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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 23:41:40
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And this from THO:-
"Correct. Jeff did create and name Waukeen, and did name "the planet" Abeir-Toril.
The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one.
TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead.
love,
THO"
...
And this from Jeff:-
"I remember mentioning elsewhere that the Abeir-Toril title means "cradle of life" in an archaic tongue. While I never stated which was which, I always assumed that "toril" was the word for life and "abeir" was the word for originator, cradle, or home.""
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 13:27:14
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| The new Realms will make it easier for any writer to jump in right away without having to read up on much history. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 03:36:13
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errrrr... nevermind. 
I like that Maztica is getting an overhaul (in a major way) - it was the one region that never fit well, and had little going for it becuase of its horrendously derivitive history. The other 'odd' areas, like Kara-Tur and Zakhara, had their own problems, but the were easily fixable.
Another thing I like is that they broke Chult away from Faerûn proper - I'm not happy that they nuked Halruaa to do it, but I never liked the fact that an area so intrinsicly different from the rest had no natural boundaries seperating it. Plus, as an old Greyhawk player, I always felt that Hepmonland was done right, and it appears this is what Chult will become (especially with Maztica vanishing).
Cormyr growing in power and stability seems to be one of the few things that have evolved along much more 'normal' lines, and thats a welcome change compared to some of the more devastating things that are occurring elsewhere. It just seems to be the one thing that would have looked exactly the same weather the Spellplague happened or not.
Thats about it... a very short list, unfortunely.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 15:44:58
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Like most, I see more negatives than positives at this stage (from what's been released and what's been stated by the designers).
Howvere, some positives:
Less civilisation, more ruins and lost empires.
Ed still involved.
Haven't heard anything to say that Eric won't be part of the 4e landscape.
FR was _almost_ the default setting for 4e, indicating that the company sees it has a future in 4e.
Dragon/Dungeon mags will still support FR.
Hmmm...
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Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 15:56:54
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Some positives:
Less civilisation, more ruins, more lost empires.
Ed is still part of the scene, and so is Eric?
FR was very nearly the default setting for 4e, which implies WotC thinks FR is still viable and will be supported in 4e
Dragon and Dungeon mags likewise seem to be continuing to support FR
Hmmm...
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Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 15:59:26
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What is going with me these days?...sorry for the double post all.
Still trying to think up positives for this damned 4e Realms thingy...I'm an optimist! |
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admcewen
Acolyte
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 12:55:20
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| I wonder if anyone has considered the fact that all we are getting is a brief overview of 4th ED realms and that the little detailed pieces (environment, trade & deities etc)that every one is shouting about will be explained in later articles or in the main book. If people are naive enough to think that Wizards are going to explain every single little detail in a single Dragon mag article and not explain them later then what is happening now on the froums is the only result possible. As for me I have my hopes up that all will be explained later and I will judge the changes when I have my copy of the main book, also if you remember the articles on Eberron before it came out said very little compared to the main book (for those who don't have Eberron trust me they didn't). So come on chin up you can't judge something before you try it and have ALL the information, guessing and assuming isn't helping anyone. |
"I am the hippy of calm and I bring you peace"
"Any thing with more than one head is bad" |
Edited by - admcewen on 06 Feb 2008 12:04:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 13:38:57
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quote:
Originally posted by admcewen
I wonder if anyone has considered the fact that all we are getting is a brief overview of 4th ED realms and that the little detailed pieces (environment, trade & deities etc)that every one is shouting about will be explained in later articles or in the main book. If people are naive enough to think that Wizards are going to explain every single little detail in a single Dragon mag article and not explain them later then what is happening now on the froums is the only result possible. As for me I have hopes up that all will be explained later and I will judge the changes when I have my copy of the main book, also if you remember the articles on Eberron before it came out said very little compared to the main book (for those who don't have Eberron trust methey didn't. So come on chin up you can't judge something before you try it and have ALL the information, guessing and assuming isn't helping anyone.
