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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 03:35:47
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In apologies for my Bruce Cordell mistake and implications that this wasn't more a group project, I shall now actually review something by Richie Baker. This is the third major portion of the 4E material so far released.
Feel free to comment on the bits that interest you.
Countdown to the Realms Review
The Realms of 1479 DR
Ninety-four years ago, Mystra perished and the world went mad.
And thus we pick up from where the Spell Plague happened and establish that we're now 100 years in the Realms future (rounding). It's a big change that makes a lot of NPCs dead but it also prevents the Realms from being essentially a Post-Apocalyptic experience. Unfortunately, we don't get to see Alusair and Caladnei deal with the horror....or we might, I don't know. Frankly, I hope the Novels will stick with the present timeline for the next couple of years.
On the other hand, I also know that Ed Greenwood has literally like THOUSANDS of pages of unused Realms Lore. A lot of this is NPCs. I can't imagine that he won't simply move what's appropriate as well. Murders aside, we'll also still have a lot of Gnome and Elf and Dwarf PCs.
Plus, Legacy characters aren't always bad. The Heroes of the Lance were awesome but I *LIKED* Palin Majere and his brothers from Dragonlance. I'd be interested in meeting a Half-Elf (quirk of genetics) David Moonblade.
Unchecked, ungoverned, the raw stuff of wild magic danced across the world, wreaking terrible destruction. Cities burned, kingdoms fell, luckless people were changed into monsters, and mages went berserk. This was the Spellplague, a rippling outbreak of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of magical catastrophes that left no corner of Faerûn untouched. For almost ten years new outbreaks appeared here and there, striking randomly and without warning. Wherever they struck, chaos reigned.
It's a rather lengthy and terrible event that, frankly, doesn't bode well for our characters. After the return of Bane, the Return of Shade, the Fey'ri Invasion, the Cult of the Dragon's attacks, the death of Khelban, and similiar horrors....it's been a truly :censored: period for the whole of Faerun. Frankly, I don't envy any stories that are told in this period.
Worse, there's no actual enemy to triumph over, it seems to be just the aftermath of the destruction of the Weave plus whatever Godswar style catastrophe is being fought in the Heavens.
During the Year of Blue Fire and the terrible years that followed, heroes all over Faerûn battled to contain the magical plague. In some places they succeeded; in others, they failed and died horribly. Places guarded by powerful, persistent magical wards were largely unharmed; the Spellplague flowed around mythals and other such mighty enchantments. But even then, some mythal-guarded sites fell prey to invasions of plaguechanged monsters or the spells of maddened archmages. No place was truly safe.
This will, presumably, be the end of a lot of the heroes of the past. Khelban is dead, Sylune is Dead Dead (she was already dead), and we know that Bruenor Battlehammer seems to be dead from Drizzt's monologue despite the fact that he should just be an elderly dwarf now. Drizzt's statements about the Spirit Soaring are that we'll probably also see the death of Caderly as well.
Honestly, I'm not looking forward to a mass murder of heroes.
In many places, the Spellplague wrought drastic changes to the very shape of the world. The vast Underdark system beneath the western Shaar suffered a calamitous collapse, leaving a miles-deep pit the size of a country where the Landrise once ran. Thay’s forbidding plateaus were lifted thousands of feet higher, leaving many of its cities in ruins. The Priador and eastern Thesk are a maze of monster-haunted foothills beneath Thay’s daunting ramparts now. Fencelike ridges of glass spires, drifting earthmotes covered in weird aerial forests, towering mesas of whorled stone… all over Faerûn magical landscapes are interspersed with the common rock and root of the lands that existed before. Even in countries that survived the Spellplague more or less intact, these “changelands” stand as striking new landmarks—landmarks that sometimes harbor monsters never before seen in Faerûn.
I think the loss of the Shaar is a bit of a tragedy because we really don't need a ginormous hole where we used to have African Savannahs (While Chult is the African Congo, this was another major portion of the feel for it). Frankly, I'm not sure what the whole adventuring prospects of a ginormous hole are. It's one thing if it's like the Shadow Rift and filled with Faeries but it seems like it's just a ginormous hole.
