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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Mar 2008 : 02:29:35
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Etheric question floating in spellbrasil rpg forum:
There is something new about the sharns and the phaerimms in the 4 edition? They are extincts?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2008 : 03:50:28
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They've prolly conveniently wiped each other out, to chuck a little more canon out the window.  |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2008 : 06:04:08
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One of the portions of the 'Year of the Ageless One' article notes that the phaerimm have "now [as of 1479 DR] all but extirpated from the Realms." It may be that we'll learn more about why the phaerimm eventually abandon the Realms after the conclusion of the "Twilight War" trilogy.
I'd say it also probably has to do with Netheril reclaiming the lands of Anauroch, which includes many of the older Netherese ruins and such that are buried beneath the surface -- many of which were likely held by phaerimm. With few places left in the Realms where they could effectively maintain their power in the face of growing Netherese/Shadovar power, the phaerimm, perhaps, made the decision to leave much of the Realms behind, intent on expanding their influence beyond Toril.
There hasn't been much said about the status of the sharn in 4e FR either.
The sharn are an interesting case though. With the phaerimm gone, I'd imagine they're still going to have their hands full in the post-Spellplague era. I mean, while they don't consider themselves guardians of the Weave as such, we do know that they don't like people or races using magic to destroy or wreck an area's ecology and inhabitants. It'll be intriguing to see how they respond to the devastation of the Spellplague.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2008 : 06:13:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The sharn are an interesting case though. With the phaerimm gone, I'd imagine they're still going to have their hands full in the post-Spellplague era. I mean, while they don't consider themselves guardians of the Weave as such, we do know that they don't like people or races using magic to destroy or wreck an area's ecology and inhabitants. It'll be intriguing to see how they respond to the devastation of the Spellplague.
And, potentially, the Netherese/Shadovar. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2008 : 20:09:01
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Thanks for the info, Sage!  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2008 : 10:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The sharn are an interesting case though. With the phaerimm gone, I'd imagine they're still going to have their hands full in the post-Spellplague era. I mean, while they don't consider themselves guardians of the Weave as such, we do know that they don't like people or races using magic to destroy or wreck an area's ecology and inhabitants. It'll be intriguing to see how they respond to the devastation of the Spellplague.
And, potentially, the Netherese/Shadovar.
I doubt they'll be the only concern for the leftover Sharn. I seem to recall Sage Schend saying something about the sharn focusing on other magically abusive powers -- like the Red Wizards for example and the arcane happenings in Thay.
Maybe we'll seem something like this in 4E FR.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2008 : 10:15:54
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| Iīm thinking about this, too. And the fact that few sharn stand their ground (after the events in Blackstaff novel), I think that they will start a more focused work to protect the magic (acting in group to "stole" an item, stop a mad-for-power wizard, etc.) |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2008 : 13:07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
I doubt they'll be the only concern for the leftover Sharn. I seem to recall Sage Schend saying something about the sharn focusing on other magically abusive powers -- like the Red Wizards for example and the arcane happenings in Thay.
Maybe we'll seem something like this in 4E FR.
Considering the impact of the Spellplague on Thay, this is indeed an intriguing notion. The ruins of many of Thay's cities could suddenly become the secret hide-aways for sharn looking to prevent the exploitation of many of the most dangerous arcane secrets of the Red Wizards.
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2008 : 15:12:24
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Hmmm... this brings to light another question: Thaymount, and his secrets. What could happen in a sarrukh / sharn meeting?
Intriguing possibilities... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12221 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2008 : 22:04:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Hmmm... this brings to light another question: Thaymount, and his secrets. What could happen in a sarrukh / sharn meeting?
Intriguing possibilities...
Have they ever officially anywhere ever stated that those reptilian scrawlings in Thaymount were indeed Sarrukh? I mean, I made the assumption about the creator races and such as well, but just wondering.
Also, I've been wondering something else. The priador rises up higher. Szass Tam is bringing in all kinds of undead from the sunrise mountains (which we know came from the ruins of Delhumide). However, it always intrigued me that the drow city of Undrek'Thoz resides below Thay and that the city which deals with necromancy is beneath the sunrise mountains. That the earth rises up I find interesting for this aspect. Could be nothing.... but.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 00:07:27
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What is it with Sarrukh coming back?