That's been my stance, as well. But even the trickles are highly disconcerting. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 09:33:48
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
The only things I can think of (my view may change after seeing the FRCG) is that Ed and Brian are working on the FRCG and working hard to make it useful and enjoyable for both the 'old guard' and for new players,
We shall see.. in time...!!! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 23:09:36
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| From flipping through the two 4E preview books, I'm in favor of most (though not all) of the flavor changes they are making to D&D. I love the new cosmology and almost everything I've seen about it. If it means we get to see Faerie (with the FR crossroads)/Feywild and Shadow/Shadowfell better developed all the better. I also love the points of light concept. In any case, while I am very very concerned about some of the possible changes and what I fear may be some over-homogenity and over-simplification, I am excited to see how will 4E concepts will be applied to FR. I'm also hopefull that some of the inconsistencies in the Realms will be addressed (such as the oddball spread of Arab/Muslim cultures from Amn to Turmish to Anauroch to Zakhara etc.) without hopefully just invalidating them. Likewise, I look forward to a better spread of NPC power levels and fewer uber-NPCs. |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 03:14:53
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| I am thankful for the fact that the way it has been depicted to us, magic not dependant upon the weave (older arcane ways of Mulhorand, Elven magic, Dragon Magic, etc) and that which is the product of the caster's own provenance (gifts of the Warlock, magically-descended sorcerers, and elemental scions) will be largely unaffected as compared to the bulk of casters. I plan on running my games in 4eFR as such. Further, if this reasoning holds true, my multiclassed dragon prophet will still be alive when 4eFR begins. |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 08:11:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's been my stance, as well. But even the trickles are highly disconcerting.
I've been holding this very unpopular position as well at Enworld, on the WoTC boards, and here.
I agree with you and the quoted poster completely. Granted, some of the stuff is....jarring, but it's unfair to judge it based on a few previews alone.
For instance, I HATED the previews of Eberron, and it wasn't until I was dragged kicking and screaming into a game, that I actually found out it was a very, very good setting. I'm willing to wait until August to make sure I don't make that mistake again. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 15:35:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wilson
For instance, I HATED the previews of Eberron, and it wasn't until I was dragged kicking and screaming into a game, that I actually found out it was a very, very good setting. I'm willing to wait until August to make sure I don't make that mistake again.
That doesn't apply to me... I was intrigued by some of the stuff about Eber-whatsit, even from the beginning. It's just that the overall setting hasn't grabbed me. So what they're doing to the Realms is not the same scenario, for me. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 22:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
From flipping through the two 4E preview books, I'm in favor of most (though not all) of the flavor changes they are making to D&D. I love the new cosmology and almost everything I've seen about it. If it means we get to see Faerie (with the FR crossroads)/Feywild and Shadow/Shadowfell better developed all the better. I also love the points of light concept.
I like many of the general 4E core concepts, myself, although I'd prefer to use them in a new setting rather than shoehorn into my Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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TwigB
Acolyte
South Africa
46 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 22:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
From flipping through the two 4E preview books, I'm in favor of most (though not all) of the flavor changes they are making to D&D. I love the new cosmology and almost everything I've seen about it. If it means we get to see Faerie (with the FR crossroads)/Feywild and Shadow/Shadowfell better developed all the better. I also love the points of light concept. In any case, while I am very very concerned about some of the possible changes and what I fear may be some over-homogenity and over-simplification, I am excited to see how will 4E concepts will be applied to FR. I'm also hopefull that some of the inconsistencies in the Realms will be addressed (such as the oddball spread of Arab/Muslim cultures from Amn to Turmish to Anauroch to Zakhara etc.) without hopefully just invalidating them. Likewise, I look forward to a better spread of NPC power levels and fewer uber-NPCs.
I feel a tad uninformed so would someone please explain the "Points of Light" concept. I've been seeing frequent references to this concept but I'm in the dark as to what it means. |
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SiCK_Boy
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 22:04:53
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| Grosso modo, it means the heroes live in a world where there are a few civilised area surrounded by dangerous and unknown zones. It makes it so that communications lines and trade routes aren't well maintained between communities, and allows plenty of spaces for monsters and foul creatures to inhabit. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 07:05:01
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I guess my positives is to see how the organizations like the Harpers, Zhentarim, the Iron Throne, etc are working out.
Someone before was mentioning about the fate of Waterdeep and I am hoping they would mention something about the Unseen because in the current timeline, one of the dopplegangers of the Unseen has infiltrated the ranks of the Lords of Waterdeep and I want to know if something happened from that. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 08:08:26
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| I really don´t think that are something good in this process that needed a so drastic change! I´m upset! |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 13:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I guess my positives is to see how the organizations like the Harpers, Zhentarim, the Iron Throne, etc are working out.
Someone before was mentioning about the fate of Waterdeep and I am hoping they would mention something about the Unseen because in the current timeline, one of the dopplegangers of the Unseen has infiltrated the ranks of the Lords of Waterdeep and I want to know if something happened from that.
In one of my Lords of Waterdeep articles (specifically, Sierkan Dahl, Candlekeep Compendium, Volume VIII - April 2007), this infiltration is discovered when the Lords infiltrate the Unseen.  |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 16:51:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I guess my positives is to see how the organizations like the Harpers, Zhentarim, the Iron Throne, etc are working out.