Thay seems to have been devastated but what happened 94 years ago is not necessarilly going to have much of an effect on the present era. It's been 50 years since World War 2 and it was less than that between WW2 and WW1. The human race has a tendency to bounce back from atrocity rather well.
It's my hope Thay is largely unchanged.
In time, the fury of the Spellplague burned itself out. New outbreaks became fewer and weaker, and finally seemed to cease altogether. Pockets of “live” Spellplague still exist in a few places known as plaguelands; one of the largest is a vast waste known as the Changing Lands, where Sespech and Chondath used to be. Few people dare to enter such places, but from time to time they disgorge horribly mutated monsters, tormenting the lands nearby. No new plaguelands have appeared in decades now, and some seem to be weakening as the years pass. But the damage has already been done
This seems very little different from the Wild Magic Zones post the TOT.
No one will ever be able to create a comprehensive chronology of where and when each outbreak struck, or how each town and city fared through the chaos of the Plague Years. Countless thousands of people fled from each new outbreak, migrating here and there across the continent. War, rebellion, and brigandage reigned unchecked. Mad prophets walked the world, preaching that the Spellplague was the wrath of this god or that and demanding repentance, sacrifice, or holy war in atonement. Anarchy descended over most kingdoms and lasted for a generation or more before some semblance of authority was reestablished. The world that emerged from the Plague Years was not the same Faerûn.
I like the deliberate parallels between the Black Death and the Spellplague here. This is something I've been using in my own campaign where I suggest that a substantial number of people of Faerun's 64 million people perished in the horror (in my game, the total causalties of the Spell Plague are 1.4 million---which may not seem like much but is pretty damn nightmarish).
The Spellplague left the cities of the Sword Coast almost unscathed. Perhaps it was attenuated by the lingering high magic of ancient Illefarn, perhaps it was deflected by the efforts of mighty heroes, or perhaps sheer chance steered the magical contagion away from the Sea of Swords; however it happened, the Sword Coast looks much as it did a hundred years ago.
Frankly, this is kinda disappointing since if any place needed a thorough disaster to start anew then it would be the Sword Coast. I hate the Lords Alliance and frankly wish it would be more like Neverwinter Nights where one city could plunder or destroy one without repercussions. Certainly, Westgate and Luskan are both cities that the destruction thereof could only improve the Populous' lot.
In Waterdeep the great walking statues hidden within the city arose for a single day and wrecked several wards, only to suddenly halt where they stood when the Spellplague’s influence retreated again. To this day the towering colossi remain standing where they were at that moment, while the city has been rebuilt around their stony waists. Waterdeep is still governed by its Lords, advised by the Blackstaff—the most powerful mage of Blackstaff Tower, heir to the lore of the mighty Khelben. The city remains a hub of trade and commerce; all roads lead to Waterdeep, or so it is said.
Waterdeep seems to have been severely damaged but otherwise seems unchanged. One major change is that Stephen Schned's idea that Khelben's heir would continue to impersonate him is something that will not be the case. I wonder how this will be handled in the Blackstaff novel. Still, the events here are clearly too large for any single book series to cover.
To the south, the city of Baldur’s Gate became a refuge for countless thousands fleeing the ruin wrought by the Spellplague in the lands south of the Sea of Fallen Stars. Where other cities and lands turned away such refugees, Baldur’s Gate tolerated them… and now, almost a century later, it is the largest city in Faerûn, sprawling for mile after mile along the banks of the Chionthar. Each group of refugees created their own neighborhood under the walls of the previous immigrants’ districts, and the city is a mad patchwork of crowded neighborhoods, each dominated by a single race or human ethnicity such as dwarf, halfling, gnome, Turmic, or Shaaran.
I like the view of Baldur's Gate as the Los Angeles of the Forgotten Realms. Frankly, ethnic strife is always fun and the idea of a city of simmering racial and economic tensions is something that is rife with adventuring possibilities. Also, Baldur's Gate will hopefully start looking like a genuine Kingdom as opposed to just being a City-State. Frankly, it bodes well for it.
