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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 17:12:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
I dunno. They seem to have reacted to questions about the pricing structure, and they've said all along they'd eventually start charging for it. The only thing I see in this announcement is confirmation of what was previously announced, except that it's a lot cheaper (for the first year anyway) that what was previously announced.
Yeah, but I have a serious problem with being told "pay now, and we'll give you the content later". Besides, some people asked in the associated thread -- and, the last time I checked, had not received an answer -- what's happening with all the content that has always been free? Not the Dragon/Dungeon stuff (which I'm not sure is worth the money), but the articles we'd previously gotten for free, like the Realmslore stuff or the Fight Club articles.
Also, I don't like the virtual gaming table being part of it. I think this is the strongest thing they have to offer, and as such, could easily stand on its own. I also think it should be an actual program, and not something dependent on their website -- because there is no way I'm paying to use a service that is as buggy as their website. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 17:32:10
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If it should be a program, then they would have to cater for different platforms: Windows, Mac, and Linux*. A Windows-only program would be a desaster, and I am not sure, if they could offer a multiplatform program given the momentary status of their website (which is at least platform independent).
*Edit: And of course Sage OS. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 07 Aug 2008 17:37:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 17:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
If it should be a program, then they would have to cater for different platforms: Windows, Mac, and Linux*. A Windows-only program would be a desaster, and I am not sure, if they could offer a multiplatform program given the momentary status of their website (which is at least platform independent).
*Edit: And of course Sage OS.
Given the high prominence of Windows, I can't agree that it would be a disaster to only offer it on that OS. However, they should at least include Macs in this theoretical program, since Mac laptops are currently very popular. Linux is more iffy, since the number of different flavors of Linux out there is so dang high. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 18:51:46
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quote:
Originally from Bill Slavicsek's Ampersand Column, May 7, 2008
D&D Insider’s free beta period coincides with the launch of 4th Edition. You get to try out the first digital components without paying the subscription fees, and you can provide feedback to help us improve your experience. The initial rollout includes Dragon and Dungeon online magazines, and the D&D Rules Compendium. This powerful online resource for players and Dungeon Masters alike will be updated with each new D&D release (whether it’s an analog game product or a digital magazine), making it the place to go in order to find what you need, when you need it.
From this, I deduced that we would get to use all of the online applications before we started having to pay for it. I guess I was wrong. Well, no loss to them I guess, I wasn't planning on ever paying for it considering that the online versions of Dungeon and Dragon have never been as good as their print counterparts, and since I have decided not to invest in 4e at all. This is not to say that it is a bad system, but more of a statement of what the company has become: a corporate dog. My guess is that Hasbro is pushing WotC to start charging for the online content even though all features are not ready because their pockets aren't getting lined enough. Not a sound business practice (IMHO).
P.S. This does not mean that I will not go check out the FRCG like I have stated that I will on several occasions (both here and on the WotC forums). Just after the quiet cancellation of the Countdown to the Realms articles and the piles of words with occasional Realms buzzwords thrown in that are actual excerpts from the book (though I thought that the Church of Shar one had plenty of Realmslore, much of which could be easily used in a 3.x campaign), I no longer have any inkling of a hope that I will find it familiar enough to purchase. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Fire Wraith
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 20:12:34
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When I first heard about the whole idea, it seemed like a reasonable notion to me. As time has passed, though, it sounds more and more like the whole thing is going to become yet another fiasco. Instead, we're seeing features delayed, prices slashed (not necessarily a bad thing, but not exactly a sign of good health), etc. On the whole, as much as it conceptually is annoying that they are charging for the service without providing the applications that were supposedly a core part of the value.
However, it should be considered that you're basically paying $4 to $8 per month for a digital subscription to Dungeon and Dragon. Were this the Paizo-published version, I'd consider that a grand bargain. Given the current content, your mileage may vary - but on the whole, certainly not unreasonable. What I suspect we may see is that this is just about all there is to it, for the foreseeable future.
And this was supposed to be the revolutionary new frontier of D&D?  |
Edited by - Fire Wraith on 07 Aug 2008 20:13:17 |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:25:03
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Games like World of Warcraft or Everquest cost about twice as much, but at least they have easily understood content and mechanics and dont require you to work a lot. I cant imagine players investing that much money to get a relatively simple 3D version of a miniature game compared with the rather flashy graphics of the MMORPGs. With the vast number of options which D&D offers configuring your controls for a character wont be that easy compared to WoW and EQ ... either that OR it will make gameplay rather tedious while one player whose turn it is looks for the commands to execute an action. The other option is that the online version doesnt include everything the paper version has, but how much sense would that make?