Someone before was mentioning about the fate of Waterdeep and I am hoping they would mention something about the Unseen because in the current timeline, one of the dopplegangers of the Unseen has infiltrated the ranks of the Lords of Waterdeep and I want to know if something happened from that.
In one of my Lords of Waterdeep articles (specifically, Sierkan Dahl, Candlekeep Compendium, Volume VIII - April 2007), this infiltration is discovered when the Lords infiltrate the Unseen.
Well, I had a twisted idea of the Lord finding out, yet giving a deal. For the Mind Flyer-doppelganger member to remain a lord, yet complete under the control of the Lords. Therefore giving the a knowledge of the darkside of Waterdeep and some control over it. I can see either Blackstaffs casting powerful spells to keep him in line.
It could also cause adventures due to the conflicts it could bring up between the Lawful Good Paladins on the Lords and the more practical members of the group. Of course before the capture is made, someone will have to spell the beans about the Red Sashes and who they work for. Causing more conflict, especially if a player is a Lord or is a member of the Red Sashes. (Or even a harper, a moonstar or a paladin of orders linked to those of the Paladin Lords).
Opinions? Thoughts, especially of where this could go post spellplague? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 17:08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I guess my positives is to see how the organizations like the Harpers, Zhentarim, the Iron Throne, etc are working out.
Someone before was mentioning about the fate of Waterdeep and I am hoping they would mention something about the Unseen because in the current timeline, one of the dopplegangers of the Unseen has infiltrated the ranks of the Lords of Waterdeep and I want to know if something happened from that.
In one of my Lords of Waterdeep articles (specifically, Sierkan Dahl, Candlekeep Compendium, Volume VIII - April 2007), this infiltration is discovered when the Lords infiltrate the Unseen.
Well, I had a twisted idea of the Lord finding out, yet giving a deal. For the Mind Flyer-doppelganger member to remain a lord, yet complete under the control of the Lords. Therefore giving the a knowledge of the darkside of Waterdeep and some control over it. I can see either Blackstaffs casting powerful spells to keep him in line.
It could also cause adventures due to the conflicts it could bring up between the Lawful Good Paladins on the Lords and the more practical members of the group. Of course before the capture is made, someone will have to spell the beans about the Red Sashes and who they work for. Causing more conflict, especially if a player is a Lord or is a member of the Red Sashes. (Or even a harper, a moonstar or a paladin of orders linked to those of the Paladin Lords).
Opinions? Thoughts, especially of where this could go post spellplague?
Well, in my article, a guy's mentor infiltrates the Unseen. This guy had previously come to Khelben's attention, and the Blackstaff was already thinking of recruiting him as a Lord. Sierkan going to Khelben with an agent in place was just the icing on the cake... Khelben, meanwhile, kept the news about the infiltration of the Lords fairly quiet. He told some of the Lords, the ones he knew would work with him. His plan was to carefully control what "Nindil Jalbuck" found out, thus using the Unseen to his own ends (before eventually destroying them, of course).
I can see Khelben doing what you suggest, but it seems a bit overt. Khelben is a plans-within-plans kind of person, and he's not at all above manipulating someone. So I see him manipulating Hlaavin without letting Hlaavin know anything was up -- because if the doppelganger knew he'd been found out, then he would start making plans of his own.
I don't think Khelben would have a problem telling the other Lords there is a spy and that they have to be wary of what they say (including about the Red Sashes), but I think that he would keep quiet on the spy's nature and the counter-infiltration that I had come up with. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 17:01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I guess my positives is to see how the organizations like the Harpers, Zhentarim, the Iron Throne, etc are working out.
Actually, one thing I really disliked about the GHotR (yes, I have to say it), was that a whole bunch of entries in the year 1374 (and I think early 1375 DR) were designed to "take care" of the Iron Throne for good...with the hero in question being, of course, an NPC (specifically Dabron Sashenstar).
If I read the entries right (and I didn't think that mini-plot was especially clear about what was going on) the Iron Throne's been disbanded. Too bad, since I thought they were interesting villains. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Feb 2008 17:03:14 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 17:24:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I guess my positives is to see how the organizations like the Harpers, Zhentarim, the Iron Throne, etc are working out.
Actually, one thing I really disliked about the GHotR (yes, I have to say it), was that a whole bunch of entries in the year 1374 (and I think early 1375 DR) were designed to "take care" of the Iron Throne for good...with the hero in question being, of course, an NPC (specifically Dabron Sashenstar).
If I read the entries right (and I didn't think that mini-plot was especially clear about what was going on) the Iron Throne's been disbanded. Too bad, since I thought they were interesting villains.