Across the Sea of Swords, the Moonshaes have fallen into a patchwork of small kingdoms. Caer Calidyrr still stands as the chief kingdom of the native Moonshavians (the Ffolk), but over the last century the powerful mainland realm of Amn has set its sights on this land. Amnite merchant-lords control much of the large island of Gwynneth, while the warlike Northlanders hold Oman and Norland. The Feywild, the realm of Faerie, lies close to Faerûn here, and from its shadows a dire new threat is gathering—the terrible fomorians, who dream of sweeping away the human kingdoms and subjugating the islands beneath their mighty fists.
The devastation implied of High King Tristan Kendrick's Dynasty is a tragedy and I think it's safe to assume that Alicia Kendrick plus her consort might have met a less than wonderful end. Frankly, I never really warmed up to them after the tragic death of Diedre whom wormed her way into my heart despite being a Priestess of Talos. Nevertheless, they're going all out Celtic Isles here and it doesn't seem to be too problematic for me. The kingdom always did seem a little too peaceful under the Kendrick's benevolent guidance (It was the "Other Cormyr" in my realms).
Between the North and the Moonsea Lands lies a land under the dominion of shadow. The reborn Empire of Netheril now lies in the basin that once held the desert Anauroch. The new Netheril claims all of the lands that ancient Netheril once occupied, and seeks to dominate Faerûn just as ancient Netheril did twenty centuries ago. Much of Anauroch’s vast basin is still desolate wasteland, but the lords of Netheril have spent decades weaving mighty spells to summon water to the parched lands and fill the empty skies with rain. Slowly but surely,
grassland grows over the dunes, and young forests cover the stony barrens.
Well, this unfortunately confirms that the Empire of Shade managed to get through this calamity intact. I've honestly felt that they were too powerful as villains to be truly effective and Shar's priesthood rather annoys me. I was hoping that, if Netheril survived in any form, it wouldn't necessarilly be all under the dominion of Night/Dark Magic. I'm saddened to see the largest desert in Faerun go as well. Ruha and her lover Lander's adventures there seem so pointless now.
Thayans are powerful but range in levels.
Netheril is a magical tyranny, governed by a noble caste of shades—powerful human mages and lords who have exchanged their mortal essences for the stuff of shadow. Beneath the shade lords are the citizens of Shade, the ancient city-state that fled into the plane of Shadow when the old empire fell and survived many centuries in dark exile. They are a race of ambitious and masterful humans who strive to advance the power of their realm, hoping to earn the reward of transformation into undying shades themselves. When folk of other lands refer to “the Netherese,” they mean the people of Shade, both human and shadow-transformed.
The main issue I have is that it sort of limits what can be done in Netheril. Evil Empires are all well and good but there's all manner of badness that can be done in Cormyr while it still being a "point of light." I think I may have enjoyed the old Netheril boxed set too much since it's poisoned me against the solely Shade-dominated Netheril we have now.
Also, give me Zhents and Knights of the Shield scheming to dominate the Realms more than the Netherse any day.
Decades ago, the Netherese subjugated the nomads of Anauroch and many of the savage humanoid tribes inhabiting the desert. More importantly, the Netherese seized control of the wealthy nation of Sembia in the Twilight War just before the advent of the Spellplague, and they have not relinquished it since. Sembia is the crown jewel of the Empire of Netheril, and provides the Netherese with the wealth and manpower they need to bring more of Faerûn under their control. Only the fragile alliance of Myth Drannor, Cormyr, Evereska, and Luruar checks Netheril’s further expansion… and Netherese diplomats and agents work constantly to break the alliance apart.
Dammit, well that spoils the ending of the Erevis Cale trilogy I'm currently enjoying. While I don't mind what Richard Baker is sharing, it does make me know that Erevis isn't going to be able to save his homeland from the domination of the Shade. The Uskervans are pretty much doomed to become tools of the Shade or flee to become minor Cormyrean citizens.