Actually creating dungeons will probably be a tough nut to crack for many DMs and mostly produce rather dull looking ones I would imagine. I have tried my hand at some NWN dungeonmaking and that wasnt too easy either to make interactive stuff work when you reach a certain degree of complexity. You will probably spend more time creating such a dungeon than you would need on paper.
For only the reference stuff, a character generator and a visualizer available online the price would be too outrageous. IMO the money spent on this should go into the "brains department" for coming up with good stories and explanations and rules. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:53:45
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LOL - I have been saying all along that this was all vaporware, and they would have nothing to show come Aug - and I started saying that a year ago.
Trust in Markustay... he's always right. 
Also lends credence to my suppositions about them trusting someone a little too much...
I had NO DOUBT after learning about the game-table they tried to plagerize - at that time I was sure nothing had been done on a real version.
The DDi team should all be fired - they've been paid for an entire year and nothing was accomplished besides leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
There is NO more content coming, trust me. When guys like Rich Baker strart tossing around words like "hope" in connection to the DDi, thats business-speak for "don't count on it".
And if they were planning on actually producing the promised content, they wouldn't be lowering their price. This is their way of trying to still make a little money off something that simply does not exist.
Heads are going to roll, mark my words. 4e is going to flop, if for no other reason then their plan to continue future support through the DDi is now trashed. Without splatbooks or DDi articles on the Realms, the LFR campaigns aren't going anywhere, and by this time next year NO ONE will be playing in the Realms anymore.
At least, not the 'new' Realms...
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:58:02
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 NostraMarkus strikes again!!! |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Fire Wraith
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 23:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
4e is going to flop, if for no other reason then their plan to continue future support through the DDi is now trashed. Without splatbooks or DDi articles on the Realms, the LFR campaigns aren't going anywhere, and by this time next year NO ONE will be playing in the Realms anymore.
At least, not the 'new' Realms...
So sayeth the wise Nostramarkus.
Of course, I'm inclined to snark that the very sort of complete lack of anything but the most basic campaign setting sounds exactly like what some of the "it's too complex" Realms-History haters wanted, in the first place... |
Edited by - Fire Wraith on 07 Aug 2008 23:56:31 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 00:39:37
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This announcement is pretty strange and I'm not sure if I even understand it. Are they really asking people to pay for stuff that's already free? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 01:01:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
If it should be a program, then they would have to cater for different platforms: Windows, Mac, and Linux*. A Windows-only program would be a desaster, and I am not sure, if they could offer a multiplatform program given the momentary status of their website (which is at least platform independent).
*Edit: And of course Sage OS.
Provided I write the appropriate sub-routines, of course. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 02:20:20
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quote:
4e is going to flop...
I know a lot of folks on these boards are pretty heavily invested in this idea, but I'm hearing that the Bookscan numbers of 4E for the last three months versus 3 and 3.5 for any entire year of their in-print life point pretty dramatically the other direction. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
Edited by - Christopher_Rowe on 08 Aug 2008 02:30:17 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 02:39:32
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Its called shelf-life, my dear boy. The old realms has twenty+ years of material one can turn to to run a thousand entirely different, interesting campaigns.
The 4e Realms has a setting guide and a Player's guide, and then thats it. What they've been saying for the past year is that they 'planned' to continue support for the settings in the DDi, but now with the mental-illness and death of their lead programmer, cancellation of Gleemax, and now dropping their price so low that they people won't complain when they get nothing for it, I really, TRULY doubt anything will come out on the DDi. With just those two books out, people will quickly (three months? six?) grow bored of the new FR and move onto something else.
And the worst part is, by their OWN HAND (the GSL), no other company is going to produce 4e settings, so when people get bored with the one and only setting available, they will drop the rules as well. They do not have enough to hold people's interest, and they have stopped others from doing it for them.
As far as the DDi goes, we were supposed to get ten articles/previews, and now they have resorted to giving us excerpts -and not very good ones - of the FRCG. That sounds like desperation, to me. They are trying to take whatever they have and make it look like the DDi has content... which it doesn't. The price-drop is called "damage-control".
There is NO game table, and I'm sure the guys at WotC were just as surprised as some of you are...