One of my big gripes about FR writing is the whole "black and white" nature of things. The Zhents are evil! So despite the fact that they are MAJOR traders in FR, despite the fact that a huge portion of their membership are merchants, Zhents are only portrayed as crazy bad guys. Personally, if I were a successful Zhent merchant I'd have tried to create a splinter group, or take over the main group, and get rid of the psychotic spell casters that have been hurting the bottom line since Manshoon first showed up.
Same with the Iron Throne. Once the "normal folk" are the majority and do the everyday duties then the "leadership" is in a very precarious position. If the leadership is taken out, by adventurers, by hired mercenaries, whatever, then you've still got the core group of merchants who still want to do business.
Damn, I'm gettin all Mace-like today (raving and ranting) ;) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 21:12:01
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| Well, you're right--one of the interesting things about the Iron Throne was that not everyone involved with it was evil, or was aware of the more nefarious aspects of the group. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 21:40:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Well, you're right--one of the interesting things about the Iron Throne was that not everyone involved with it was evil, or was aware of the more nefarious aspects of the group.
Makes me think of the Knights of the Shield. That's a group that has great potential but the whole Gargos (I think it was Gargos, maybe it is Gargos still, dunno what they're up to) thing just. . . makes me annoyed. I mean, it'd be cool if there was a small group of Gargos worshipers in the fold, but they shouldn't be steering the ship.
Much the same with the Zhents really.
I was going to write more, but today I am almost totally inarticulate, so I'll wait for a better day. ;) |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 22:15:49
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ShadesofDis, you should read Ed's writings, such as in his Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy (or for that matter, the much older short story "So High A Price"), for portrayals of Zhent traders just trying to get by, Zhentilar warriors ducking when the ambitious young Zhent magelings tangle with each other, and so on. Even with the Keystone Kops elements editing forced onto his early work, thanks to TSR's Code, the Zhentarim are certainly not a "wholly black evil" organization when the creator of the Realms handles them.
love,
THO
P.S. Even more so, if you ever play in a Realms campaign with Ed as DM.
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 00:34:19
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I think that if a writer gives the concept of Alignment too much weight, it nudges him in the direction of treating characters, cultures, organizations, and what have you in simplistic black-and-white terms.
I also think that some of us who are currently writing FR fiction avoid this trap at least part of the time. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 09:29:16
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I agree with the Zhentarim not being completely evil...I've even pointed out to my players that even though King Azoun is Lawful Good, well, he has his own take on things and doesn't follow the strict guidelines of alignment!
Heck, I bet all the Purple Dragons aren't even good aligned! I know that my group of players didn't usually feel all that welcome in Cormyr; and they were all good aligned.
I'm really not a fan of alignment. I think a Code could be used for Paladins and other "aligned" classes and then others could be judged by reputation score or something similar. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 15:05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
ShadesofDis, you should read Ed's writings, such as in his Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy (or for that matter, the much older short story "So High A Price"), for portrayals of Zhent traders just trying to get by, Zhentilar warriors ducking when the ambitious young Zhent magelings tangle with each other, and so on. Even with the Keystone Kops elements editing forced onto his early work, thanks to TSR's Code, the Zhentarim are certainly not a "wholly black evil" organization when the creator of the Realms handles them.
love,
THO
P.S. Even more so, if you ever play in a Realms campaign with Ed as DM.
THO, I think it's largely because of Ed's writings (Particularly the story with Manshoon taking control, involved a poisoned warrior lord and lord chess summoning a gold dragon or something like that *g*) that have made me consider the Zhents as more than a bunch of evil mages and priests to throw at a party. :)
I guess what annoys me about the portrayal of Zhents in most supplements is that the merchants disappear and they're the foundation upon what everything else is built (IMO, sort of like taxes funding a government)
Heh, I'd actually love to see a plot arch that involved the Zhents getting pretty crippled and then have the greater Realms take a hit when Zhent goods went off the market for a time. Especially if it centered around some Harpers who, through the plot arch, discovered how spread Zhent goods were (through fronts and the like, since some places don't like those Zhent goods) and what impact disrupting the Zhent trade machine has. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2008 : 15:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I think that if a writer gives the concept of Alignment too much weight, it nudges him in the direction of treating characters, cultures, organizations, and what have you in simplistic black-and-white terms.
I also think that some of us who are currently writing FR fiction avoid this trap at least part of the time.
I tend to agree Richard. With both parts.
I think the "big problem" that I see with things written for the Realms is that there seems to be some major disconnects in the "undercurrents" of various works. In other words, I think that some of the reasons for the things that happen in some authors stories conflict with the reasons for another authors stories (or game supplements). Or, at least, I think that's part of what I see.
Which isn't to say that everything is terrible and the sky is falling, just in case that's the impression I'm giving. ;) |
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Positive things about the New Realms
