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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 18:02:22
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Okay I was just rereading the FRCS. according to that (going on memory on this one) AO created the two godesses, Selune and shar. they began to fight and thus the Gods came about. why is it that Selune, an Intermediate Diety, is fighting Shar, A greater diety? did selune get demoted by AO, or what? you'd think that the two godesses that were there from the beginning would both be Greater Dieties. I'm just trying to understand this.
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The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 18:21:23
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Well, I've always read that as not as truth but as one of many creation myths. It might be true, it might not be.
However, if you want it to be true, I'd go with what Ed and others have said. Selune's power, like the moon, has waxed and waned. So at one point she could have been a greater deity. And actually during the time of Netheril, at least according to the Netheril box set, she was a greater deity. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 19:11:08
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| What Kuje said. When they actually "fought" things were simplified in terms of light (Selune) and darkness (Shar). It's a whole different kind of fight now, at least I think. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 04 Jan 2008 19:13:06 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 19:27:08
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| I am not sure, but I think in the beginning they were both greater deities. But when Selune fought with Shar, Shar greatly weakened her. When Selune threw a portion of her magical essence at Shar ripping of some essence from her, too, and thus creating Mystryl, she weakened herself to the core, as Faith and Pantheons states, and since then her power waxes and wanes, whereas Shar's power retains much of her ancient strength. That explains why Shar is a greater goddess and Selune only intermediate. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 04 Jan 2008 19:28:04 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 19:34:00
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| Keep in mind that at the end of the Time of Troubles, Ao tied the power of a deity to the number of here followers. So Selune is weaker, at least in part, during her 3e years probably because she had fewer followers. Anyways, Rich has hinted on the WotC boards that Selune may be upgraded to a Greater Goddess again with the death of Mystra (via the reabsorption of some of her energy that had created Mystryl, and then was passed on to Mystra versions 1 and 2). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 20:05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Keep in mind that at the end of the Time of Troubles, Ao tied the power of a deity to the number of here followers.
Well, this isn't exactly true because Ed has said before that there is more to the power of the deities then just their worshipers. So, the power of their worshipers is one part of how much power deities have but it's not the only factor. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 23:18:58
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Ed did say 'Mystra is the most powerful deity of the Faerûnian pantheon, by virtue of the fact that Toril is so overwhelmingly governed, sourced, and powered by magic.' There's no question that worship is only part of what determines a god's power, since the order of most-worshipped gods isn't the same list as most-powerful. Just look at Waukeen, Shar and the other evil deities, Horus-Re, Lolth, and the elemental lords.
Ed doesn't talk much about the inner workings of the gods, about angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin theology which no mortal knows for sure and DMs don't need to know either. The question of what constitutes worship is also largely moot because people tend to pray in proportion to their concerns and activities. For instance, almost all mages deliberately worship Mystra, and probably more than half give her primary devotion, including those of evil alignments, such as Manshoon.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2008 : 00:07:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Keep in mind that at the end of the Time of Troubles, Ao tied the power of a deity to the number of here followers.
Well, this isn't exactly true because Ed has said before that there is more to the power of the deities then just their worshipers. So, the power of their worshipers is one part of how much power deities have but it's not the only factor.
I tried to convey that with the "at least in part" clause in the second sentence, but I thank you anyways for pointing it out.  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Beginning of Dieties