But not me.  Nostramarkus... I LIKE the sound of that.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
This announcement is pretty strange and I'm not sure if I even understand it. Are they really asking people to pay for stuff that's already free?
That is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
The funny thing is, the quality of articles and free stuff we were getting a year ago was MUCH better then anything we have seen in the past 12 months - with the notable exception of Brian's articles. They haven't even bothered to post ANY of the 4e art, and they used to post all the 3e art as soon as the books were out.
Not only do they want us to pay for a site that offers nothing new, but they are giving us less for the money then we got for FREE in the past.
They have literally become beggers... its just so sad that D&D has come to this. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Aug 2008 02:45:55 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 03:00:14
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quote:
...no other company is going to produce 4e settings, so when people get bored with the one and only setting available, they will drop the rules as well. They do not have enough to hold people's interest, and they have stopped others from doing it for them.
No, seriously, I think you guys might be underestimating the 4E numbers here. Remember that the vocal component of a fandom (ie, those that post on message boards, or even read message boards) is usually a vanishingly small fraction of a given "property's" purchasing following. Even in RPGS, even in the Realms.
As a somewhat related example, the vast majority of people who read Terry Pratchett novels have no idea that there's such a thing as a Discworld convention and might even be disconcerted that such a thing exists. (And further, I'd bet that the vast majority of people who read Terry Pratchett novels wouldn't think twice about merrily plunking down their twenty-three bucks if his next novel flash-forwards the setting by a thousand years and reveals that Ankh-Morpork is actually a speck of lint suspended in a baboon's navel.)
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 03:05:37
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Christopher: I'm unfamiliar with Bookscan. Does it include orders for vendors? Or is it direct sales?
Thanks for sharing your info! |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 03:13:53
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MT: Yes, DDI sux now, and I pine for the classic Ed Realmslore articles. Oh, those Border Kingdom and Uthmere gems!
Yet WOTC may yet pull DDI together--over time. I am encouraged they came forward with accurate information and admit the coolest stuff is TBA. WOTC's behavior was surreal for a while. I feel they're finally becoming realistic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 03:35:35
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I would have to agree with you there - this new stance by them concerning their digital endeavors does appear more focused and realistic.
Maybe now that they've had a reality-check, they can come back down to earth and start producing the kind of quality stuff we used to expect. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 03:47:23
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Christopher: I'm unfamiliar with Bookscan. Does it include orders for vendors? Or is it direct sales?
Thanks for sharing your info!
BookScan is a Nielson company. It captures point of sales numbers for books from all the (US) national bookselling chains, plus amazon, CostCo, and most of the major independent booksellers. So these numbers are from the bookselling trade, and not the game store trade.
BookScan--like competing book sales tracking systems like USA Today and the NYT best sellers list--is notorious for underreporting certain kinds of sales (like books from religious publishers), and I guess the underreporting here is probably from gaming/hobby re 'n' e-tailers like your local gaming store and paizo.com and so on.
So, fair questions are (a) do percentage increases or decreases recorded at BookScan reporting outlets reflect those at other outlets and (b) are the raw numbers of sales at BookScan reporting outlets a significant percentage of overall sales of a gaming product?
For (a), I have no idea. For (b), my educated guess is that for the three core D&D rulebooks form WotC, the bookselling trade represents the biggest single slice of the pie.
Anyway, this all anecdotal, and y'all have no reason to believe me. But my personal observation, as somebody who's been in the publishing and bookselling trade in one guise or the other for almost two decades, is that 4E is the biggest thing that's come down the pike in a good long while. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Fire Wraith
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 04:08:24
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Maybe I'm way off base, but this would be the first information I've heard to that effect - everything else would seem to indicate the opposite (and I would be curious to what extent those numbers are of actual register sales, versus sales to wholesellers etc (since they seem to track both). I don't honestly want to see 4th Edition turn into the New Coke/Edsel/etc of gaming. In fact, I think that sort of result would be rather damaging to the hobby, overall.* 4th Edition FR is another matter, but again, there is more to the matter than just a "they fail, we win" mentality.
However, all of this is rather moot to the key point that is at issue here, which is Wizards' Digital-based business model for D&D, that is part of the 4th Edition lineup. Regardless of how many gamers and non gamers buy the books, if the post-sale support material is lackluster, or worse, nonexistent, then what sort situation are we left with down the road? The GSL is acting as a huge constraint on third-party supplements. There are some, but nowhere near the way there were for 3rd edition.
