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Fhaorn quessir
Seeker
Canada
52 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 07:53:22
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I have been getting some controversy from the players Im running from lvl 1-20. They want to make use of "Heroes of Battle" in FR but Im worried about the Chosen getting in the way Alustriel in particular since Im running the campaign in the Silver Marches and later planning on incorperating Anuaroch into it.But one player is a Sentinel of Silvannus, another, an aspiring mage that just bought an out of the way castle and wants to declare war on the city of Sumberton, deem himself Magelord of Castle Greif, then mess with the Harpers and the Heralds at the same time. So war is definatly on the horizon. But Im worried about those pesky cChosen and need some insight towards possible interference.
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Wander ye all to my humble gallery of art of the Realms, Ye'll find it right next to the Sly Wink Alehouse in Sumberton. Or at this page: http://goldendwarf.deviantart.com/
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 09:39:36
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There are a hundred matters that might be of greater importance, diplomatic problems, rumors of Thayan spies at the court or phaerim plots etc. Or she might have been wounded in a recent happening.
Unless the war threatens the Marshes as a whole I don't see Alustriel acting through anything but agents. And unless the characters are present at court or knows Alustriel personally there is little reason for them to know the exact reason; finding this out might even be a mystery plot within the campaign.
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 09:54:01
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Eminster was once imprisoned in one of the Nine Hells and a number of chosen tried to free him, maybe she's off right now doing this.
There also was a strange short story about the chosen including Elminster in some extra plane, which was quite strange in itself, cocooned as they all were, and she might got stuck there for the time being too. Adds a little edge to the plotline too, as her subordinates might be somewhat bemused or in turmoil because of her absence in times of need ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 10:22:48
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| In short: There is no need that the Chosen have to interfere with your party, and there are a thousand reasons which justify that absence. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 12 Jan 2008 15:17:33 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 14:33:04
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*nods*
Just because the Chosen are there doesn't mean they have to act. When you PCs get really out of hand, then you can be the nasty DM and break out the big guns. ;) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 15:58:50
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| Look at it this way: if England was invaded today, would the queen be leading the troops into battle? Or would she be doing queenly stuff to ensure the smooth operation of the realm? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 16:03:02
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I also see no reason for the Chosen to get involved. Alustriel is busy running either the Marches Alliance or Silverymoon, depending on what the time frame is.
I know, I know, the novels make it seem as if she can just drop everything and go save the day, but that's not how things usually happen, which is why a lot of people have issues with the Chosen. They get a bad rap because of how authors use them.
Anyhow, I don't see anything so far that would cause the Chosen to get involved. Now their agents, of course they might but the Chosen themselves, nah, I don't see it. Now, if some of the highly settled cities were to be attacked, then maybe Alustriel might be there as a commander but she wouldn't involve herself in the front lines. Or, she'd send her sons, at least the ones that are trained as commanders like the one that is in the Legion....
Then again, it would make sense for the PC's to also not be on the front lines, if they are the commanders of the armies. :)
But basically, to me, everything your PC's are doing has been done before and the Chosen haven't stepped in to stop it. If they stepped in to stop every war, every leader that took over estates, etc, they'd never get anything done. There's probably double to triple rulers who do those things every day and there's only a dozen named Chosen, that we know of, so they can't be everywhere. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Fhaorn quessir
Seeker
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 18:49:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Eminster was once imprisoned in one of the Nine Hells and a number of chosen tried to free him, maybe she's off right now doing this.
There also was a strange short story about the chosen including Elminster in some extra plane, which was quite strange in itself, cocooned as they all were, and she might got stuck there for the time being too. Adds a little edge to the plotline too, as her subordinates might be somewhat bemused or in turmoil because of her absence in times of need ...
Well I wouldnt likey include Elminster due to the fact hes retired and now generally seems to try and play the puppet master, but you got some ideas going in my head. I just finishing reading "Silverfall" and now have more detailed information on the intriugues that have been going on with the chosen of late. I thought another plan would be to incorperate the high magic ritual that took place on the Feast of the Moon 1374 year of lightning storms when over 70 different important figures were absent and the death of Khelben blackstaff occured which may mean Alustriel is out comforting Learal on her loss. |
Wander ye all to my humble gallery of art of the Realms, Ye'll find it right next to the Sly Wink Alehouse in Sumberton. Or at this page: http://goldendwarf.deviantart.com/
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Fhaorn quessir
Seeker
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 19:43:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I also see no reason for the Chosen to get involved. Alustriel is busy running either the Marches Alliance or Silverymoon, depending on what the time frame is.
I know, I know, the novels make it seem as if she can just drop everything and go save the day, but that's not how things usually happen, which is why a lot of people have issues with the Chosen. They get a bad rap because of how authors use them.
Anyhow, I don't see anything so far that would cause the Chosen to get involved. Now their agents, of course they might but the Chosen themselves, nah, I don't see it. Now, if some of the highly settled cities were to be attacked, then maybe Alustriel might be there as a commander but she wouldn't involve herself in the front lines. Or, she'd send her sons, at least the ones that are trained as commanders like the one that is in the Legion....
