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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jan 2005 : 19:11:23
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| Kossuth is neutral in his entry on page 35 of F&P. Paladins cannot take as patrons any deities that have alignments other than LG, LN, or NG. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2005 : 20:07:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Kossuth is neutral in his entry on page 35 of F&P. Paladins cannot take as patrons any deities that have alignments other than LG, LN, or NG.
Hmm however there are exceptions.
First this "Kossuth Power: Greater deity
Title: The Lord of Flames, the Firelord
Alignment: N
Worshipers: Any Alignment
Clerics: LG, NG, LN, N, LE, NE"
A Greater power has greater latitude to what they can do and have.
"SunePower: Greater deity
Title: Firehair, Lady Firehair
Alignment: CG
Worshipers: LG, NG, CG, LN, N, CN
Clerics: LG, NG, CG, LN, N, CN"
Sune however does have Paladins in her service and she is further away then Kossuth from LG.
In addition to Mr. Reynolds opinion, Garen Thal offered this.
" Kossuth, while he can be treated as LN for the purpose of who may follow him, leans a bit more toward evil than he does toward good (keep in mind, this is a being that thinks the return of Bane is a good thing). Paladins will, at best, be rare for this deity, when compared to more wholly neutral or slightly good LN deities (such as Helm or Kelemvor)."
One certainly can rule that neither Sune nor Kossuth can have Paladins, however there is at least some support that both can have them.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 04:21:25
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Sune is a very specific exception that has been in the rules since the start. There is a reason for that, though I don't know if this is the official one: that many followers of Sune get out of control, and need strong lawful guides. Even so, paladins of Sune focus more on the 'good' aspect, rather than law.
Kossuth, on the other hand, has nothing to offer the paladin, so long as you play the paladin as something more than a bunch of stat points. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 05:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Sune is a very specific exception that has been in the rules since the start. There is a reason for that, though I don't know if this is the official one: that many followers of Sune get out of control, and need strong lawful guides. Even so, paladins of Sune focus more on the 'good' aspect, rather than law.
Kossuth, on the other hand, has nothing to offer the paladin, so long as you play the paladin as something more than a bunch of stat points.
Sune has protection in portfile, which also one aspect of a Paladin (or at least should be) despite the steps that need to be taken, the two steps.
Even game designer considers a Paladin of Kossuth, to be one confused. Just permitted by the rules. Not sure why a true N that tends to lean toward evil could also lean to good, but yhose involbed in design believe it as possibe.
My focus, perhaps unfairly was that two step away deity can indeed have Paladins, without looking at the entire picture.
What does remain is why one two step avoids the rules and one that at times can be considered one step can not have advantage of the rules. Oh I should grant that Garen Thal is not listed as a game desigber or even a auther, however will also add that THO appears to indicated that Ed holds much respect for that person.
It does strike me as hard to acept Justice abd Good though fire, though so,e cultires certaibly used sich a standard,
The two step os of more interest yo me, not because pf wither deity in this discussion, though a clear ansqwr would be nice, It is my view that other CG deities can have Paladins, bringing a sense of order. There again alignments also has had bugs and still does.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 05:57:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
It does strike me as hard to acept Justice abd Good though fire, though so,e cultires certaibly used sich a standard,
Well, fire as seen by some as a force that cleanses and purifies... And you can't deny fire's association with light, either. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 06:02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, fire as seen by some as a force that cleanses and purifies... And you can't deny fire's association with light, either.
Sounds exactly how fire is viewed by one religious figure in George R.R. Martin's fantasy series. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 06:23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, fire as seen by some as a force that cleanses and purifies... And you can't deny fire's association with light, either.
Sounds exactly how fire is viewed by one religious figure in George R.R. Martin's fantasy series.
I've naever read anything by him... But I have seen that viewpoint in various novels, and I think (but I won't swear to it) that various real-world cultures have felt the same way (wasn't that the point of burning witches?). |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 06:24:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
and I think (but I won't swear to it) that various real-world cultures have felt the same way (wasn't that the point of burning witches?).