*My nightmare scenario here involves new gamers being introduced by buying 4th edition D&D, only to conclude that it, and the support being offered to it, are either bad, or compare unfavorably to other RPGs, other related miniatures-style/etc games (Warhammer, Magic, etc), or MMOs a la Warcraft. They then go back to not playing D&D, with an added negative mindset towards things associated with D&D, FR, etc. (or worse, RPGs in general) |
Edited by - Fire Wraith on 08 Aug 2008 04:09:04 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 04:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Fire Wraith
...everything else would seem to indicate the opposite...
Everything else like what? I'm not trying to be contentious, but I've not seen or heard anything beyond "Well, at my local game shop they're patching holes in the roof with unsold copies of Keep on the Shadowfell" type stories on message boards. Which are worth precisely nothing when trying to judge the success of a new product rollout.
quote:
and I would be curious to what extent those numbers are of actual register sales...
BookScan tracks point of sale numbers, which I believe are the same as what you're calling "actual register sales." |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 08:40:40
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| I dont think 4e will look like a failure for some time. The core books are dead cheap compared to the previous books - at least around here: 25 Euros for 4e vs. 29-32 Euros for older books. This may be because they are doing it like printer companies: Make the printer cheap and the color cartridges expensive. For WotC the catridges would have been the DDi, but that isnt likely to be working soon, so they have to wait for a lot of revenue and invest more to make that come finally. In the meantime the 4e customers have to invent a new world themselves because at least the new FR is generally disliked? This might not work for long. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 10:21:54
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I am no expert here, but some guy on the Paizo board who has supposedly insight into the industry pointed out that one in no way can establish a trend from the sales' numbers of the first row of printing - that being said against the notion that sales' numbers of 4e books are so good ... One has to wait for the months to come to for a more accurate assessment about success oder failure of 4e.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But not me. Nostramarkus... I LIKE the sound of that.
For completeness sake: Nostramarkus the seer. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 08 Aug 2008 10:23:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 14:37:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No, no... we already decided. Markus's new name is Markushoon.
As a mixture of "Mushroom" and "Alhoon" (and Markus)? |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
Edited by - Pandora on 08 Aug 2008 14:37:57 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 15:11:24
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Actually, I think it had more to do with a discussion about Manshoon's clones that Markus and I had a short while back here at Candlekeep. I suggested that Markus should merge with a clone, creating a new entity -- named Markushoon.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 16:00:15
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| Well, I coined NostraMarkus sometime in the past week when he was proclaiming the many things he predicted about 4e and the 4e Realms that have come true, and so I shall use that! *attempts to take a hoity-toity posture and look down his nose, but is not very good at it* |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 00:08:07
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Christopher_Rowe: Thanks for explaining how Bookscan works.
It makes sense that, by controlling the amount of titles produced, they'd increase demand. And, when I checked prices for the FRCS and FRPG on Amazon.com, they appear much more affordable than the pricing for 3E stuff!
Does DDI's postponement affect anybody's use of their 4E materials? |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2008 : 16:26:32
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| can you just subscribe to dragon and not dungeon? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Keravin
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 11:53:18
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| Nope it's all or nothing on the subscription. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 15:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Keravin
Nope it's all or nothing on the subscription.
... Which to me seems to indicate that the customer's money is far more important than customer satisfaction... I know they're in business to make money, but sometimes you've got to give the customer something to make money in return. A couple months ago, I was building a computer desk, misread the instructions, and ruined it by putting bolts thru the desktop. I called the place where I got it, and they said I was SOL. So we went back to get a new one (because it was on sale for 50% off). The girl who checked us out recognized us from the day before. So I told her what had happened. She told me to return the other desk. I told her I'd called and was told that wasn't an option. She pointed to her nametag and said "I'm a manager, and I'm telling you we'll give you a refund if you bring it back. I don't care what someone else told you, this is good customer service." So now that store has a very happy customer, who will most readily return. And that's the kind of thing that makes money for the company -- taking a small loss in order to get a future profit.
WotC doesn't even have to do that much -- they just need to set it up in segments instead of an all-or-nothing deal. People who aren't interested in paying for the character visualizer and non-existent products like the virtual gaming table would be more likely to give WotC money if they knew that was all they were paying for, instead of being asked to pay for stuff they don't want. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Aug 2008 15:35:22 |
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DDi: Same old website that will soon cost us $$?