Ultimately, I wonder what this means for the Cult of the Dragon. Is it destroyed completely as of the death of Sammaster? Is it now a tool of the Shade? A resistance? Moved?
While Netheril claims all of Anauroch and the neighboring lands, the Netherese are still few in number, and great portions of this desolate land are left to ruins and monsters. The ruined cities of old Netheril and the Underdark caverns of the monstrous phaerimm (now all but extirpated from the Realms) hold many secrets the shades want to remain hidden, and ancient treasures they seek desperately to recover.[/i]
Actually, I'm surprised in a century of gathering the survivors of Netheril and breeding them like rabbits (plus wouldn't they take in the survivors of Haruula?) that they weren't able to reclaim all of their cities. I am glad that the Phaerimm are no longer everywhere. They were a monstrous blight that really shouldn't have been introduced in vast numbers.
[End Part One]
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 23 Jan 2008 03:41:35
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 03:36:51
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Countdown to the Realms Review
Cormyr is a strong, stable kingdom that has benefited from back-to-back reigns by very capable monarchs. Azoun V, born in the troubling times at the end of his grandfather’s reign, went on to become a just, wise, and long-lived ruler. Under his rule Cormyr quickly recovered from the chaos of the Plague Years. Azoun V successfully resisted Netheril’s efforts to bring Cormyr under its domionion, and he fought Netherese-sponsored Sembia to a stalemate in a war 40 years ago, preserving Cormyr from Sembia’s fate. Late in his reign, Azoun V enacted a new code of laws that restrained the power of Cormyr’s restless nobility and established rights for commoners oppressed by nobles. His son Foril is now king of Cormyr.
Honestly, this rather sidesteps the fact that I never liked Azoun the Fifth. His mother and Alusair were amongst the best characters in Forgotten Realms while he was also living in the shadow of his father. Still, I like to think that Alusair and Caladnei are trapped in a Stasis Bubble with Vangerdahast somewhere.
The bit about establishing rules for the protection of commoners from the wrath of nobles is a Big theme in Imperial Comyr since they mentioned it in Guide to the Realms, to be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure why that is since Cormyr has never really come off as a center of vast noble oppression.
The nobles are :censored: yes but not causal exploiters of Ye Common ManTM.
Foril has ruled for 30 years now, and while he is not the legendary warrior his great-grandfather was or the brilliant law-giver his father was, he is a shrewd statesman and administrator. Foril continued his father’s reforms, and authored the alliance of powers that keeps Netheril at bay. Standing between Sembia and Netheril, Cormyr’s best security lies in firm alliance with Myth Drannor and the Dalelands. Cormyr is wealthier and more powerful than it’s been in centuries, largely due to the foresight and determination of the Obarskyrs.
It's interesting that Floril's character is immediately introduced to us by saying he's not nearly as good as the original King of Cormyr or the man that came before him that we never met. It's an interesting take for what amounts to our first introduction to the "new" Forgotten Realms.
I'm a bit disappointed it's another King *yawn* and not a Queen, though. Maybe Waterdeep will have a FEMALE Piergerion this time.
Nevertheless, I'm glad Cormyr is at it's 1E heights again.
Cormyr now controls Daerlun and Urmlaspyr, two formerly Sembian cities that managed to break away from that realm before the Netherese yoke settled completely over them. During the chaos of the Spellplague and the years that followed, the small cities on the southern shore of the Dragonmere turned to Cormyr for protection. Only ten years ago, the thief-ruled city of Proskur proved so obnoxious to the Forest Kingdom’s growing trade and prosperity that King Foril brought it under Cormyr’s authority as well. Not all of these territories are content under Cormyrean rule.
Honestly, Imperial Cormyr isn't that much bigger as near as I can tell. When I first heard about it, I had assumed that it had annexed possibly the whole of the Dalelands or had finally conquered Sembia (which would have made it an Empire and ruined any chance for Zhentil Keep to oppose it). This is, in my opinion, a slightly larger Cormyr rather than an Empire.