Then again, it would make sense for the PC's to also not be on the front lines, if they are the commanders of the armies. :)
But basically, to me, everything your PC's are doing has been done before and the Chosen haven't stepped in to stop it. If they stepped in to stop every war, every leader that took over estates, etc, they'd never get anything done. There's probably double to triple rulers who do those things every day and there's only a dozen named Chosen, that we know of, so they can't be everywhere.
Thank you very much for your insight. I suppose I have given the chosen not enough thought and forgetting that this is a wide world. I havent heard of the chosen opposing to the wars between Mulhorand and Unther, and they do usually have their hands full with Thayans and Zhents. Now the biggest matter will be the Harpers and the Heralds(at least the harpers have lost some members since the forming of the Lords Alliance). See my players' issues with the Harpers and Heralds is a long story. Anyone want to hear it? No? Alright Ill tell it anyway.
Once upon a time there was an adventuring party having lots of pleasant adventures in the dungeons across the Silver Marches. Then they found a frontier nobleman that turned out to be a Doppleganger.They killed him of course but then Fealar, the mage, went and burnt down the lord's 20 man guard force and plundered all his treasure. One of the mages, Elimaran Valinestri, took some of the share and went off to Zakhara. The rougue joined te Shadow theives of Amn, which left two sentinels(pretty much demonslayers) of the order of Silvannus, and our troublemaker(also my brother) Faelar, the Moon Elven mage from the Dales. They all chipped in and bought a nice cozy giant keep called Castle Greif. Then they went off raiding an undergound fortress called Slaughterguarde near the famous Hellgate. They got some more treasure and found out from a Harper scout about the recent appearance in the Underdark of some demonic elves called Valshari (grey elves) from a landmass far west of Icewind Dale. The sentinels talked to the Harper for a while and the mage sat to the side with a grin on his face. Supposedly these Valshari can take on almost a score of drow a peice. So while they are heading to Sumberton (a small city pop. 7500. south of sundabar) Faelar started coming up with these ideas. The Harper had told them to use the amulet he had given one of the sentinels to call a four score of Harpers if they saw a Valshari so the harpers could question the demonic elf. So Faelar figures now what he is going to do is contact the valshari, invite them to Castle Greif, then use the amulet to call in the greencloaks and hold any High Harpers that appear for ransom. Then carry on to lead a battalion of Valshari and magical seige weaponry on sumberton, burn it to the ground, and somehow then send the Valshari legion north while he makes himself the title , Illustrius Magelord of Castle Greif, and watches the fun when the Valshari lead an attack on the silver marches while he watches with his scrying mirror. So basically the Harpers are going to be out for blood, the sentinels dont like the idea but arent the ones calling the shots in the long run, and the Harolds will be ticked when Faelar tries to make his own title and emblem without consulting them on the matter.
But I guess then I can get the DM Big Guns in there which I will certainly enjoy. As long as I get to make use of "Heroes of Battle" in this campaign Im happy. |
Wander ye all to my humble gallery of art of the Realms, Ye'll find it right next to the Sly Wink Alehouse in Sumberton. Or at this page: http://goldendwarf.deviantart.com/
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 20:17:21
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I dunno. To me, I doubt that any High Harper would be that stupid to fall for that "trap." They would spend a days sending in normal Harpers or Harper agents before commiting themselves to teleporting into something that, to me, smells like a trap. :)
But that's up to you but if I was running those NPC's, I'd wonder why the High Harpers would so something like that unless they had a reason why they decided to fall for it and to be held for ransom. If I was going to use the idea, I'd twist it around so that the High Harpers did it on purpose for some purpose that was only known to them.
As for the Heralds. I'd read up on the section that is in Power of Faerun. Again, if it was me running this campaign, I'd have the Heralds start issuing notices that the people of the newly established town has not contacted them for a emblem and because of this the Heralds are asking that trade to the town be restricted by the settlements that are nearby. Of course, when I create a settlement, I work out it's resources, i.e, how is the population fed, where do supplies come from, etc. So, those could be denied to the town until someone comes to the Heralds and discusses an emblem or at least agrees to let a Herald work with the leaders.
But I really don't see the Chosen getting involved. If the campaign is mostly set in or around the Marches, then maybe, just maybe, Alustriel would get involved but maybe behind the scenes with her agents, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Fhaorn quessir
Seeker
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 22:44:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I dunno. To me, I doubt that any High Harper would be that stupid to fall for that "trap." They would spend a days sending in normal Harpers or Harper agents before commiting themselves to teleporting into something that, to me, smells like a trap. :)
But that's up to you but if I was running those NPC's, I'd wonder why the High Harpers would so something like that unless they had a reason why they decided to fall for it and to be held for ransom. If I was going to use the idea, I'd twist it around so that the High Harpers did it on purpose for some purpose that was only known to them.
