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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 02:18:44
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hehehe, if I don't vent my tummy gets all upset... and since I have those thoughts anyroad it really doesn't matter...if my brain explodes it will do so no matter what  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 17:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Haha, just been reading your rants, Mace Hammerhand. I have to say, they are very interesting.
On the topic of Mystra being murdered, has there been any information about responses from the rest of the Greater Gods? I mean, I would assume Kelemvor to show some sort of reaction as Mystra was his old lover.
According to the Grand History of the Realms, Cyric was placed under house arrest by Tyr, Lathander, and Sune. That's about all we really know at this point.
He made the nature of the very Planes themselves go Hooplaa! through his murder and all he got was house arrest?
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 18:03:17
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Haha, just been reading your rants, Mace Hammerhand. I have to say, they are very interesting.
On the topic of Mystra being murdered, has there been any information about responses from the rest of the Greater Gods? I mean, I would assume Kelemvor to show some sort of reaction as Mystra was his old lover.
According to the Grand History of the Realms, Cyric was placed under house arrest by Tyr, Lathander, and Sune. That's about all we really know at this point.
He made the nature of the very Planes themselves go Hooplaa! through his murder and all he got was house arrest?
That would be another rant, but, frankly, why bother? The universe just proved to be finite, human stupidity is not... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 19:16:12
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Khorne, I know what you mean...
All the troubles that the gods did to arrest Cyric after murdering Mystra and all they did is keep him trap on his plane.
BTW, I wonder how Shar escaped any prosecution from the other gods... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 02:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
He made the nature of the very Planes themselves go Hooplaa! through his murder and all he got was house arrest?
Yup! After all, Cyric is such an important character, and the designers want to tell new stories about him. Not like Mystra--no, no one wanted new stories about her. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 19 Feb 2008 02:33:10 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 02:34:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Khorne, I know what you mean...
All the troubles that the gods did to arrest Cyric after murdering Mystra and all they did is keep him trap on his plane.
BTW, I wonder how Shar escaped any prosecution from the other gods...
Because Shar is WotC's favorite deity, their darling child.
Yes, that was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but it's sorta-kinda true! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 07:35:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Khorne, I know what you mean...
All the troubles that the gods did to arrest Cyric after murdering Mystra and all they did is keep him trap on his plane.
BTW, I wonder how Shar escaped any prosecution from the other gods...
The Lady of Loss got lost... |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 07:42:49
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Or maybe it's going to be like that situation where Cyric killed Leira with the help of Mask. Mask didn't really get punished for aiding the murder and I suppose this is the case for Shar. I wouldn't even be surprised if Shar has kept this "her secret".
Think about it, if all Cyric got for murdering the Goddess of Magic and throwing Faerun into chaos was just a house arrest slap on the wrist, imagine what kind of punishment they're gonna give Shar for aiding a murder? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 13:47:46
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| Logic has nothing to do with it, and I'm sure that it will all be explained with "you cannot understand the ways of the gods" although in this case it should be noted that Mystra's death had a far bigger impact on everything whereas Leira's death was just something like a footnote and didn't really matter |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 15:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
...whereas Leira's death was just something like a footnote and didn't really matter
What do you mean Leira's death didn't matter??? That was the most catastrophic thing to ever occur, the biggest RSE of all time!!
LEIRA RULES!!!!
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 06:47:21
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| So you still think Leira is dead? The time of troubles really happened? The events of 4ed will be real? You seem to underestimate the real power of mighty Leira ... |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 07:14:34
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And what's AO doing while all of this god-slaying is going on? Wait. Lemme guess: he's bought Hasbro stock in this crystal sphere and hopes to make a killing in the market by destroying the very foundations of the crystal sphere of which he is Overgod.
Ptui!
AO says: "Just say, 'NO!' to New Coke."
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 12:26:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
And what's AO doing while all of this god-slaying is going on? Wait. Lemme guess: he's bought Hasbro stock in this crystal sphere and hopes to make a killing in the market by destroying the very foundations of the crystal sphere of which he is Overgod.
And he probably supports the Eberron line more. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 12:48:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
Considering Shar and Cyric's success in the past, it is not a terrible stretch in any sense to believe they would take down Mystra. It could be Ao's will.