If it has Maztican colonies and has taken over the Moonshaes, then we can talk Empire. Still, it's interesting to speculate that Proskur might have become the new Arabel (rebellious hot-seat of disconnect and murder).
Adventurers in the service of the Crown find plenty of excitement in the Stonelands, the Tunlands, and the Stormhorns, where various monsters and savage tribes (some secretly sponsored by Netheril) cause no small amount of trouble.
Oh for :censored: sake! :nonono:
This is where Richard and the designers of the Realms are clearly preserving the "Classic" adventuring areas of the Realms but I am rolling my eyes nevertheless. It's 100 years later and adventurers are still trying to tame the Stonelands. Really, I'm annoyed there's been no mention of the Zhents so far since frankly, I could care less about the Netherese compared to the Black Network.
But this goes to show you how canon will always diverge from individual games since the Stonelands have been settled in my games for a decade now.
Along the shore of the Alamber Sea, old Unther was swept away by a catastrophic outbreak of the Spellplague. Where once ancient Unther stood now stands an arid mesa-land inhabited by draconic humanoids calling themselves dragonborn. This is the realm of Tymanther. The dragonborn have proven to be a proud, martial race, and in the decades since the Year of Blue Fire they have slowly tamed the ruined changeland from the Riders to the Sky all the way to the Black Ash Plain.
Unther is one of the *quote* *unquote* Big Changes here. I imagine that Ed Greenwood's section of the FCS4E will be the Heartlands, because Ed Greenwood :love: the Heartlands and we can expect him to do a bang-up job with the favorite place of all Faerunian adventurers. However, Unther and the other distant regions seems to be the subjects of the most radical re-invisionings.
Tymanther is not too deeply decsribed here but there's some hints of what it is. Frankly, there's no indication about the Untherese themselves (thanks to R_F for pointing this out to me) when I initially assumed they'd be the slaves of the Dragonborn. One thing, the Dragonborn are said to be a "proud martial race" so it's possible they'll be LE types.
Ultimately, I'm not sure whether a city of Draconians really interests me. What exactly is their function and how do they relate to the rest of Faerun, really? The Thayans are always plotting evil, do these guys have any ambition or the portals to dominate the whole of Faerun? What makes them interesting?
What motivated Richard Baker to say "I want The City of the Lizard Men." (which would make a good module title)
Some say that the dragonborn are creations of Tiamat, hatched from vast incubators hidden beneath temples of the dragon-goddess in the cities of Unther. Others believe that the dragonborn are descended from the human population of the old empire, changed by the touch of the Spellplague into something no longer human. But the truth of the matter is even stranger: As it did in many other places in Faerûn, the Spellplague opened the door to some other realm entirely, wrenching the aeries and castles of the dragonborn from their native land—wherever that once was—and depositing them amid the chaos of devastated Unther.
Personally, they're clearly trying to make us interested in the Dragonborn. I'm not sure that I honestly am that interested in the origins presented here. Though, the prospect of all of the Untherese being turned into Dragonkind is a bit strange and I think could well be an iteresting novel-series. The Spell Plague opening a door to another world is a bit too "Dragonlance" even if there's a lot of that going around (The Mulhorandi and Orc's origins for example)
The dragonborn of Tymanther are highly militarized, and the “lords” of the land are those dragonborn who have proven themselves capable of leading their fellows. It is a harsh and unforgiving meritocracy, and each of the kingdom’s great clans is organized more like an army than a noble house. In the world from which they came, the dragonborn fought many terrible wars against true dragons, and they still harbor an ancestral hate for the winged wyrms.
I'm not sure this is a good decision to be honest. if you're going to have a bunch of Tiamat worshiping Part-Dragons, then do you really want them hating Dragons? You might as well make them outright Lizardmen.
Tis a pity, I was hoping this would be the Cult of the Dragon's new home.