No idea, but that's the real life example that immediately came to my mind. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 06:54:29
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So that's a reason for a paladin to like fire. But not to like Kossuth. Even if he were LN where paladins are concerned, I don't think that paladins would be drawn to him. He leans to evil and destruction far too much for the champions of light and order.
And he's neutral, anyway. Sune being a very particular exception (that, in a certain sense, proves the rule), paladins can only be servants of deities within one step of LG.
Now, a paladin doesn't need a patron deity, any more than a cleric does. So you could have a fire-focused paladin out there, clensing the world of evil by way of fire and bringing light to the darkness of chaos. But that doesn't mean a paladin would like Kossuth. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 08:23:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Kossuth is neutral in his entry on page 35 of F&P. Paladins cannot take as patrons any deities that have alignments other than LG, LN, or NG.
Not always True, Sune is Chaotic Good and she has Paladins.
Edit: Opps, helps if I read everything before commenting   |
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Edited by - warlockco on 07 Jan 2005 08:27:27 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 11:20:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
So that's a reason for a paladin to like fire. But not to like Kossuth. Even if he were LN where paladins are concerned, I don't think that paladins would be drawn to him. He leans to evil and destruction far too much for the champions of light and order.
Yeah, that's true... I really can't see Kossuth having paladins, either. I wonder who decided he could have them, and why? |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 15:11:20
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Sorry for the late reply Hammer.
I don't intend to make the feats available to sorcerors. I felt that the specialisation option available to wizards was both underpowered and didn't encapsulate the feel of being a specialist wizard.
The feats are just designed to add a bit of flavour (and point) to being a specialist wizard. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 23:09:01
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Back onto the Kossuth debate I think it would be probable that there would be Paladins worshipping him.
Holy Fire (being divine rather than actualy fire) is often mentioned by good clerics and paladins, to cleanse the evil as it were.
I also would see a Paladin of Kossuth to be more of an Inquisitorial type, public burnings etc, showing that evil cannot withstand a cleansing flame.
Anyway of all the four elements I'd consider fire to be the most chaotic but what do I know? :)
Now a Ranger of Kossuth, that's the one I can't wrap my head around. What have nature and fire got in common? Even an evil ranger wouldn't burn down trees and animals. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 17:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Back onto the Kossuth debate I think it would be probable that there would be Paladins worshipping him.
Holy Fire (being divine rather than actualy fire) is often mentioned by good clerics and paladins, to cleanse the evil as it were.
I also would see a Paladin of Kossuth to be more of an Inquisitorial type, public burnings etc, showing that evil cannot withstand a cleansing flame.
Anyway of all the four elements I'd consider fire to be the most chaotic but what do I know? :)
Now a Ranger of Kossuth, that's the one I can't wrap my head around. What have nature and fire got in common? Even an evil ranger wouldn't burn down trees and animals.
Air, Fire, and Water are both fairly chaotic Elements.
As to Fire being a part of Nature. Forest Fires are part of the rejuventation cycle of Nature. Its just with meddling from humans, that they have become a hazard to nature itself. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 19:28:29
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I reckon Water should be more neutral than chaotic. It's fairly unobtrusive and generally flows where it should (down), or settles nicely into a container. I'm choosing to ignore the sea, I blame the moon and air for the chaos of the sea.
How many moons does Toril have? Wouldn't the tides be really weird?
Sorry a little OT, just my musings |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 19:53:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
I reckon Water should be more neutral than chaotic. It's fairly unobtrusive and generally flows where it should (down), or settles nicely into a container. I'm choosing to ignore the sea, I blame the moon and air for the chaos of the sea.
How many moons does Toril have? Wouldn't the tides be really weird?
Sorry a little OT, just my musings
Water indeed can be considered more nuetral I would think, though certainly able to cause much damage if directed to do so,
Abeir-Toril has a single satellite, Selûne so there should be no reason to worry much about tides or tidal stresses of more then one satilite. Though as far as that goes the tides hieghts would vary depending on location of two or more satilites. Each would tug a little on the planet, when tugging in same direction, with the sun the tides would be the highest. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 07:06:48
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First, a little trivia: the ancient Hebrew word for water was the same as the one for chaos.
