam's forces (at the irregular level) during this period of the war - similar to the raiding of the Griffon Legion.
2. The naval battle - were the Council's forces undertaking a fighting withdrawal during the battle? (This is the impression I had and/or at least that the majority of the ships didn't actually engage significantly)
3. Malark's treachery was interesting - and seems to me (logically and consistently) to put aside the idea that Tam's Thay will become undead - Malark seems to detest the undead and I can't see what could convince him to join Tam if his plan was to turn everyone undead - so I conclude it has to be something even more interesting.
4. Bane's intervention and the deal was interesting too - Tam doesn't seem too concerned by the 1,000 year pact for his soul - this leads me to suggest that his plan has something to do with his own immortality (perhaps he raises himself to godhood somehow?) so as to thwart Bane - isn't there an opening for a new god of necromancy?
5. The Council is in a very bad way - they have openly assassinated at least 1 of their own members (Zola) and its implied that 1 other (can't recall the name) was killed too so their unity is compromised. I can't envisage a scenario where they could retake Thay in the present circumstances outside of the destruction of Tam.
6. Flass seems to be dead - wasn't she married to the ruler of Mulmaster? (Or have I missed the divorce?) - has this factor been taken into account in the story?
7. I sincerely hope that Bareris doesn't become an instrument for a "revenge of lost love" plot cliche.
I'd like to hear the views of others if you have the time.
|
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 02:28:12
|
That's sorta what I figured, and kudos to you for walking the tightrope of writing a compelling novel and not stepping on too many toes.
As for the WotC boards, it's still technically against the rules to discuss novels, but they seem to have relaxed in the enforcement. Or at least gotten even more random in their enforcement. Over there you can never tell. But the thread's about the civil war in Thay, so discussion of your books is a major part. It's also been going since Unclean came out, and no one's stepped in yet.
I'm not sure I'd recommend checking it out, though. It's sort of, well, degenerated in the last page or so, primarily due to an argument between me and another guy. He thinks the ending of Undead is childish (because there's obviously no way a bard could defeat a divinely-powered epic spell). I disagree (since the monster had only one weakness, which one of Our Heroes managed to successfully attack). Unfortunately, he wasn't very polite (or at least didn't phrase his replies to avoid offense), I refuted, and we've reached the arguing over semantics stage, so I'll be bowing out later tonight.
If, however, you find that sort of thing amusing, it's the "Civil War in Thay" thread in "Faerunian People and Places." |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 03:35:10
|
Theo: Glad you liked the book.
The Council's fleet certainly wanted to get away, but Szass Tam forced them to fight, and many of them did. But ships that weren't fitted for war (and as you may recall, a number of them weren't) naturally tried to stay out of the worst of it.
Dmitra was indeed married to the ruler of Mulmaster. But as near as I could make out from reading the sourcebooks, he wasn't much of a factor in her life (they mostly lived apart), and thus he's conspicuous by his absence in the trilogy as well. I figure he's got his own business to take care of without immersing himself and his realm in the craziness of the Thayan civil war.I hope nobody really wanted to see him show up.
Hoon: Thanks for the warning. If there's stuff on the WotC boards that would bruise my fragile ego, maybe I'm better off avoiding them. I'd rather talk to people here, where posters tend to be friendly even if what they have to tell a writer is not that, in their opinion, he banged out a flawless and magnificent classic that will still be read and cherished a thousand years hence. Although you know, if anyone is actually moved to tell me that, feel free. I can take it. |
|
|
|
Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 04:18:20
|
Mr Byers
Thanks for your response. Looking forward to the next instalment. 
P.S. Don't give up hope. People are still reading "Beowulf" (and making movies based on it too!) - and thats over a 1,000 years old  |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2008 : 21:02:11
|
Since you've already found us, I would say you aren't missing anything by not wandering over there. I post on both, but am constantly reminded of why I prefer CK.