I don't want to be a contrarian, but doesn't the constant resurfacing of long lost cities and beings get boring after while? Been there, done that. Something NEW, please? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 Mar 2008 00:08:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 00:24:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
What is it with Sarrukh coming back?
I don't want to be a contrarian, but doesn't the constant resurfacing of long lost cities and beings get boring after while? Been there, done that. Something NEW, please?
Well, the Sellplague is new...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 00:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
What is it with Sarrukh coming back?
I don't want to be a contrarian, but doesn't the constant resurfacing of long lost cities and beings get boring after while? Been there, done that. Something NEW, please?
Well, the Sellplague is new...
Yeah... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 00:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
What is it with Sarrukh coming back?
I don't want to be a contrarian, but doesn't the constant resurfacing of long lost cities and beings get boring after while? Been there, done that. Something NEW, please?
Thatīs a true statement, there. The re-emergence of the past should be something momentous, unveiled layer by layr a little at a time to retain being special and unique. The way that has been handled in the past years seemed more like a bargain bin of lost lore and cultures. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 02:22:07
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Yeah, now it's so routine it just elicits a YAWN.
For me, anyway. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 03:32:59
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Same here. Finding out about/getting in touch with a culture from the past/legend etc., is a process which should be slow and gradual, adding to the mystique and extraordinaire, making it something special. Thatīs one of the mayor points where my campaign has veered a lot from the "official" Realms. (Well, that and the whole Shade fiasco...heh. .) Ah, the times, when finding a relic of the past where such grand moments... |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 12:00:35
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Guys, if you want to make the process slow and gradual in your campaign, then make it slow and gradual.
Given that there are only a limited number of ways to bring the cool stuff from the past to the present, then of course with the multitude of FR books published, then the idea is going to pop up on multiple occasions.
Hmmm, ways to bring cool stuff from the past to the present setting... ruins for PCs to explore (done in most adventrues, though is still the best way IMHO...cf Lost Empires of Faerun), time travel (done here and there in 2e), old things dug up & now active (Tome of Unicorn etc...could be done more with this, but can be the focus of a whole sourcebook), past-guys go/hide away and then come back mow (Shadovar, Sarrukh, Imaskari...check).
I agree that everyone from the past seems to be popping up just 'now', but I think thats to some extent the nature of releasing lots of supplements around the same point in the timeline.
The alternative, to be embraced in 4e is to move the timeline radically which I, like most people, am no fan of (though every time I read an FR review that includes a line with "xxx was already described back in yyy, so you don't need to buy new sourcebook zzz" I shudder and can see why WotC have adopted the +100 year gap).
Strange days indeed,
S
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 12:05:58
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| What's funny about the whole research thingy: they could have produced updates to the old sourcematerial at comparably low cost as it was already written... they could have focused on more crunch as well, since the flavor didn't really change that much... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 13:43:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
Given that there are only a limited number of ways to bring the cool stuff from the past to the present, then of course with the multitude of FR books published, then the idea is going to pop up on multiple occasions.
That's a pretty weak reason. Because people can't think of something else to do with the book their writing, they just have to dig up some sort of uber-powerful ancient race?
I mean really, there's more than enough world to avoid bringing back ancient races every couple of days.
quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
I agree that everyone from the past seems to be popping up just 'now', but I think thats to some extent the nature of releasing lots of supplements around the same point in the timeline.
A supplement doesn't have to bring something back. A supplement could just detain an area. Perhaps talk about some of the homegrown plots and such. Maybe even talk about the rumors that folks are around who dress in archaic fashions and talk in outdated modes.
quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
The alternative, to be embraced in 4e is to move the timeline radically which I, like most people, am no fan of (though every time I read an FR review that includes a line with "xxx was already described back in yyy, so you don't need to buy new sourcebook zzz" I shudder and can see why WotC have adopted the +100 year gap).
I don't buy that. With spellplague and 100 years you can be sure that it's no longer the good ol Waterdeep you knew. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 16:06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
Given that there are only a limited number of ways to bring the cool stuff from the past to the present, then of course with the multitude of FR books published, then the idea is going to pop up on multiple occasions.
"Stuff from the past." That can mean an artifact, which is one thing, or a whole long lost civilization, which is quite another.