Tymanther lies atop the rubble of ancient Unther, and Untheric ruins are common throughout the land. Even in its decline, Unther was a rich and populous land, and many palaces and treasure vaults of the God-King’s favorites still wait to be discovered. In other places, broken cities carried into Faerûn from Tymanther’s appearance are likewise storehouses of gold, gems, and magical artifacts. Unfortunately, many powerful monsters settled into these Untheric and Tymantheran ruins during the Plague Years, and still pose a deadly threat to those who delve too deeply.
Unther is now officially a "lost civilization" but it's interesting to wonder what exactly great stores of loot they're supposed to have. Unther was pretty much looted completely as far as I could tell. But yes, I'm concerned what happened to the enslaved people of Unther and where they are now.
Also of concern is what's happened to the surrounding territories and their population for this new and vast Lizardman Kingdom. Mulhorandi wasn't really that interesting to me but I think we'd be losing a great deal of diversity if it's just now part of the Lizardman Kingdom.
Ultimately, I hope they do something interesting with Mulhorandi though since I was most interested in it when it started conquering Unther.
This brief discussion touches on only a few of Faerûn’s myriad kingdoms and peoples. It’s a quick sketch of how a century has changed several familiar lands, and a look at one new land that has arisen during that time. Many of Faerûn’s most iconic locales are still what they were a century ago; wood elves still roam the High Forest, and pirates still sail the Sea of Fallen Stars. Other places such as Unther have changed drastically, as described above. But above all Faerûn remains a land of high magic, terrifying monsters, ancient ruins, and hidden wonders—the essential fantasy world for your players to explore.
This part of the article seems devoted to the idea of reminding us that most of the place will still be the same. Fundamentally, this is a good reminder that D&D is still a game about THIS...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goedL4v0eoo
As long as this describes the Forgotten Realms, then we're alright.
In upcoming previews, we’ll take a more thorough look at other aspects of the new Faerûn—the fate of the Chosen, the nature of the pantheon, how magic has changed in the world, and an introduction to some of the new threats that now menace Faerûn. Good fortune and good adventuring until next time!
I shall be reviewing these as well, if people are still interested in my thoughts. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 23 Jan 2008 03:43:14 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 09:40:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Countdown to the Realms Review
Unther is one of the *quote* *unquote* Big Changes here. I imagine that Ed Greenwood's section of the FCS4E will be the Heartlands, because Ed Greenwood :love: the Heartlands and we can expect him to do a bang-up job with the favorite place of all Faerunian adventurers.
I am not so sure - 2 quotes from THO, the first was in response to a question about Sossal (Sossrim), the second was just an addedum to Ed's reply
Uh, oh. Busted.
Seriously, Ed is in NDA territory here, and can't, I'm afraid, say anything much about the Great Spire now.love,
THO
So saith Ed. Who seems to be hinting rather broadly. And who tells me (sounding happy) that he just finished “detailing a land no one has ever seen before” (presumably for the 4e Realms). I’m starting to get the old excitement back . . .
Love to all,
THO
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 14:00:23
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Great review, thanks Charles.
> Pockets of “live” Spellplague still exist in a few places known as plaguelands; one of the largest is a vast waste known as the Changing Lands, where Sespech and Chondath used to be. Few people dare to enter such places, but from time to time they disgorge horribly mutated monsters, tormenting the lands nearby.
Sounds very Mournlands/Eberron to me…I can see Living Spells being a feature of these places.
> The main issue I have is that it sort of limits what can be done in Netheril.
Agreed, they are kinda cool but too same-same to be of use, and makes Netheril just a bit too different to be a usable location for infiltration etc. Another Eberron ref: if the Shade are to be the powerful magical minority in their lands, I keep getting quori/Sarlona in my head…
Shame to see Sembia go, but TSR/WotC never really sorted out what to do with Sembia: luckily for us the Sembia novels gave us that great insight into the character of the realm and its (powerful) people.
> Only the fragile alliance of Myth Drannor, Cormyr, Evereska, and Luruar checks Netheril’s further expansion…
My concern here is that this one political topic may dominate too much of the word count in 4e Realms accessories.
> However, Unther and the other distant regions seems to be the subjects of the most radical re-invisionings.