Shar is older than Mystra and has already absorbed three porfolios, and has basically been plotting since the beginning of time - if anyone can figure out a way to nuke Mystra, its Shar.
Too true. Shar is, in my eyes, the sole truly evil and devious deity in the realm, with a neat backstory as well. If anyone would figure out a way, she would. And who else would be best suited to fulfill such a task for her than the god of murder? Well, if you ignore the fact that Cyric has never been anything else but a whiny incompetent lunatic :D
However, what I utterly despise is the way it was done. Cyric and Shar walk into Dweomerheart, and kill Mystra.
Just like that. You know - like if somebody walks into your home and smacks you over the head.
Its entirely undramatic, unbelievable - and absolutly not in character for both the Lady of Loss and the Prince of Lies. I'm not even going into the fact that I highly doubt Mystra could face defeat even against Cyric and Shar as long as they are in her very own home.
I could deal with the changes if there was at least some sense in the way how it was done. But right now, its really just "because the designer sayeth so!" |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 18:45:43
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Although, according to Shar's own creator, Ed Greenwood, Shar can at times be quite foolish and prone to overlooking things (maybe one of the more quote-savvy scribes can get this quote here). Also, going by her stats in F&P, her mental stats aren't that great at all (I think she has a WIS score of 24, which means all other gods are either as wise as she is, or better). Mystra bests her in the mental department and magic-using department.
My point being, Shar's reputation as the perfect-schemer is over-hyped, and definitely disputable. Even if I liked the plot about Mystra's death, I'd probably chalk up Shar's victory to a fluke. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 Feb 2008 18:48:51 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 23:44:56
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You mean Mystra's killed by a whale's flipper?!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 04:52:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
You mean Mystra's killed by a whale's flipper?!
ROTFLMAO! |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 04:59:47
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I still can't believe how Mystra doesn't have a backup plan for this.
I mean, even a king would have a successor or some kind of plan incase he gets assassinated.
BTW, I remember reading somewhere that Shar is preventing the rise of a new goddess of magic. Is this true and is the reason why the spell plague kept continuing? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 11:03:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Although, according to Shar's own creator, Ed Greenwood, Shar can at times be quite foolish and prone to overlooking things (maybe one of the more quote-savvy scribes can get this quote here). Also, going by her stats in F&P, her mental stats aren't that great at all (I think she has a WIS score of 24, which means all other gods are either as wise as she is, or better). Mystra bests her in the mental department and magic-using department.
My point being, Shar's reputation as the perfect-schemer is over-hyped, and definitely disputable. Even if I liked the plot about Mystra's death, I'd probably chalk up Shar's victory to a fluke.
God stats are bollocks, if you ask me. And Shar has a vast advantage over just about all of the other deities - experience.
She's old. VERY old. And she has always been a schemer, not a big brute as the likes of Talos or Tempus.
It just isn't like her to cheaply smack her enemies over the head, and its not very fitting for the Lord of Intrigue either.
Apart from the fact that I still do not believe she is powerful enough to truly destroy Mystra on her homeplane in an actual fight. |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 11:11:12
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I still can't believe how Mystra doesn't have a backup plan for this.
I mean, even a king would have a successor or some kind of plan incase he gets assassinated.
BTW, I remember reading somewhere that Shar is preventing the rise of a new goddess of magic. Is this true and is the reason why the spell plague kept continuing?
It's from the second countdown feature, Magic in the Forgotten Realms. Quoth: quote:
and jealous Shar suppressing the ascension of a new deity of magic,
And as someone pointed out, Shar is not in a position to do that. That's Ao's gig. So that's another aspect of this whole thing that does not follow established Realmslore. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 15:35:30
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How would you even "suppress the ascension of a god" anyways?
I mean, it's not like Shar took control of the Weave and its powers when Mystra died. If she did, then Shar would have even more power now.
Don't tell me she's got the power of a goddess locked in a box somewhere in her dark and spooky bedchamber... 
Or is there something different in this situation? Because usually when a god murders another god, the murderer takes the portfolio of the murdered god, right? However, this time Cyric has been imprisoned by the other Greater Gods so perhaps he never took the powers of Mystra and it's sorta just floating around somewhere...