I know you're not going to comment, since you've been consistant in not doing so in the past, but I did want to let you know that I noticed how nicely you wrapped things up at the end of Undead. Now that I've seen the transition between Unclean and Undead, I'm convinced there will be another time jump between Undead and Unholy, taking us to an already-established Zulkirs-in-exile and Thay-under-Tam, and I'm curious how long you intend to make that jump. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 01:26:37
|
First things first...Loved the book!
There was a definite pang of fear (for me)when the Spellplague hit, but, even though I hate the whole idea of it, it didn´t really matter a lick as far as the novel´s and plot´s quality are concerned. Quality stuff, there. Now to some individual points...
1. I´ve said it before, and I´ll say it again, you, along with Paul Kemp, are among the foremost at writing "dark" characters, plots and settings. I disagree with some other opinions voiced, as for me this novel (and "Unclean") feature the strongest and best descriptions of Thay, the Zulkirs and their machinations. Vastly prefer "this" Lauzoril, since I actually disliked "The Simbul´s Gift" (different strokes for different folks I guess) and finally a Szass Tam worthy of Szass Tam again. Extremely compelling characters, of whom I´m actually afraid of dying, though they´re all "bad guys". Actually I fear more for Tam than Bareris...hmm.
2. Libris Mortis and most of the monsters therein actually didn´t appeal to me when I bought it, yet you managed to make them work fantastically in the novel, which lead me to re-evaluate the book and turn me around on some (not an easy task I can assure you). Put that one down to the "dark style".
3. The Bareris/Tammith plot actually surprised me. I was afraid it would become one of the "can he finally find it in himself to kill her"-plots, so to see the reconcile and "work something out" as a welcome surprise, and i believe you managed to depict the fatality and sheer desperation of their relationship really well. The words, when he compares the river and the trickle of water is the most beautiful sequence of sentences in the novel for me.
4. Only thing I´m a bit dubious about was the summoning of Bane (although the audacity of it fits Tam to a T for me), but I´m quite certain that everything still in question will be revealed in the trilogy´s finale. Very interested in what Tam´s ultimate goal is (which should also explain how he turned Malark to his side).
And although I don´t plan on neither incorporating the Spellplague into my campaign, nor buying any of the source material of 4E, I´ll definitely continue buying the novels as long as they´re quality.
PS: At the rate a certain someone is going through his Griffons, you should consider naming one of them Daisyeyes (if you´ve ever read Jeff Grubb´s Finder-trilogy). |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 02:30:53
|
| Glad you liked it, DA. |
|
|
|
Jodes_Quenthal
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 05:36:03
|
Wow, I'm really excited about Unholy. I read through Unholy and Undead extremely fast which is a good sign. I really don't know what direction Richard will go, but I'm definitely involved. Bareris and Mirror are going back into the wastelands of Thay. The council and living people of Thay seem to be stuck in the western border of Thay letting Szass Tam and his army basically take over the rest of Thay for themselves. Then you have the hidden goal of Szass Tam still mysteriously wavering beneath the entire plot. I like Malark because he's not invincible, but he's so experienced through his immortality that he's become as cagey a fighter as they come. I could see how he and Szass Tam relate since they both seem to live more for the enjoyment of scheming out chaos since time doesn't effect them. I'm still wondering if Szass Tam is secretly obeying a higher power that hasn't been brought forward yet, maybe Larloch?
I'm curious as to how the rest of the Zulkirs will react, especially Nevron. He seems quite capable to hold his own and has similiar ambitions to acheive greatness beyond his immortality. Aoth and Brightwing I imagine will have a big part of whats to come.
I'm curious as to how the surrounding realms felt about the 10 year civil war, particulary Mulhorand and The Simbul in Algarond. I thought it would be an interesting twist if Mulhorand or Algarond made an attempt to join up with the council's army in hopes of stopping Szass Tam from expanding the undead invasion. I guess maybe it was a blessing for them for an evil nation to basically be too busy destroying themselves to bother with them, but it would definitely add a new fun dimension. |
May the Realms live on |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 15:03:25
|
I'm glad you enjoyed them, JQ.
You're absolutely right about the response of neighboring realms to the civil war. They were delighted to sit back and watch Thay tear itself apart, and saw no reason to take sides and expend their own resources. |
|
|
|
Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 13:41:37
|
Thanks for the kind words, Victor.