That was always going to be the case: the designers were always going to get less flak by destroying the remnants of Unther vs a ‘core’ realm like Cormyr.
> Unther…What motivated Richard Baker to say "I want The City of the Lizard Men."
Dragonborn are a core race in 4e, so I guess the designers thought they needed a home in FR. A bit too Dragonlance draconian for my liking: I would prefer them as oddities with a range of backgrounds those in the various 3e references on dragon-related species & classes.
Personally I think the ‘door to another world’ thing has been done to death in that part of the Realms, but I guess it at least gels with the history of the Old Empires/East (whispers of the Imaskari). I like the idea that the Untherites were the seedstock of the dragonborn: it justifies where they went and means we don’t have a whole nation wanting to go home.
Cult of the Dragon? Whatever, note my favourite baddies…
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 14:34:47
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I'm taking a bit of time to see what comes out next. I'm still not too keen on the whole "no chronology can every be put together" concept. There's a reason I'm going to keep all my 3.5 books around. :-) I'm also not too keen on the zotching of Mystra. Especially since that's what the whole Mega-Adventure is designed to prevent. Nothing quite like being told "Congrats! You've postponed the inevitable!"
Glad that Cormyr's ok, though Sembia's where I had a number of games happening, which means I'll have to sit down and look some things over when the new book comes out. Running a Zorro-esque game there now may be even more interesting, though.
In the end, as I've said before:
This could be REALLY Awesome! Or it could suck worse then a Mind Flayer on a binge at a MENSA convention. Brrains!!!! |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
Edited by - ShepherdGunn on 24 Jan 2008 14:46:20 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 15:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Shilo99
My concern here is that this one political topic may dominate too much of the word count in 4e Realms accessories.
Indeed.
quote:
Dragonborn are a core race in 4e, so I guess the designers thought they needed a home in FR.
It was inevitable that the dragonborn would be in 4E FR, as it was stated that all core races would be in all settings (or something to that effect?). But I don't think they *needed* to get rid of one human realm to plop them in like that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 17:04:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
It was inevitable that the dragonborn would be in 4E FR, as it was stated that all core races would be in all settings (or something to that effect?). But I don't think they *needed* to get rid of one human realm to plop them in like that.
I also do not understand why they had to pull them from another world, when they had already given them a place in Faerun in Dragons of Faerun. It would have made more sense for them to just come up with a reason why they were now fertile and a race unto themselves instead. Also, I find it hypocritical that they complained about having to many cultures/peoples enter the Realms from other worlds and then decided that the Dragonborn came from another world.  |
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"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 22:09:47
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quote:
Amnite merchant-lords control much of the large island of Gwynneth, while the warlike Northlanders hold Oman and Norland. The Feywild, the realm of Faerie, lies close to Faerûn here, and from its shadows a dire new threat is gathering—the terrible fomorians, who dream of sweeping away the human kingdoms and subjugating the islands beneath their mighty fists.
Woohoo ... here's to the people who like their Celtic mythology! In with the formorians again! Will the Fenians and the Tuatha de Danan be next? And chop the Egyptians, but keep the Vikings!  |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 24 Jan 2008 22:13:00 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 16:07:45
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Re: Khelben's heir impersonating him...
It was the case that Tsarra kept up the charade for two decades before her cover was blown. Then, as expected, all manner of enemies crawled out of the woodwork to attack her/Waterdeep, thinking she'd be easy pickings and Blackstaff Tower would be theirs. They were wrong. 
There's a few more Blackstaffs after Tsarra, but to say more would violate my Blackstaff Tower NDA, so I'll slip back into the shadows. |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 16:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Re: Khelben's heir impersonating him...
It was the case that Tsarra kept up the charade for two decades before her cover was blown. Then, as expected, all manner of enemies crawled out of the woodwork to attack her/Waterdeep, thinking she'd be easy pickings and Blackstaff Tower would be theirs. They were wrong.
Can I say major pwnage?  |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 16:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Re: Khelben's heir impersonating him...