The latter has happened way too often, recently, for my taste. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 18:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Have they ever officially anywhere ever stated that those reptilian scrawlings in Thaymount were indeed Sarrukh? I mean, I made the assumption about the creator races and such as well, but just wondering.
No, Sleyvas, there is no official connection, but the lore that we have almost scream to us that the Thaymount is related with the Sarrukh. And I, as an devious DM, could not lost this chance to add another plot / power group to my pcs.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
What is it with Sarrukh coming back?
I don't want to be a contrarian, but doesn't the constant resurfacing of long lost cities and beings get boring after while? Been there, done that. Something NEW, please?
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
Thatīs a true statement, there. The re-emergence of the past should be something momentous, unveiled layer by layr a little at a time to retain being special and unique. The way that has been handled in the past years seemed more like a bargain bin of lost lore and cultures.
 Ouch! I donīt know that I will start this type of comments. When I mentioned that probably there is a connection between the sarrukh and the Thaymount, Iīm only speaking because I see this possibility.
And I have a campaign centered in the region, and another that is very focused in red wizards and his deeds, so, I only ask this question here, to spark some creative minds about this possibility, and what the sharn will be about this (and if they will do something about this).
Remembering, Iīm not an WotC designer with a wicked plan to conquer the World and bring back something of the past to Faerûn... Iīm only a member of the forum, and old dwarf and DM, thinking in something more to make the days of my players more... interesting. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 19:03:57
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No, no Chosen of Moradin, donīt you get your beard all tangled up there, stout fellow, my comments were generally aimed at the speed of these things in official products, not at all to what you posted. Your idea itself sounds like something intriguing indeed.
So donīt worry, and let us grab some...err...holy water, together.
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~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 19:20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
Guys, if you want to make the process slow and gradual in your campaign, then make it slow and gradual.
Oh,I do that. Itīs not a problem. I just think it was overdone in "canon lore" recently. Too many massive changes et al. Iīve used hardly any of those in my campaign, but they do pop up in novels, etc. and since novels are among the FR things I love most, it annoys me a little.ītis all.
quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
Given that there are only a limited number of ways to bring the cool stuff from the past to the present, then of course with the multitude of FR books published, then the idea is going to pop up on multiple occasions.
Hmmm, ways to bring cool stuff from the past to the present setting... ruins for PCs to explore (done in most adventrues, though is still the best way IMHO...cf Lost Empires of Faerun), time travel (done here and there in 2e), old things dug up & now active (Tome of Unicorn etc...could be done more with this, but can be the focus of a whole sourcebook), past-guys go/hide away and then come back mow (Shadovar, Sarrukh, Imaskari...check).
I agree that everyone from the past seems to be popping up just 'now', but I think thats to some extent the nature of releasing lots of supplements around the same point in the timeline.
I agree, but thatīs kind of the point, isnīt it? There could have been more forethought and therefore things could have been included into the timeline in broader intervalls, making it all gel better and more smoothly. The return of one ancient city/culture/race whatever canīt have the impact it deserves when it has to share the spotlight with three others. A good example of slow progression IMO (although itīs not quite the return of an ancient civilization) is the Shoon-storyline from "Lands of Intrigue" et al.
quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
The alternative, to be embraced in 4e is to move the timeline radically which I, like most people, am no fan of (though every time I read an FR review that includes a line with "xxx was already described back in yyy, so you don't need to buy new sourcebook zzz" I shudder and can see why WotC have adopted the +100 year gap).
I donīt really see this as an alternative at all. The timeline jump is actually a better chance to add more "cool stuff", sense be damned, without regard for continuity or historical position, because everything and anything can be explained by "da plague". |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2008 : 15:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Ouch! I donīt know that I will start this type of comments. When I mentioned that probably there is a connection between the sarrukh and the Thaymount, Iīm only speaking because I see this possibility.
I know that. But the sarrukh seem to be getting mentioned a lot lately, and the designers don't exactly have an aversion to bringing back long lost (and populated) cities.