Second, Toril has one major moon; it has minor satilites riding in its trailing Lagrange point, called the Tears. While these have no noticable impact on tides, they are moons.
Now, Krynn's tides would be more complicated with three moons, but still pretty easy to follow; that is, assuming appropriate mass. I know they're different sizes. Eberron's thirteen moons would be something interesting, but without magic to hold them, they wouldn't be close to our moon's size. (Of course, that setting is governed by more outside laws and symetries than other settings.)
Now, since we've strayed from the topic, let's take this elsewhere. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Stormlord
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2008 : 07:12:28
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Greetings,
Sorry for resurrecting such a long silenced thread, but I was talking to my DM today and we wandered onto the subject of "hanging" spells. We began to wonder what the mechanics of such an ability would be.
This is what we came up with so far; but I was wondering what my fellow scribe's and sage's thoughts on it would be.
Hanging Spell [Metamagic]
Your knowledge of the Art and spellcrafting techniques allow you to partially cast a spell and leave the final triggering mechanism to be used at a later time.
Prerequisite: Arcane caster level 1st, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), and Any other metamagic feat.
Benefit: Any spell may be set to hang about your person, it is able to be detected by spells such as detect magic and are susceptible to dispel magic attempts, but can not be counterspelled until they are unleashed.
- Expending a spell set to hang requires a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
- You may only unleash a number of hanging spells per round equal to your arcane caster level divided by 5, rounded up (minimum 1).
- If you choose to unleash two hanging spells in a round it becomes a standard action. Unleashing three or more in a round requires a full-round action.
- You may only cast a number of hanging spells per day equal to your intelligence or charisma modifier, whichever is higher.
- Spells can only hang for up to 24 hours before their energies fade back into the world.
- A hanging spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
As I was typing this, I got to thinking that maybe we were just reaching for something "cool". Perhaps, this idea could just be served with a Quickened Spell or a Delayed Spell?
Thank you for your time and opinions. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2008 : 00:40:48
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| This reminds me of something I read in a novel when I was much younger...Can't remember the name, but it had to do with the Kingdom of Landover. The Black Unicorn maybe. They had hanging spells. Seems a pretty big advantage. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2008 : 01:53:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Stormlord
Greetings,
Sorry for resurrecting such a long silenced thread, but I was talking to my DM today and we wandered onto the subject of "hanging" spells. We began to wonder what the mechanics of such an ability would be.
This is what we came up with so far; but I was wondering what my fellow scribe's and sage's thoughts on it would be.
Hanging Spell [Metamagic]
Your knowledge of the Art and spellcrafting techniques allow you to partially cast a spell and leave the final triggering mechanism to be used at a later time.
Prerequisite: Arcane caster level 1st, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), and Any other metamagic feat.
Benefit: Any spell may be set to hang about your person, it is able to be detected by spells such as detect magic and are susceptible to dispel magic attempts, but can not be counterspelled until they are unleashed.
- Expending a spell set to hang requires a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
- You may only unleash a number of hanging spells per round equal to your arcane caster level divided by 5, rounded up (minimum 1).
- If you choose to unleash two hanging spells in a round it becomes a standard action. Unleashing three or more in a round requires a full-round action.
- You may only cast a number of hanging spells per day equal to your intelligence or charisma modifier, whichever is higher.
- Spells can only hang for up to 24 hours before their energies fade back into the world.
- A hanging spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
As I was typing this, I got to thinking that maybe we were just reaching for something "cool". Perhaps, this idea could just be served with a Quickened Spell or a Delayed Spell?
Thank you for your time and opinions.
The War Weaver prestige class from Heroes of Battle is a five level progression that lets you, in a similar way, cast multiple spells all at once. Moreover, this group of spells not only affect you, but all other party members too!!
It's the ultimate "buffing mage" prestige class. It's unequalled by anything else published in 3.5 (if you take that class, you'll be the mage everyone wants in their party...) |
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Skills and Feats of the Realms