It makes me feel a little dumb, but actually, I don't know when Book 3 is coming out. At the start of the year, WotC asked if I could turn it in earlier than the original deadline specified, which would appear to mean that they intend to publish it sooner than originally intended. But they didn't tell me exactly when the new publication date will be, and I didn't think to ask.
I'll be turning in the initial draft of Book 3 in a week or two. When I email it in, I'll ask my editor when the book is due to hit the stores, and let you guys know what she says. |
|
|
|
Orn
Acolyte
Canada
12 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 21:28:56
|
I very much agree that Richard Lee Byers had an amazing talent in describing "dark" characters, plots and settings.
I've really enjoyed this series so far, and I'm very much looking forward to the conclusion (and beyond).
|
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 22:10:00
|
Well, I'm just barely past the part where Bane's avatar shows up in the Zulkir's Council. So far I really like it a lot. I know Tam doesn't know the full extent of what happened in the heavens, but I think he's gotta be tickled when he finds out that Velsharoon and Azuth got trapped in the astral. Of course, what is the astral where they're trapped as opposed to the new astral, etc..... has got to come up and be answered, hopefully it'll happen in the new campaign set.
My first thought was that Tam shouldn't be able to summon Bane, but then I assume its just an aspect of him (a Hortha of Bane using Narfellian summoning rituals?). I also found the agreement interesting, and maybe something is revealed later in the book for how Tam plans to get out of it. My first thoughts are that Tam intends to destroy Bane by destroying his followers (thus he won't have to hold up his end of the bargain). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 05:40:12
|
| Orn, Sleyvas, glad you're enjoying the story. |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 18:05:20
|
| For those who wanted to know: Unholy (Book 3 of The Haunted Land) is a February, 2009 release. |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 23:25:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
For those who wanted to know: Unholy (Book 3 of The Haunted Land) is a February, 2009 release.
Very cool! Now I know what to ask for my next birthday.(feb 9)
Ugh, its still 10 months away! Tam may be a deity by then! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 23:25:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
For those who wanted to know: Unholy (Book 3 of The Haunted Land) is a February, 2009 release.
Very cool! Now I know what to ask for my next birthday.(feb 9)
Ugh, its still 10 months away! Tam may be a deity by then! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
|
|
Ecap
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 06:50:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Xoriat: Glad you enjoyed the book.
Xingax is an atropal scion.
Undead isn't set during the Time of Troubles. It's set in 1485, the year of the Spellplague, when, in fact, Mystra does croak once again.
|
Sink or Swim |
|
|
|
Ecap
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 07:26:08
|
Ooops, I think I posted this in the wrong thread earlier. So I'm C+Ping my thoughts on this book here.
Wow, I happened to find this website by chance when I was googling book reviews for this very book, "undead". I had no idea there was such a following for forgotten realms books - that's great, I'm a huge fan!
I have always enjoyed reading recreationally, and I delved into the Forgotten Realms world in my very early adolescence and still read them to this day. I took a break for a while and indulged my myself with some King horror among other things, and I eventually ran out of material. Nostalgically, I picked up some of my old Forgotten REalms novels and re-read a couple.
Over the past couple years a lot of 'new' forgotten realms books have come out. I would notice these with their distinct, abstract artwork, the new forgotten realms heading insignia, etc. I was always hesitant to pick them up, worrying that it might tarnish my fanciful, aged notions of what the forgotten realms 'should be'.
In any case, on a lark one evening after studying @ barnes and noble, I picked up 'unclean' and 'undead' on a whim. Man... I am glad I did!!
These books really offered some refreshing characters. Particularly, the nobility of Bareris and Aoth being strained under the "corrosive culture" of Thay politic was so well-done. I loved the realism of the characters. How Thay was there homeland, despite its chronic troubles, and they thought it was beautiful and would fight for it.