It was the case that Tsarra kept up the charade for two decades before her cover was blown. Then, as expected, all manner of enemies crawled out of the woodwork to attack her/Waterdeep, thinking she'd be easy pickings and Blackstaff Tower would be theirs. They were wrong.
There's a few more Blackstaffs after Tsarra, but to say more would violate my Blackstaff Tower NDA, so I'll slip back into the shadows.
Wow, I'm surprised you could even say THAT much. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 17:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
It was inevitable that the dragonborn would be in 4E FR, as it was stated that all core races would be in all settings (or something to that effect?). But I don't think they *needed* to get rid of one human realm to plop them in like that.
I also do not understand why they had to pull them from another world, when they had already given them a place in Faerun in Dragons of Faerun. It would have made more sense for them to just come up with a reason why they were now fertile and a race unto themselves instead. Also, I find it hypocritical that they complained about having to many cultures/peoples enter the Realms from other worlds and then decided that the Dragonborn came from another world.
As best I can tell the dragon born of _Dragons of Faerun_ are not the same as Dragonborn in 4th Edition.
Perhaps the 3.5 Dragonborn died during the Spellplauge?
So a different race called the same name came into the Realms. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 18:19:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As best I can tell the dragon born of _Dragons of Faerun_ are not the same as Dragonborn in 4th Edition.
Perhaps the 3.5 Dragonborn died during the Spellplauge?
So a different race called the same name came into the Realms.
Anyway you look at it, it is yet another example of the sloppy work that WotC has done with the 4e Realms. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 18:42:19
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As best I can tell the dragon born of _Dragons of Faerun_ are not the same as Dragonborn in 4th Edition.
Perhaps the 3.5 Dragonborn died during the Spellplauge?
So a different race called the same name came into the Realms.
Anyway you look at it, it is yet another example of the sloppy work that WotC has done with the 4e Realms.
They should have, at the least, come up with another name for the 4E dragonborn. Not only would it have been less confusing, but it would have made more sense for the race. Because, if you think about it, if they hate and war against dragons, then why is "dragon" part of the name of their race?  That would be like the kir-lanan calling themselves "godborn". |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 20:12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Perhaps the 3.5 Dragonborn died during the Spellplauge?
So a different race called the same name came into the Realms.
Very unlikely, given the fact that the "real" dragonborn are a creation of the Lord of the Northwind who has already revived this extinct and forgotten race once with the planting of the Tree-Gem. Since the Justicebringer will be in 4th ed and even be promoted to God of All Paladins, it is very likely that a steady flow of new dragonborns(TM) is secured even if the old generation dies in the spellplague. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 23:30:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They should have, at the least, come up with another name for the 4E dragonborn. Not only would it have been less confusing, but it would have made more sense for the race. Because, if you think about it, if they hate and war against dragons, then why is "dragon" part of the name of their race? That would be like the kir-lanan calling themselves "godborn".
Well, the "core" dragonborn aren't said to hate dragons or war with them (Races and Classes states that dragonborn were created along with dragons, and they happily served their larger "kin"). However, your point is still well-taken, since it kind of implies that they were literally born of dragons (like half-dragons) when that wasn't really the case, unless you count draconic gods as dragons. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Jan 2008 23:31:36 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 01:17:32
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| Dragonborn likely have a name for their race in their own tongue. Halflings don't call themselves halflings after all; they're hin. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 03:22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Dragonborn likely have a name for their race in their own tongue. Halflings don't call themselves halflings after all; they're hin.
Even if they don't call themselves that, it's still an odd name. "Oh, those lizardy guys that hate dragons? Yeah, we just call them dragonborn." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 03:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Dragonborn likely have a name for their race in their own tongue. Halflings don't call themselves halflings after all; they're hin.
I understand race names are design lables, Meta Knowledge as oposed to character knowledge. Elves after all do not call themselves elf, at best when speaking common they might just discribe themselves as elf as a short hand term.
The dragonborn though offers the problem of what occurred , are there now two groups (very different) that are now called dragonborn?
Oh next time you contact your brothe you might let him know SKR is using ezboards for now. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Countdown to the Realms Review