The only one of truly liked so far is the City of Hope, because of how it was done...although, even that was part of a greater trend that I dislike. Let's see, we have the Thultanthar, Deep Imaskar, a newly risen leShay city in the Moonshaes (sorry Brian, but I thought that was annoying, and I'm tired of year names, in this case the Year of Risen Elfkin, being taken so literally), what else? It just gets dull after a while. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 06 Mar 2008 15:26:27 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2008 : 15:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon
No, no Chosen of Moradin, donīt you get your beard all tangled up there, stout fellow, my comments were generally aimed at the speed of these things in official products, not at all to what you posted. Your idea itself sounds like something intriguing indeed.
So donīt worry, and let us grab some...err...holy water, together.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know that. But the sarrukh seem to be getting mentioned a lot lately, and the designers don't exactly have an aversion to bringing back long lost (and populated) cities.
The only one of truly liked so far is the City of Hope, because of how it was done...although, even that was part of a greater trend that I dislike. Let's see, we have the Thultanthar, Deep Imaskar, a newly risen leShay city in the Moonshaes (sorry Brian, but I thought that was annoying, and I'm tired of year names, in this case the Year of Risen Elfkin, being taken so literally), what else? It just gets dull after a while.
Donīt worry, good fellows!
I understand clearly your statements. I, too,donīt like of the great quantity of races / situations / events of the past coming back. But some of them are very good to ignore - as a DM "putting some spice" in his campaigns.
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Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2008 : 18:26:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yeah, now it's so routine it just elicits a YAWN.
For me, anyway.
Not just you...
Everything they claim is 'new' is really just other people's ideas of 'lost civilizations', and badly pasted-in 'things' form other settings (ie, Draconians).
Awhile back the hooded one commented in a thread that Ed has always strived for a certain 'feel' in the Realms - that feeling of Antiquity and a vast panorama of history marching endlessly on. Everywhere one goes in the Realms, one can find ruins of older Kingdoms and empires strewn about.
Isn't bringing all those things back completely breaking the concept of FR? How can we have that feeling of 'Ancient Wonder', when you can now actually meet Netherese, and talk to Imaskari?
That would be like us going back to ancient Rome or Egypt - it wouldn't be 1/100th as interesting as it is in the 'mysterious past'.
Now it looks like they may bring back the Sarrukh in Thay? What happens to Undrek-Thoz, the segmented City? Do they even bother to think about these things? 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Mar 2008 18:28:05 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2008 : 21:14:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
..
Now it looks like they may bring back the Sarrukh in Thay? What happens to Undrek-Thoz, the segmented City? Do they even bother to think about these things?
No, this is incorrect. They only mentioned that the Thaymount have a "serpentine" feeling, and is very old. Everyone make the connection with this. They never more talked about this.
I, as DM, see this connection and want to use it in my campaign, as an possible side plot in my sleeve.
But, I give up to talk about this. There is a "collective thinking" about WotC ideas and designers, and about this or that realmslore that is far more greater that my will to talk about these things. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 09 Mar 2008 21:15:20 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12221 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 17:23:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Have they ever officially anywhere ever stated that those reptilian scrawlings in Thaymount were indeed Sarrukh? I mean, I made the assumption about the creator races and such as well, but just wondering.
No, Sleyvas, there is no official connection, but the lore that we have almost scream to us that the Thaymount is related with the Sarrukh. And I, as an devious DM, could not lost this chance to add another plot / power group to my pcs.
-snip-
And I have a campaign centered in the region, and another that is very focused in red wizards and his deeds, so, I only ask this question here, to spark some creative minds about this possibility, and what the sharn will be about this (and if they will do something about this).
Remembering, Iīm not an WotC designer with a wicked plan to conquer the World and bring back something of the past to Faerûn... Iīm only a member of the forum, and old dwarf and DM, thinking in something more to make the days of my players more... interesting.
May you always put forth imaginative thoughts. That's why I come to the forums, to put forth my own and hear others. Since you struck my head into thinking about the fact that they never actually declared who the reptilian beings were in the Thaymount.... I'm thinking about 4th edition and where they seem to be taking things. I too like the idea of these reptiles being Sarrukh, but perhaps there are other possibilities. For instance, I know there's something about the Dragonborn being in Unther. I forget where they came from (was it Abeir?), but they would also make sense as possibly having been involved in that area of Faerun. Actually, the whole layout of the Priador could have been a great place for dragons to Lair in the past. Anyone coming at them would only have a few places to gain access which could be guarded, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Phaerimms, Sharns, and 4 ed