And the bad guys are great! I loved Xingax in the first novel and was dissapointed to see less (if there was any?) narration from his perspective in the second book. Described as resembling an 'aborted baby fetus' his perspectives on life were very entertaining. And of course Szass Tam - I recall being exposed to him in an earlyer 'thayan' novel (and through forgotten realmsian anecdotes) and it was great to see him back in action! Ive always been a fan of him. I wanted to root for him so bad, but he was so devious, haha.
If I had to FORCE myself to complain about something in this book, it would be the two-dimensional zulkir personalities. I always feel like the zulkirs are slighted - these people are masters of their field of magic. Nevron was demented and interesting (especially his interactions with the demons), but a lot of the other characters seemed so petty. I would love to see evil zulkirs with debth and rationale!
Malark is a also one of my favorite characters. His immortality story was fascinating - and its always fun to see how he reacts to situations.
My only dissapointment is that apparently the third installment isn't out yet. I went back to barnes and noble to purchase it apparently its due in 2009? I want to know what happens before then
=(
Anyways I noticed that the author actually posts here!! If you read this GREAT job man, please keep pumping out FR literature and I promise I will keep buying! In fact, I'll pay extra for a signed copy!!
Cheers,
Ecap |
Sink or Swim |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 13:11:40
|
| Ecap: Thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed it. |
|
|
|
Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2008 : 09:00:06
|
So far I have loved the series.
I know this might be a bit of a spoiler for the third book, but what years does "Unholy" span? Does it start straight from the end of the previous book, or does it skip another ten years? |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2008 : 14:23:44
|
Talanfir: Glad to hear you're enjoying the books.
I'm going to pass on answering your question, though. Sorry. But I'm allergic to providing any sort of spoilers, even though in the Internet age, trying to keep the surprises in a novel surprising until the reader actually reads the book is often an exercise in futility. Particularly when the writer is working in a shared world, and the events of the novel are reflected in other products. |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 23:51:06
|
Slightly off topic, but I noticed that the anthology for this series is still listed as early 2010, which strikes me as really, really odd for a series that will have been done for a year at that point in time. I had thought earlier that this was a mistake, but if it was, they keep printing that date over and over again in various places.
Between Mirror and Malark, the secondary characters that were nice supporting characters in the first book really shot forward as major points of interest for me. I love Malark as a character, in part because I really like the Monks of the Long Death and its interesting to see a perspective character from that tradition.
I really like that Szass doesn't come across as a mustache twirling villain, or one that rages at his underlings and disintegrates them on a whim. He has a kind of detachment that is really refreshing in a villain, and its very different to see a villain that pretty much takes setbacks in stride, just pausing a moment to say, "oh well, that didn't work, time for plan B."
I really liked the personality traits that came out in all of the Zulkirs (and even if they all "go away" in the "current" Realms, its good to have the frame of reference for those of us that may not jump forward).
One of the things that I like about the protagonists in this series (mainly Aoth and Bareris) is that they aren't shining heroes, but they aren't angsty anti heroes either. They are exceptional, but not quite, I don't know, I hate to not term them heroic, but they are both too practical for that sort of designation. I like that we get a chance to see what "common people" from Thay think and feel, and not from the perspective of the nasty schemers in the nation.
I wasn't thrilled with Szass summoning Bane either, but at the same time, while the convention of Szass doing this didn't quite sit right, I did like how Bane himself was portrayed.
I will say this . . . if we got to dwell a little more on the edge of the Spellplauge, rather than just having a few books touch on them and shoot forward, I would have been a bit more interested in this particular setting aspect. RLB has done an excellent job of making this particular moment in Realms history interesting (even if the origin of the event still really, really rankles me). |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 05:53:49
|
Knight: The timing of the anthology has always struck me as a little odd, too, but then, what do I know? I'm merely a cog in a vast machine.
Anyway, thanks for your kind words about the book. |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 06:02:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Knight: The timing of the anthology has always struck me as a little odd, too, but then, what do I know? I'm merely a cog in a vast machine.
Anyway, thanks for your kind words about the book.
You keep putting out books like this, and I'll keep saying kind words about them . . . works out pretty well for me . . .  |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Undead: Chapters 6 - 11 & Epilogue