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"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 16:00:49
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
How would you even "suppress the ascension of a god" anyways?
Well, first you'd probably have to identify the likely successor/successors (maybe Mystra had a backup plan!) and the Goddess of Secrets and the God of Intrigue should be able to do that sorta thing (please, ignore the published actions of these Gods/Goddesses for this exercise *g*). You then, either through allies or through followers, set up kidnap teams to grab up these successors and when you make your move the teams jump the successors. You then put the successors in a prison, probably much like the prison Grazzt used for Waulkeen (oh, I'm to lazy to check the spelling) and I think you've got yourself a fine first couple steps for suppressing the ascension of a god/goddess. :) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 16:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkheyr
God stats are bollocks, if you ask me.
Even if they are (and I'm inclined to agree), so what? They are canon, and fair game to use in this debate.
quote:
And Shar has a vast advantage over just about all of the other deities - experience.
She's old. VERY old. And she has always been a schemer, not a big brute as the likes of Talos or Tempus.
She's as old as Selune, who is an ally of Mystra. Mystra herself is pretty old too (she's effectively the daughter of Selune and Shar, and has a bit of both of them in her)--and there is more to her than just Midnight. And there's no way to measure how Shar's age (and vast experience) make her an effective schemer. You can be old, and used to scheming, and still have tons of failures under your belt.
By the way, Selune also has better mental stats (INT and WIS) than Shar does. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Feb 2008 23:15:18 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 16:38:04
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
How would you even "suppress the ascension of a god" anyways?
When your writings about the setting are canon, no matter what, you decide how things work. Such is the case with WotC--they don't want another Mystra or Mystra-like character.
That doesn't really answer your question, but... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 19:00:41
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| The entire thing is a load of horse-manure, but I already said that. The new Forgotten Realms, to me at least, have become the Forgettable Realms... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 19:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Or is there something different in this situation? Because usually when a god murders another god, the murderer takes the portfolio of the murdered god, right? However, this time Cyric has been imprisoned by the other Greater Gods so perhaps he never took the powers of Mystra and it's sorta just floating around somewhere...
Hmm, when a deity dies, the killer tries to take the portfolio(s), it does not always work. Portfolios have been shared out with some getting a part of the former deity.
In the case of Mystra, there already is a deity that holds Magic (though was only Elven magic) that had the same rank as she did (or will lose, depending on what year you are in) so could very easily step in and take it, or perhaps just transfer to him.
Of course there is still AO out there that clearly can have a say in what occurs. I will mention that SKR made a comment a few years ago that he believed references to AO (or other super deities would tend to disappear, this was appearently a part of 3.0 design team to start to pare down deities. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 22:34:11
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Ya, I guess that's true...
Or maybe Ao did take back the portfolio of magic but just hasn't give it to anyone yet because he hasn't found the right candidate. Also, he knows that if he assigns a new god or goddess of magic, Shar will be waiting to pounce on that and cause another Spellplague/ToT/Super Freakin Edition Changing Event (SFECE). Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 23:16:43
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Ya, I guess that's true...
Or maybe Ao did take back the portfolio of magic but just hasn't give it to anyone yet because he hasn't found the right candidate.
I would think beggars can't be choosers when the Spellplague is ravaging the land. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 23:26:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Ya, I guess that's true...
Or maybe Ao did take back the portfolio of magic but just hasn't give it to anyone yet because he hasn't found the right candidate.
I would think beggars can't be choosers when the Spellplague is ravaging the land.
Ao is apparently on vacation, then, since he prolly could have stopped that, too. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 23:45:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Ya, I guess that's true...
Or maybe Ao did take back the portfolio of magic but just hasn't give it to anyone yet because he hasn't found the right candidate.
I would think beggars can't be choosers when the Spellplague is ravaging the land.
Well, if Ao decides to just give the portfolio to some mortal and say "Here's the power of a deity. Take it and good luck.", Shar's just going to be waiting to kill off this new deity. It's just going to cause another big disaster.
Wooly, I don't think Ao would stop it because Cyric is just acting what is expected of him. I mean, he's the Lord of Murder.
If Ao was going to stop any fighting, it should've been the Tyr and Helm battle, but that's another topic. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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How bloody stupid do they think Mystra is? A RANT