As for the Heralds. I'd read up on the section that is in Power of Faerun. Again, if it was me running this campaign, I'd have the Heralds start issuing notices that the people of the newly established town has not contacted them for a emblem and because of this the Heralds are asking that trade to the town be restricted by the settlements that are nearby. Of course, when I create a settlement, I work out it's resources, i.e, how is the population fed, where do supplies come from, etc. So, those could be denied to the town until someone comes to the Heralds and discusses an emblem or at least agrees to let a Herald work with the leaders.
But I really don't see the Chosen getting involved. If the campaign is mostly set in or around the Marches, then maybe, just maybe, Alustriel would get involved but maybe behind the scenes with her agents, etc.
Thank you for your help. I am only going by the plans of the people Im running this campaign for. I do own "Power of Faerun" but am thinking about the extent of which the Heralds will get involved. See at first a Herald from Sumberton came by and asked if Faelar knew the regulations of emblems and such. Faelar told the Herald that he knew perfectly well of the rules but didnt see fit to waste his valuable time and money with some dandies that feign authority over him. He also stated if they wanted to oppose him they were putting themselves in danger of death. So Im wondering how hostile they should become toward these actions.
Now the point you made on the Harpers was a very good one. I will still let my brother (aka Faelar) follow through with the plan since all I needed anyway was a reason for the Harpers to attack for some good action. Now that I think of it, they will most likely attack him anyway after they find through scrying that hes trying to assemble an army of demonic elves lead by a powerful cambion. So I think I will use your idea and make it so the High Harpers play it in the background while sending Harper scouts first. But I am wondering on where I may get in depth information on the harpers? |
Wander ye all to my humble gallery of art of the Realms, Ye'll find it right next to the Sly Wink Alehouse in Sumberton. Or at this page: http://goldendwarf.deviantart.com/
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 22:58:19
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Code of the Harpers from 2e is the best book about the Harpers and their allies. It should be available as a PDF at rpgnow.com or paizo's site for around 5 bucks.
How the Heralds would react, I'm not to sure. Hard to answer because we really haven't been given tons of lore about how they react to people that don't use their services, but as I said earlier, if it was my campaign, I'd have them work behind the scenes on removing the supplies, trade partners, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 12 Jan 2008 23:00:22 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 00:25:56
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Fhaorn, in addition to Ed's Code of the Harpers, there's some follow-up details in Cloak & Dagger. Also, Ed and Steven and Elaine's compiled replies here at Candlekeep, Elaine's novels... and the entire "Harpers" series of FR novels and the Heroes' Lorebook and Villains' Lorebook for details on important Harper NPCs and their enemies.
And there's plenty of "Herald Realmslore" in Ed's various compiled reply files. So you might want to look through those as well. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Jan 2008 00:29:21 |
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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 05:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Look at it this way: if England was invaded today, would the queen be leading the troops into battle? Or would she be doing queenly stuff to ensure the smooth operation of the realm?
I don't know, it stirs my patriot heart to imagine Her Majesty packing heat in the front line |
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Fhaorn quessir
Seeker
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 05:51:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Fhaorn, in addition to Ed's Code of the Harpers, there's some follow-up details in Cloak & Dagger. Also, Ed and Steven and Elaine's compiled replies here at Candlekeep, Elaine's novels... and the entire "Harpers" series of FR novels and the Heroes' Lorebook and Villains' Lorebook for details on important Harper NPCs and their enemies.
And there's plenty of "Herald Realmslore" in Ed's various compiled reply files. So you might want to look through those as well.
Thank you very much for your valuable information, and Kuje also.
I am wondering if you know of somewhere other than WotC where I can get the kind of files you stated for free. Im not meaning to sound like a miser, but I happen to be a high school student getting scourcebook to scourebook with an allowance fund. And my parents are superstitious about using credit cards on the internet so there goes downloading from pay sights, however cheap they may be. If not Im sure Ed Greenwood will have some useful information as you said Sage. It is quite an assett to be able to get information from the creator himself, I think Im going to enjoy this sight very much and already have.
Regards to all,
Fhaorn'quessir
(for anyone thats been wondering, fhaorn'quessir is just a fancy way of saying "Sharn") |
Wander ye all to my humble gallery of art of the Realms, Ye'll find it right next to the Sly Wink Alehouse in Sumberton. Or at this page: http://goldendwarf.deviantart.com/
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 06:03:25
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If the files are not from the WOTC site or from other pay sites then any site that you find them on are illegal sites and Keep doesn't traffic in illegal sites. :)
However, Paizo does take checks and or money orders so you could go to their site and still get the pdf. The info is under their help/faq in the upper right corner. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 13 Jan 2008 06:09:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 07:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Fhaorn quessir
I am wondering if you know of somewhere other than WotC where I can get the kind of files you stated for free.
I'd go with Kuje's suggestion for the most part. Though, I should point out that you can download a free PDF copy of Villains' Lorebook from the 2e downloads section on the WotC site.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fhaorn quessir
Seeker
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 17:23:57
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| Alright that is helpful I have looked over piazo and may order some things by check. And thanks for the link sage. |
Wander ye all to my humble gallery of art of the Realms, Ye'll find it right next to the Sly Wink Alehouse in Sumberton. Or at this page: http://goldendwarf.deviantart.com/
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War and the Chosen
